Thanksgiving: An American Indian Perspective

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One Voice Among Many1

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pdudgeon

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Well, pdudgeon, you are incorrect. If my memory serves me correctly, I seem to recall you mentioning to me that you had ancestors who came on the Mayflower. If that is true, then I better understand why this discussion might upset you. You are entitled to think what you like, but you are incorrect in your assessment of me and my OP.

there are two things that you are missing in all of this.
The first thing is called conflict resolution.
the only way to resolve conflict of any kind is to make a list of the people directly involved in the conflict.
then draw a box around those names.
on the outside of the box write the names of other living people who can either offer counseling, or offer a solution directly to the problem.

the people on this piece of paper are the only ones who should be involved in the resolution of this conflict.

the second thing to learn is that anyone else outside that box that feels affected by the original conflict,
can be subject to a temptation called righteous anger.
Righteous anger is a feeling of indignation on the part of those who were wronged, and a driving need to seek either
restitution or else revenge on their behalf.

the problem is that there is only one being--Jesus Christ--with a just claim to be included in that box
containing the list of the people involved in the conflict.
The good part is that with Jesus in the solution we are assured of a just solution to the conflict because
Jesus not only knows exactly what happened, He also knows the hearts and the motivations of all the people
involved.

And because of those things, His judgement will be right, fair, and appropriate.
in other words we can safely leave all that judgement and righteous anger behind us
and lead our own lives instead of trying to live all the other lives that went before us,
and over which we have no control.

having no control only adds to the frustration and anger; it does nothing to solve the problem.
in letting such feelings into our life we also add a sense of false guilt that we weren't there to help,
or to prevent the problem in the first place.
And all those feelings that we take on we were never ment to carry.

That's why Jesus offers us the yoke that He has crafted for us, and offers His own help as well
in the wearing of that yoke.
He says that His yoke is light and it is, compared to the burdens that we have put on ourselves due to a false sense of guilt,
assumed anger, and frustration over our inability to control events that werent ours to control in the first place.

So the place to start is by drawing that box around all your problems. and then add Jesus to that box.
 
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LaSorcia

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i agree about hatred being like drinking poison.

That's why we are admonished by God. to forgive. Otherwise the hate festers until that is all one is filled with, and it effects the one filled with the hatred, their loved ones, their households, and taints ev'ry word that comes outta the mouth of the one hating.

It's like a cancer.

I agree with you; you are right. But people don't choose to get cancer. Sometime life hits us so hard, we get injured (spiritually or physically) regardless how hard we fight it.
 
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One Voice Among Many1

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Chiding someone about their pain and anger is easier to do than to actually help them, pray for them, or understand their pain and anger to show them compassion.

 
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brinny

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brinny said: ↑
i agree about hatred being like drinking poison.

That's why we are admonished by God. to forgive. Otherwise the hate festers until that is all one is filled with, and it effects the one filled with the hatred, their loved ones, their households, and taints ev'ry word that comes outta the mouth of the one hating.

It's like a cancer.

I agree with you; you are right. But people don't choose to get cancer. Sometime life hits us so hard, we get injured (spiritually or physically) regardless how hard we fight it.

You are right, 'tis best to avoid "cancer" or anything akin to it, if at all possible (unforgiveness, rage, hatred)

The tragedy is that it hurts the "carrier" of it as the poison of hatred grows, infiltrating the heart, mind, and soul of the carrier of it, and eventually bears the fruit of that poison in families and in entire households.

Profoundly tragic.
 
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katerinah1947

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I have made many friends in the OBOB. There are a lot of people here who show me respect and kindness. And it is these people who are part of the reason why I have decided to come back to my former Christian faith. It was their kindness and their compassion shown toward me that compeled me to reconsider the Christian faith. So, I thought, in the spirit of friendship and compassion, I would share a different perspective of the American Indian on Thanksgiving. I realize what I am about to say may upset some people and cause them to become defensive. I also realize that more than likely I am opening myself up to personal attacks, insults and mockery. I do expect a certain crowd of members to behave exactly like that. However, this thread is not meant to be a personal attack against Thanksgiving or against white people. It is not about spreading hate or white guilt. It is about education and understanding a different perspective other than your own. It is about thinking outside of your comfort zone.

Take a moment to reflect and consider the perspective of the American Indian on Thanksgiving Day. Think about the Wampanoag, the Indian Nation that helped the Pilgrims survive their first winter. Think about the Native American history of this country that makes a lot of non-native Americans very uncomfortable. Take a moment to reflect. A lot of people on this site are demanding that everyone take a moment of silence for the 9/11 victims, but what about taking a moment for all the Native Americans who lost their lives in this country to atrocities and mass murder? What about them? Are they so undeserving of a moment of silence? Are they not worthy of your consideration? Take this for what it is. The truth. You can take it or you can leave it. You can get mad about it and demand that NDNs forget about their past, even though so many Americans insist on remembering events of their people's past or their nation's history (for example, 9/11, Pearl Harbor, the Civil War, and even the Holocaust of the Jews). You can say we are sore losers or even try to justify what happened by insisting that the NDNs fought against each other before the white man ever showed up. Well, if we are going to take that route, then Pearl Harbor and 9/11 were both justified because Americans fought against each other during the Civil War. I seriously doubt many Americans would consider either one of these attacks against the United States justifiable. So, please think before you speak. And if you claim to follow Jesus Christ, then remember how your own words and actions can reflect back on Him, for good or for bad. If we do not remember the history that makes us uncomfortable, then we are doomed to repeat it.

Here are two articles I wanted to share, both are from a Native American perspective.

Happy Thanksgiving: An American Indian Perspective
http://thoughtcatalog.com/terra-tre...al&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Hundreds of American Indians to Gather on Alcatraz Island Thursday
http://nativenewsonline.net/current...ndians-to-gather-on-alcatraz-island-thursday/

For those who do not know, this is Red Fox. If you click on my username, you will see my former handle included with my other information. I will not go into any details as to why I have a new account in this thread. Many of my friends in the OBOB already know my reasons and that is good enough for me. I will not fight about it with anyone.

Hi,

Who is this woman of many names who leaves a trail and always remains.

Who is this woman who hurts so much for those now and those long gone.

Who is this woman my eyes tear up my heart hurts.

Who is this woman.

She is us.

LOVE,
 
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katerinah1947

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I have made many friends in the OBOB. There are a lot of people here who show me respect and kindness. And it is these people who are part of the reason why I have decided to come back to my former Christian faith. It was their kindness and their compassion shown toward me that compeled me to reconsider the Christian faith. So, I thought, in the spirit of friendship and compassion, I would share a different perspective of the American Indian on Thanksgiving. I realize what I am about to say may upset some people and cause them to become defensive. I also realize that more than likely I am opening myself up to personal attacks, insults and mockery. I do expect a certain crowd of members to behave exactly like that. However, this thread is not meant to be a personal attack against Thanksgiving or against white people. It is not about spreading hate or white guilt. It is about education and understanding a different perspective other than your own. It is about thinking outside of your comfort zone.

Take a moment to reflect and consider the perspective of the American Indian on Thanksgiving Day. Think about the Wampanoag, the Indian Nation that helped the Pilgrims survive their first winter. Think about the Native American history of this country that makes a lot of non-native Americans very uncomfortable. Take a moment to reflect. A lot of people on this site are demanding that everyone take a moment of silence for the 9/11 victims, but what about taking a moment for all the Native Americans who lost their lives in this country to atrocities and mass murder? What about them? Are they so undeserving of a moment of silence? Are they not worthy of your consideration? Take this for what it is. The truth. You can take it or you can leave it. You can get mad about it and demand that NDNs forget about their past, even though so many Americans insist on remembering events of their people's past or their nation's history (for example, 9/11, Pearl Harbor, the Civil War, and even the Holocaust of the Jews). You can say we are sore losers or even try to justify what happened by insisting that the NDNs fought against each other before the white man ever showed up. Well, if we are going to take that route, then Pearl Harbor and 9/11 were both justified because Americans fought against each other during the Civil War. I seriously doubt many Americans would consider either one of these attacks against the United States justifiable. So, please think before you speak. And if you claim to follow Jesus Christ, then remember how your own words and actions can reflect back on Him, for good or for bad. If we do not remember the history that makes us uncomfortable, then we are doomed to repeat it.

Here are two articles I wanted to share, both are from a Native American perspective.

Happy Thanksgiving: An American Indian Perspective
http://thoughtcatalog.com/terra-tre...al&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Hundreds of American Indians to Gather on Alcatraz Island Thursday
http://nativenewsonline.net/current...ndians-to-gather-on-alcatraz-island-thursday/

For those who do not know, this is Red Fox. If you click on my username, you will see my former handle included with my other information. I will not go into any details as to why I have a new account in this thread. Many of my friends in the OBOB already know my reasons and that is good enough for me. I will not fight about it with anyone.

Hi,

The days go a sigh passes by

Many days I wish to die

Die is not allowed for me

Still I want to be with He

Thanks giving like America

Is freedom for some but death for others

Is it not so

Were the blacks always free

You know the answers and so do I

What does one do with pain

You do what He did You love that way

Only in dying to self can one be

More like Him

Jesus died. Indians too.

I think both deaths were the same

It is us before we knew before we were changed

Both died to teach us something

One is God is Great

The other is we are not God

My Indian loves my Indian friends

Tell me they are human too

Not saints but people are we

We are people the same as thee.

Do we not belong and have rights

The same as you

Was justice denied. You know the answer

Was theft involved. You know that too.

But Jesus came along. He taught us of Sovereigns

Yes kings and presidents are sovereigns

The do what pleases them on earth it is their right

Our Sovereign does whats right

Someday He will be ours

LOVE,
 
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Sword of the Lord

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Oh, this. Again.

On this Thanksgiving day I am thankful for family, friends, football, food and beer. 'Merica.

I'll feel bad for the Indians when I feel bad for blacks because of slavery. Which will be never because no Indians or blacks were wronged by me, my family, or anyone else living today (in the context of genocide and slavery).
 
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Hetta

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In that case you should feel no compassion for the poor, for injured veterans, for abused children, or for the martyrs of your faith - because you didn't do that harm directly, right? That means that nobody ever should feel any compassion for people they haven't personally harmed. I don't think that's what Jesus said, somehow.
 
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pdudgeon

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I agree with you; you are right. But people don't choose to get cancer. Sometime life hits us so hard, we get injured (spiritually or physically) regardless how hard we fight it.

yes, sometimes we get injured. Christ is no stranger to that.
but we have to look at the bigger picture in all of this, because there's a pretty good chance
that the injury we sustained was designed to throw us off course.

the good news is that there is life on the other side of that injury.
whether it is earthly life or eternal life, it's still there and it still trumps the injury.

We have two choices when we get hit.
we can stay down, nurse our injury, and let that injury become our identity.
or else we can choose to get back up and stay the course.

guess what choice Jesus made.
He chose to stay the course in spite of the injury.
 
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pdudgeon

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Chiding someone about their pain and anger is easier to do than to actually help them, pray for them, or understand their pain and anger to show them compassion.


And it's much easier to stay in the pain and get all that attention
than it is to push through it, and become useful to others again.
 
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Sumwear

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Thanksgiving was always about how the Pilgrims survived a grueling winter and starvation only because Natives extended a helping hand. I don't see why the talk about atrocities against the Natives on such a day. Columbus Day I can most certainly see, but Thanksgiving? Where whichever way you look at it, the Natives are always seen in a positive light.

Now, personally and only so much as it only pertains to me, Thanksgiving has meant something else to me. It has evolved over the years, but when I was younger and still in grade school, Thanksgiving was seen as nothing more than a four day weekend, two days away from school where I could watch cartoons, play video games, and start pestering my folks as to what I wanted fr Christmas.

It wasn't until high school that I began to notice that our big gatherings kept dwindling for one reason or another [Familial spats, deaths in the family, illness, logistics, or certain members now having to accommodate their own new family], so now when Thanksgiving comes around the corner, I actually am thankful that I can spend it with the most relatives as I can.

And I hope it remains so. And I hope Thanksgiving is still alive in a few years because you see these people waiting on line like idiots and making Christmas shopping on Thanksgiving. I'm just waiting for Thanksgiving to get the axe and for Black Weekend to actually come in to fruition, or for Shop 5 Day Spree to come into actuality if we were to include Cyber Monday.
 
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One Voice Among Many1

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MOD HAT

This thread had a small clean up.

Folks, if you do not like the topic then do not post in it. It is not okay to post insults or off topic posts.

@FreeinChrist,

Thank you for the mod hat and for the thread clean.
 
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pdudgeon

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In that case you should feel no compassion for the poor, for injured veterans, for abused children, or for the martyrs of your faith - because you didn't do that harm directly, right? That means that nobody ever should feel any compassion for people they haven't personally harmed. I don't think that's what Jesus said, somehow.

you wouldn't happen to be refering to the parable of the Good Samaritan, would you?
Luke 10:30-37
in all three cases you should note that the injured man was within reach of those who passed by.
they all saw him, noted the need, and two of them passed by.
this wasn't a case of not feeling compassion for a nameless person at a distance that they had no contact with.
nor was it a case of historical injury that happened previously on that spot.

as such, the verse has no relevance in this case.
 
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Mountain_Girl406

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you wouldn't happen to be refering to the parable of the Good Samaritan, would you?
Luke 10:30-37
in all three cases you should note that the injured man was within reach of those who passed by.
they all saw him, noted the need, and two of them passed by.
this wasn't a case of not feeling compassion for a nameless person at a distance that they had no contact with.
nor was it a case of historical injury that happened previously on that spot.

as such, the verse has no relevance in this case.
I don't think we can assume she was thinking of a specific verse, and then try to debunk an argument that wasn't made.
The bigger question is do you think, considering the entirety of Jesus' teachings as we know them, would He agree we should feel compassion for, as you call them, the nameless? Or only those we come into direct contact with?
 
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Jared R

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And it's much easier to stay in the pain and get all that attention
than it is to push through it, and become useful to others again.

I know some people will just read my post as internalized white guilt, but here goes. One thing I've learned as a white, American male is not to police the way historically disenfranchised groups think and feel about past and present injustices. Maybe I didn't personally do anything to any native person, but I can't pretend that I haven't benefited from past injustices or that native people today aren't affected by these past injustices. So who am I to tell OVAM or any other person how they should feel and react to all this? It's really cringe-worthy to say to someone from a group that has been historically oppressed, and is still affected by these past events, that their feelings and reactions are inappropriate, especially if you yourself are from the group that has done the oppressing and indirectly benefit from it today.

Does anyone else notice that when someone from a minority group wants to talk about their feelings about stuff like this, the conversation always gets turned around and ends up being about white people's feelings and white people feeling attacked?
 
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One Voice Among Many1

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I know some people will just read my post as internalized white guilt, but here goes. One thing I've learned as a white, American male is not to police the way historically disenfranchised groups think and feel about past and present injustices. Maybe I didn't personally do anything to any native person, but I can't pretend that I haven't benefited from past injustices or that native people today aren't affected by these past injustices. So who am I to tell OVAM or any other person how they should feel and react to all this? It's really cringe-worthy to say to someone from a group that has been historically oppressed, and is still affected by these past events, that their feelings and reactions are inappropriate, especially if you yourself are from the group that has done the oppressing and indirectly benefit from it today.

Does anyone else notice that when someone from a minority group wants to talk about their feelings about stuff like this, the conversation always gets turned around and ends up being about white people's feelings and white people feeling attacked?

Thank you. Many non-Native people living in this country are uncomfortable with being confronted with what happened to my ancestors in the past and how my people are still suffering the effects of what happened to our ancestors in this country. As a people, we lost almost everything we held most dear, from our homeland to our culture and languages. Non-Native people can ignore us, scoff at us, and mock us, but we are still here and our history will not go away, no matter how many times they deny it. I will go ahead and say it, the non-Native people living in this country today are inadvertently benefiting from the oppression and attempted genocide of my people. No matter where they live, they are living on occupied land that my ancestors were either murdered for or forcibly removed from. And that is the undeniable truth and history of this country.

So, for the record, I will not forget the history of my people in this country. I will not stop talking about the history of my people because it makes some non-Native people feel uncomfortable and angry. I will not stop talking about the suffering and struggles my people still face today because it makes some non-Native people feel uncomfortable and angry. I will not deny the pain I feel in my heart and my spirit because of all my people have lost in this country. I will not stop being a voice for my people. I will not stop fighting for my people and standing up for our rights in this country. If many non-Native people do not want to hear it, then they can walk away and not listen. I am not standing up only for myself or for my people, but also for my children and their children, and for future generations of our children to come. I will help them find their voice.
 
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Sumwear

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Does anyone else notice that when someone from a minority group wants to talk about their feelings about stuff like this, the conversation always gets turned around and ends up being about white people's feelings and white people feeling attacked?

Probably because not all white people are living the lap of luxury, and the last thing a blue collar white person who breaks his back for a living wants to hear is that he is benefiting from the system when they in turn will say an expletive about that very same system.

Sure, there are more whites compared to other races who have vast amounts of riches at their disposal. However, those who live day by day on whatever benefit they can get, those who are actually down in the dumps, or those who live by the skin of their teeth, would you really tell them this spiel that they are benefiting from the system or some kind of privilege?
 
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