That's why it's called grace.

[Hammster]

"One question frequently stops Christians in their tracks: "If the Gospel alone saves, then what about the heathen in Africa who never heard?" Can God justly convict a man who hasn't heard about Jesus? Some people hear the Gospel and reject it, but most never hear it. How can God condemn them? Christians are ill-equipped to respond because they don't really understand something vital about sin and mercy. Sin brings guilt. Mercy is a gift. Anyone who is a sinner receives punishment he deserves. Anyone who is saved receives mercy he does not deserve and which is not owed him. Think of this question: How could the sheriff send anyone to jail if he didn't offer him a pardon first? The answer is simple. If he's guilty, the sheriff is justified in throwing him in jail. There is no obligation to offer a pardon to a guilty man. The same is true of God. He can justly convict a man who has broken His law even though the sinner has heard nothing about God's pardon in Jesus. God owes no one salvation. He can offer it to whomever He wishes. That's why it's called grace."

Gregory Koukl

 

[JLR1300]

Yep.

 

[Bluelion]

except satan brings guilt not God, God brings repentance. The Law shows us our sin, The Holy Spirit convicts us and it brings repentance not guilt.

I don't know who the guy is but his theory is incorrect if it were so, Jesus would not have gone to those who died in the flood who never got a chance to hear God's Word. Everyone is given a chance, everyone is offered the choice. It is shown by Jesus going back and preaching to those from the flood, and that is why its call The Grace of God, because it is not limited.

 

[Hammster]

except satan brings guilt not God, God brings repentance. The Law shows us our sin, The Holy Spirit convicts us and it brings repentance not guilt.

I don't know who the guy is but his theory is incorrect if it were so, Jesus would not have gone to those who died in the flood who never got a chance to hear God's Word. Everyone is given a chance, everyone is offered the choice. It is shown by Jesus going back and preaching to those from the flood, and that is why its call The Grace of God, because it is not limited.

If you are correct, then why evangelize at all?

 

[PrincetonGuy]

"One question frequently stops Christians in their tracks: "If the Gospel alone saves, then what about the heathen in Africa who never heard?" Can God justly convict a man who hasn't heard about Jesus? Some people hear the Gospel and reject it, but most never hear it. How can God condemn them? Christians are ill-equipped to respond because they don't really understand something vital about sin and mercy. Sin brings guilt. Mercy is a gift. Anyone who is a sinner receives punishment he deserves. Anyone who is saved receives mercy he does not deserve and which is not owed him. Think of this question: How could the sheriff send anyone to jail if he didn't offer him a pardon first? The answer is simple. If he's guilty, the sheriff is justified in throwing him in jail. There is no obligation to offer a pardon to a guilty man. The same is true of God. He can justly convict a man who has broken His law even though the sinner has heard nothing about God's pardon in Jesus. God owes no one salvation. He can offer it to whomever He wishes. That's why it's called grace."

Gregory Koukl

This poor chap must have been dozing off by the time he got to his last sentence for he forgot that he was writing about mercy rather than grace—two very different concepts!

 

[Hammster]

Not really. Grace deals with man's sin. Mercy deals with man's misery.

 

[Bluelion]

If you are correct, then why evangelize at all?

Preaching is just one of many of God's tools to bring His word to people.

 

[Hammster]

Preaching is just one of many of God's tools to bring His word to people.

Okay. But it would seem silly to send missionaries if they will just hear the gospel in hell.

 

[PrincetonGuy]

Not really. Grace deals with man's sin. Mercy deals with man's misery.

Not true!

 

[Hammster]

Not true!

The exclamation point really solidifies your rebuttal.

 

[Athena18]

"One question frequently stops Christians in their tracks: "If the Gospel alone saves, then what about the heathen in Africa who never heard?" Can God justly convict a man who hasn't heard about Jesus? Some people hear the Gospel and reject it, but most never hear it. How can God condemn them? Christians are ill-equipped to respond because they don't really understand something vital about sin and mercy. Sin brings guilt. Mercy is a gift. Anyone who is a sinner receives punishment he deserves. Anyone who is saved receives mercy he does not deserve and which is not owed him. Think of this question: How could the sheriff send anyone to jail if he didn't offer him a pardon first? The answer is simple. If he's guilty, the sheriff is justified in throwing him in jail. There is no obligation to offer a pardon to a guilty man. The same is true of God. He can justly convict a man who has broken His law even though the sinner has heard nothing about God's pardon in Jesus. God owes no one salvation. He can offer it to whomever He wishes. That's why it's called grace."

Gregory Koukl

That's a very interesting concept.
Part of me understands it and another part of me says WAIT, that's not fair!
We are all born into sin. But then again, I don't know about you but I never asked to be born. It wasn't a choice. Not for any of us. So being born into sin wasn't my choice either. Nor is the one who hasn't heard.

I'm comforted that Jesus wants us to spread the gospel to all corners of the earth and that he won't return until ALL have had a change to hear.
That makes me feel more burdened to share my faith.

Here is just a random thought I had...well actually my friends and I had it together. Do you suppose it's possible that Jesus somehow makes himself known to the person dying who hasn't known or understood the gospel so that they can have a chance? I believe Jesus is love and compassion and mercy and Grace. I believe nothing is possible with God.
I know there is nothing in scripture to support my random thought but it seems to fit Gods character quite well.

 

[PrincetonGuy]

The exclamation point really solidifies your rebuttal.

From the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary:

Full Definition of MERCY
1 a : compassion or forbearance shown especially to an offender or to one subject to one's power; also : lenient or compassionate treatment <begged for mercy>
b : imprisonment rather than death imposed as penalty for first-degree murder
2 a : a blessing that is an act of divine favor or compassion
b : a fortunate circumstance <it was a mercy they found her before she froze>
3 : compassionate treatment of those in distress <works of mercy among the poor>
— mercy adjective
— at the mercy of
: wholly in the power of : with no way to protect oneself against


Full Definition of GRACE
1 a : unmerited divine assistance given humans for their regeneration or sanctification
b : a virtue coming from God
c : a state of sanctification enjoyed through divine grace
2 a : approval, favor <stayed in his good graces>
b archaic : mercy, pardon
c : a special favor : privilege <each in his place, by right, not grace, shall rule his heritage — Rudyard Kipling>
d : disposition to or an act or instance of kindness, courtesy, or clemency
e : a temporary exemption : reprieve
3 a : a charming or attractive trait or characteristic
b : a pleasing appearance or effect : charm <all the grace of youth — John Buchan>
c : ease and suppleness of movement or bearing
4
—used as a title of address or reference for a duke, a duchess, or an archbishop
5 : a short prayer at a meal asking a blessing or giving thanks
6 plural capitalized : three sister goddesses in Greek mythology who are the givers of charm and beauty
7 : a musical trill, turn, or appoggiatura
8 a : sense of propriety or right <had the grace not to run for elective office — Calvin Trillin>
b : the quality or state of being considerate or thoughtful

 

[Bluelion]

Okay. But it would seem silly to send missionaries if they will just hear the gospel in hell.

They were before Jesus came, I don't think we need to pretend things were not changed after Jesus came.

The point is still made everyone is given a chance even if means Jesus has to go to hell to give them that chance.

 

[Hammster]

From the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary:

Full Definition of MERCY
1 a : compassion or forbearance shown especially to an offender or to one subject to one's power; also : lenient or compassionate treatment <begged for mercy>
b : imprisonment rather than death imposed as penalty for first-degree murder
2 a : a blessing that is an act of divine favor or compassion
b : a fortunate circumstance <it was a mercy they found her before she froze>
3 : compassionate treatment of those in distress <works of mercy among the poor>
— mercy adjective
— at the mercy of
: wholly in the power of : with no way to protect oneself against


Full Definition of GRACE
1 a : unmerited divine assistance given humans for their regeneration or sanctification
b : a virtue coming from God
c : a state of sanctification enjoyed through divine grace
2 a : approval, favor <stayed in his good graces>
b archaic : mercy, pardon
c : a special favor : privilege <each in his place, by right, not grace, shall rule his heritage — Rudyard Kipling>
d : disposition to or an act or instance of kindness, courtesy, or clemency
e : a temporary exemption : reprieve
3 a : a charming or attractive trait or characteristic
b : a pleasing appearance or effect : charm <all the grace of youth — John Buchan>
c : ease and suppleness of movement or bearing
4
—used as a title of address or reference for a duke, a duchess, or an archbishop
5 : a short prayer at a meal asking a blessing or giving thanks
6 plural capitalized : three sister goddesses in Greek mythology who are the givers of charm and beauty
7 : a musical trill, turn, or appoggiatura
8 a : sense of propriety or right <had the grace not to run for elective office — Calvin Trillin>
b : the quality or state of being considerate or thoughtful

Thanks. Hopefully that was for your benefit.

 

[Hammster]

They were before Jesus came, I don't think we need to pretend things were not changed after Jesus came.

The point is still made everyone is given a chance even if means Jesus has to go to hell to give them that chance.

It's your assertion that everyone is given a chance. I don't think that is remotely supported in scripture.

 

[Hammster]

That's a very interesting concept.
Part of me understands it and another part of me says WAIT, that's not fair!
We are all born into sin. But then again, I don't know about you but I never asked to be born. It wasn't a choice. Not for any of us. So being born into sin wasn't my choice either. Nor is the one who hasn't heard.

I'm comforted that Jesus wants us to spread the gospel to all corners of the earth and that he won't return until ALL have had a change to hear.
That makes me feel more burdened to share my faith.

Here is just a random thought I had...well actually my friends and I had it together. Do you suppose it's possible that Jesus somehow makes himself known to the person dying who hasn't known or understood the gospel so that they can have a chance? I believe Jesus is love and compassion and mercy and Grace. I believe nothing is possible with God.
I know there is nothing in scripture to support my random thought but it seems to fit Gods character quite well.

So are you saying that your sin is against your choice? Or, that if you were in the Garden you would have done better?

 

[Athena18]

So are you saying that your sin is against your choice? Or, that if you were in the Garden you would have done better?

No, my sin is my choice.

That's wasn't my point.

My birth and your birth wasn't a choice. Does that make sense? My false attempt at being philosophical

 

[Hammster]

No, my sin is my choice.

That's wasn't my point.

My birth and your birth wasn't a choice. Does that make sense? My false attempt at being philosophical

Okay. Are you deserving of eternal separation from God?

 

[PrincetonGuy]

Not really. Grace deals with man's sin. Mercy deals with man's misery.

From the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary:

Full Definition of MERCY
1 a : compassion or forbearance shown especially to an offender or to one subject to one's power; also : lenient or compassionate treatment <begged for mercy>
b : imprisonment rather than death imposed as penalty for first-degree murder
2 a : a blessing that is an act of divine favor or compassion
b : a fortunate circumstance <it was a mercy they found her before she froze>
3 : compassionate treatment of those in distress <works of mercy among the poor>
— mercy adjective
— at the mercy of
: wholly in the power of : with no way to protect oneself against


Full Definition of GRACE
1 a : unmerited divine assistance given humans for their regeneration or sanctification
b : a virtue coming from God
c : a state of sanctification enjoyed through divine grace
2 a : approval, favor <stayed in his good graces>
b archaic : mercy, pardon
c : a special favor : privilege <each in his place, by right, not grace, shall rule his heritage — Rudyard Kipling>
d : disposition to or an act or instance of kindness, courtesy, or clemency
e : a temporary exemption : reprieve
3 a : a charming or attractive trait or characteristic
b : a pleasing appearance or effect : charm <all the grace of youth — John Buchan>
c : ease and suppleness of movement or bearing
4
—used as a title of address or reference for a duke, a duchess, or an archbishop
5 : a short prayer at a meal asking a blessing or giving thanks
6 plural capitalized : three sister goddesses in Greek mythology who are the givers of charm and beauty
7 : a musical trill, turn, or appoggiatura
8 a : sense of propriety or right <had the grace not to run for elective office — Calvin Trillin>
b : the quality or state of being considerate or thoughtful

Thanks. Hopefully that was for your benefit.

No, it was for the benefit for those people who are clueless about the grace of God as demonstrated in their posts, and who fail to show in their posts consideration and thoughtfulness toward people other than themselves.

 

[Bluelion]

It's your assertion that everyone is given a chance. I don't think that is remotely supported in scripture.

No name one person God did not give a chance to? I forget the name of the people but with Jonah he was sent to preach to them but he did not want them to repent but God gave them a chance and they did repent. The Babylon king was given a number of warnings and chance by God. But I think the most compelling is satan was even given a chance in Heaven, being dressed in splendid clothing and adored at first. I think it is very much supported that God gives everyone a chance.