The 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith

[Hammster]

The 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith

Apparently their are some who erroneously believe that Calvinists cannot be Baptists. I think the link proves otherwise.

 

[now faith]

The 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith

Apparently their are some who erroneously believe that Calvinists cannot be Baptists. I think the link proves otherwise.

What is your opinion on chapter 9-1?

Chapter 9: Of Free Will

1._____ God hath endued the will of man with that natural liberty and power of acting upon choice, that it is neither forced, nor by any necessity of nature determined to do good or evil.
( Matthew 17:12; James 1:14; Deuteronomy 30:19 )

 

[Hammster]

I agree with it in the context of the whole chapter.

 

[JM]

What is your opinion on chapter 9-1?

Chapter 9: Of Free Will

1._____ God hath endued the will of man with that natural liberty and power of acting upon choice, that it is neither forced, nor by any necessity of nature determined to do good or evil.
( Matthew 17:12; James 1:14; Deuteronomy 30:19 )

Simply put...we are sinners by nature and sinners by choice. You can't separate your actions from your nature. Left in our "natural liberty" we sin. This is why we need a new nature, a regenerate nature. Jer.31 tells us we are given a heart of flesh.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

 

[Job8]

The 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith

Apparently their are some who erroneously believe that Calvinists cannot be Baptists. I think the link proves otherwise.

Spurgeon had a hard time reconciling his Calvinism with his Baptistic beliefs. Read some of his sermons and you have to wonder as to why he even bothered claiming to be a Calvinist.

Notice what he says about the good ground in the Parable of the Sower:

The ground is described as "good": not that it was good by nature, but it had been made good by grace. God had ploughed it; he had stirred it up with the plough of conviction, and there it lay in ridge and furrow as it should lie. When the gospel was preached, the heart received it, for the man said, "That is just the blessing I want. Mercy is what a needy sinner requires."

He does not say that God elected this heart, but rather that the heart responded to the Gospel. And that is precisely what Scripture teaches and what non-Calvinists believe. Notice that the preaching of the Gospel brings conviction, and while he does not say so, it is the Holy Spirit who does the convicting. No talk of a predestined elected soul who could not possibly do otherwise. Just "a needy sinner".

 

[Hammster]

Spurgeon had a hard time reconciling his Calvinism with his Baptistic beliefs. Read some of his sermons and you have to wonder as to why he even bothered claiming to be a Calvinist.

Notice what he says about the good ground in the Parable of the Sower:


He does not say that God elected this heart, but rather that the heart responded to the Gospel. And that is precisely what Scripture teaches and what non-Calvinists believe. Notice that the preaching of the Gospel brings conviction, and while he does not say so, it is the Holy Spirit who does the convicting. No talk of a predestined elected soul who could not possibly do otherwise. Just "a needy sinner".

No. The heart was made good so it responded to the gospel. The seed (gospel) didn't make the soil (heart) good.

 

[Job8]

No. The heart was made good so it responded to the gospel. The seed (gospel) didn't make the soil (heart) good.

SPURGEON DOES NOT SAY "THE HEART WAS MADE GOOD". He says God ploughed it with the plough of CONVICTION, which corresponds to Scripture.

Big difference, which also exposes how you would like to manipulate words to fit your beliefs. Manipulating the Word of God is dangerous. Manipulating Bible Truth is even more dangerous.

 

[twin1954]

SPURGEON DOES NOT SAY "THE HEART WAS MADE GOOD". He says God ploughed it with the plough of CONVICTION, which corresponds to Scripture.

Big difference, which also exposes how you would like to manipulate words to fit your beliefs. Manipulating the Word of God is dangerous. Manipulating Bible Truth is even more dangerous.

I have to wonder how many of the 66 volumes of Spurgeon's sermons have you read? Over the years I have read all that Spurgeon wrote. He was a thorough Calvinist until the day he died.

 

[Hammster]

SPURGEON DOES NOT SAY "THE HEART WAS MADE GOOD". He says God ploughed it with the plough of CONVICTION, which corresponds to Scripture.

Big difference, which also exposes how you would like to manipulate words to fit your beliefs. Manipulating the Word of God is dangerous. Manipulating Bible Truth is even more dangerous.

The ground is described as "good": not that it was good by nature, but it had been made good by grace...When the gospel was preached, the heart received it.


In other words, made good.

 

[now faith]

I agree with it in the context of the whole chapter.

Then I have misunderstood, a lot of statements in the past.

 

[Hammster]

Then I have misunderstood, a lot of statements in the past.

Okay.

 

[DeaconDean]

The 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith

Apparently their are some who erroneously believe that Calvinists cannot be Baptists. I think the link proves otherwise.

I wonder if people have stopped to cinsider that in 1742, the Philadelphia Baptist Association issued its C.o.F., which with a few minor changes, is the exact same wording as the 2nd London Baptist Confession.

The Philadelphia Baptist Association Confession of Faith of 1742.

In 1742, Baptists in Philadelphia, were "Calvinist"!

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[JLR1300]

Trying to say that Spurgeon wasn't a Calvinist is like trying to say that John Wesley wasn't an Arminian. You can always take a Preacher who preached thousands of sermons over a period of decades and find a quote which doesn't line up exactly with the vast majority of what he said. That proves nothing. I have read many sermons by Spurgeon in which he plainly preached Calvinism over and over.

 

[SaintJoeNow]

Then I have misunderstood, a lot of statements in the past.

Spurgeon is much admired and appreciated by independent fundamental Baptists who will have nothing to do with Calvinism or the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith which was compiled by Calvinistic Baptists. If you research Spurgeon's own writings, you can see how he wrestled with Calvinistic doctrines while he boldly proclaimed that he was a Calvinist as it was under Calvinistic ministering that he got saved.

My church, almost every Sunday, includes on it's bulletin an excerpt from Spurgeon's sermons or writings. Many of them emphasize evangelism, passing out tracts, sowing seeds of the Word among fields of lost souls by any means available and praying for God to get through to the lost so they can be saved. If all Calvinists today were like Spurgeon, there would be little contention among Calvinists and independent fundamental Baptists.

Many Baptist churches emphasize enjoying the grace of God in our lives more than they emphasize trying to reach the lost with the light of the gospel. Spurgeon did not encourage that doctrine of "grace". Elevating "grace" as a doctrine, equal to the Lord's doctrine of denying ourselves and taking up our cross to follow Him which will guarantee that the world will hate us and our faith will cost in sufferings, is a teaching which leans toward Calvinism. Spurgeon strongly encouraged every believer to do whatever they can to spread the gospel reaching out to lost souls. Calvinism teaches you don't have to care about that thanks to God's grace for the elect predestined to be saved, and the lost predestined to Hell.

The things that divide Baptist churches in the English speaking world (I'm sure the same divisions are in other languages as well but have nor researched them) 1) Bible versions contradicting the King James Bible 2) Calvinism (the 1689 London Baptist Confession)
3)The modern over-emphasis on God's grace separate from the teachings of the cross in which Jesus promised the world would hate us and we would suffer persecution. 4) Arminianism (which I will not comment about as it is off topic for this thread)

The first three divisive items tie in with each other in varying degrees.


A Calvinist (1689 London Baptist Confession) may be King James Bible only and strong on holiness and separation from the world, but then lean toward the overemphasis on "grace" in which it becomes unimportant to be a laborer in the field for which Jesus said we are to pray the Lord of the harvest that he would send laborers into the field because the fields are white for harvest but the laborers are few.

A Calvinist (1689 London Baptist Confession) may be King James Bible only, but they emphasize "grace" over holiness, so the passages in the Bible which require personal holiness are assumed to be covered by grace. Also, this kind of Calvinist will pass over the Bible teachings of friendship with the world being enmity with God.

Some Calvinists (1689 London Baptist Confession) are multi-version and strong on not being in friendship with the world.

 

[Hammster]

How does one overemphasize grace? That seems like some folks might want to add a bit of works into the mix.

 

[DeaconDean]

How does one overemphasize grace?

Am I not mistaken or did Paul not say that it was grace?

"And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work." -Rom. 11:6 (KJV)

I'm with you, how can you "over emphasize" grace?

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[JLR1300]

Saint Joe Now says regarding Spurgeon...

"as it was under Calvinistic ministering that he got saved."

Not to make a mountain out of a molehill but just to keep the record straight...

... according to Spurgeon He got saved in a Methodist Church on a cold snowy day around Christmas time when a Methodist man was preaching that in order to get saved one merely needed to "look to Christ" for salvation. Go and read his testimony... it is really awesome.

P.S. If you want to know the extent of Spurgeon's commitment to Calvinistic doctrine read "The Forgotten Spurgeon" I believe it is by Ian Murry. there is also a book called "Baptist Theologians' that gives much information. Or you can read one of Spurgeon's sermons called "The Covenant of Grace".

P.P.S. One of the reasons there is often misunderstandings about things like this is precisely becuase Churches have "excerpts" of Spurgeon's Sermons. It is typical for fundamental Churches to only include things that go along with their view and to edit out the Calvinistic parts. Excerpts can be good but reading Spurgeon's entire sermons are better. And not just certain sermons but a large sample of all of them

 

[JM]

The 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith

Apparently their are some who erroneously believe that Calvinists cannot be Baptists. I think the link proves otherwise.

 

[SaintJoeNow]

Saint Joe Now says regarding Spurgeon...

"as it was under Calvinistic ministering that he got saved."

Not to make a mountain out of a molehill but just to keep the record straight...

... according to Spurgeon He got saved in a Methodist Church on a cold snowy day around Christmas time when a Methodist man was preaching that in order to get saved one merely needed to "look to Christ" for salvation. Go and read his testimony... it is really awesome.

P.S. If you want to know the extent of Spurgeon's commitment to Calvinistic doctrine read "The Forgotten Spurgeon" I believe it is by Ian Murry. there is also a book called "Baptist Theologians' that gives much information. Or you can read one of Spurgeon's sermons called "The Covenant of Grace".

P.P.S. One of the reasons there is often misunderstandings about things like this is precisely becuase Churches have "excerpts" of Spurgeon's Sermons. It is typical for fundamental Churches to only include things that go along with their view and to edit out the Calvinistic parts. Excerpts can be good but reading Spurgeon's entire sermons are better. And not just certain sermons but a large sample of all of them

I read Spurgeon's own words where he boasted of being a Calvinist because it was under Calvinistic doctrine that he got saved. I also read much of his questionings of Calvinistic teachings showing his doubts and attempts to reconcile it with Biblical doctrine. Calvinists always want to argue about doctrine and claim to have some special wonderful truth from God that makes them all starry eyed. Spurgeon was an evangelist who many Calvinists today would call a victim of hyper-evangelistic heresay. If all Calvinists were like Spurgeon, they would not be sitting around on their TULIPS claiming to be super-theologians, they would be out in the highways and byways of the world trying to get lost people to believe the gospel and get saved.

 

[Hammster]

Nm