Testimony of others

[Sketcher]

"Let me tell you about all these historical documents and events that prove the validity of the Bible and how the world was intelligently designed. There is too much evidence not to believe in God."

"Most of the events and stories in the Bible were made up and could not have possibly occurred. Some of the Bible's stories are very similar to other texts. The Bible is unreliable."

I am constantly bombarded with opposing views about the Bible. How can I find a belief in God without having to rely solely on the testimony of others? Or is that the only thing keeping the belief in God alive?

I suppose you could investigate both claims to see where the historical and documentary evidence points. But even that is interpreted by other people, much like most of everything that we learn. We don't discover a whole lot about history or science or philosophy or politics or mathematics or any language outside of other people teaching us. I therefore wouldn't use this as a reason or an excuse to not consider Christian testimony about God. There's too much at stake to just dismiss Christianity just because other people disagree with it.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

You can come to Jesus Christ without the bible. First concentrate on your faith through Jesus Christ, the bible can come later. Trust in the promises of God through His Only Begotten Son. He is our bridge to salvation.

VERSES

“Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.” (Acts 4:12)

“For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself a ransom for all …” (1 Timothy 2:5)

“There is one body and one Spirit … one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.” (Ephesians 4:4)

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.” (John 14:6)

“I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and find pasture … I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.” (John 10:9)

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life, he who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die.” (John 11:25)

Then Jesus spoke to them again, saying, “I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life.” (John 8:12)

And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.” (John 6:35)

“I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.” (John 6:51)


I pray that you turn to Jesus Christ. As we are all sinners, we need the mediator to atone for our sins. Jesus is that mediator. It was finished 2000 years ago, when Jesus said "it is done". He has already atoned for your sins, what you need to do is accept His free gift of grace which is salvation. Very simple.

 

[Steeno7]

"Let me tell you about all these historical documents and events that prove the validity of the Bible and how the world was intelligently designed. There is too much evidence not to believe in God."

"Most of the events and stories in the Bible were made up and could not have possibly occurred. Some of the Bible's stories are very similar to other texts. The Bible is unreliable."

I am constantly bombarded with opposing views about the Bible. How can I find a belief in God without having to rely solely on the testimony of others? Or is that the only thing keeping the belief in God alive?

You can read the Bible for yourself.

Instead of relying on second hand information.

It's not about believing or not believing what others believe, it's about you and what you are going to believe. We each must work out our own salvation. No one else can do that for you.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

So I should sit here and wait for him to reveal himself? Ok thanks.

God will always reveal an answer, but God's timing is not our timing.

What do you want to know, I'll try to help.

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

"Let me tell you about all these historical documents and events that prove the validity of the Bible and how the world was intelligently designed. There is too much evidence not to believe in God."

"Most of the events and stories in the Bible were made up and could not have possibly occurred. Some of the Bible's stories are very similar to other texts. The Bible is unreliable."

I am constantly bombarded with opposing views about the Bible. How can I find a belief in God without having to rely solely on the testimony of others? Or is that the only thing keeping the belief in God alive?

You can find a very logical , reasonable , scientifically confirmed belief that a personal Theistic Creator is necessary for what we have by way of personal, intelligent, information-based effects that make up our reality...by digesting the following and by asking yourself if the atheistic explanation is more credible . The Universe declares the glory of God and always has and always will, and Science will only confirm this more n more ; what real Science has and will continue to show is that Atheism is a completely bankrupt system for explaining the Universe, and its close buddy called Secular Humanism is simply all about making Self his own Master thru the denying of God . If you've been thru a Public School System then you've been lied to over and over again thru Secular Humanism ideology / religion ... and now it is time to get on board the Truth-Train so you can experience firsthand your true ultimate reason and purpose in being alive during this moment in history : To get to know the Creator, Your Creator, in a close loving way so when you enter eternity it will be so very natural to adore and honor him. Hope to see you there.

Heres a very brief rundown of the alternative to God NOT existing :

1. Non material entities such as our personality, consciousness, will, emotions, love, reasoning, logic, and abstract thinking....all derived from materials such as rocks/dirt/planets/and hydrogen gas.

2. A Universe which has a great many examples of intelligent intervention, came from Nothing by Nothing for no reason whatsoever.

3. Informational messages as found in the specified complexity of the DNA Molecule which tells a cell how to form and how micro biological systems are to be constructed...came from Nothing. They just popped into existence from nothing then proceeded to be a blue print and Builder of a complex Cell so busy and intricate that its been related to the infrastructure of a major U.S. City by Biologists (atheist and non atheist alike) . Two atheist Scientists in the last century calculated the chance of life popping into existence the way Atheists claim at a phenominal 1 in 10 chance to the 40,000 th power . That's how impossible Atheism is for origins.

4. There isnt a shred of purpose or reason to this life ...even though we as Human Beings contradict that every day of our live by how we live.

5. We are just a little above the animals of the Forest in value and dignity., and essentially are on the same order of importance as an earth worm.

6. Everything is purely accidental including morals and ethics...and it is silly to hold to such in any form and to any level. There is nothing that is absolutely and objectively wrong therefore...and it doesnt even make sense calling the extermination of 6 million Jews and Christians in Nazi Germany 'wrong' , for it is just opinion to do so if morals are accidental and there is no higher objective Moral Law Provider (God) .In fact, there is no objective reason for Mother Theresa being 'better' than Stalin or HItler.

7. Everything is utterly futile by placing any value on it, for, nothing in an accidental Universe could have any deliberate value. Therefore, we have no intrinsic value ...and we are no different than the Bird in the tree who struggles to survive in a valueLESS reality. A human baby we see arrive into the world is completely void of any value whatsoever and if it dies there should be absolutely no anquish or sorrow shed. In a futile world, there is no room for regret .

I could on..but suffice it to say that carried to the end....belief in No God (atheism) is THE most illogical unreasonable and devastating to society faith-based Religion ever to be devised by Man.

If you want to bolster your faith in God, get the book called 'I Don't Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist' from www.amazon.com for about $5 for a good used copy. It will solidify your trust and faith in Gods existence and love for you and will erase all doubts. Plus, it will allow you to come back to the professed 'Atheist' with overwhelming evidence that they will not be able to logically explain.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

There is also a very spiritual side of Christianity atheists do not try to experience and usually do not understand. To really understand you need to try prayer and worship. Experience it for yourselves. It is the other half of the experience.

 

[gord44]

There is also a very spiritual side of Christianity atheists do not try to experience and usually do not understand. To really understand you need to try prayer and worship. Experience it for yourselves. It is the other half of the experience.

to be honest though, I have discovered that spiritual experiences aren't limited to theists. Spirituality can be experienced by an atheist, although a theist might not describe the experience as one. But in truth it's one in the same. There are atheists further up the spiritual 'ladder' then many theists I am sure.

 

[Albion]

to be honest though, I have discovered that spiritual experiences aren't limited to theists. Spirituality can be experienced by an atheist, although a theist might not describe the experience as one. But in truth it's one in the same. There are atheists further up the spiritual 'ladder' then many theists I am sure.

I think we're speaking of two different experiences there, actually.

Mystery, wonder, mythology, philosophical ponderings, and much more are all referred to as "spiritual" by someone, so popular is the word today. If you've noticed, anyone who owns a Ouija board or gets dewy-eyed over the beauty of nature--but doesn't want to be considered a rank materialist for having no interest in God--likes to describe himself as "spiritual" or "spiritually-minded" these days.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

to be honest though, I have discovered that spiritual experiences aren't limited to theists. Spirituality can be experienced by an atheist, although a theist might not describe the experience as one. But in truth it's one in the same. There are atheists further up the spiritual 'ladder' then many theists I am sure.

I think human beings are realizing there are many things that can't be explained away by science and are looking at 'spiritual' things. In the Word talks about some spiritual type things.
Ephesians 6:12



"For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."
Leviticus 19:31

“Do not turn to mediums or necromancers; do not seek them out, and so make yourselves unclean by them: I am the Lord your God.


Deuteronomy 18:9-12

“When you come into the land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the abominable practices of those nations. There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. And because of these abominations the Lord your God is driving them out before you."



If atheists are climbing a 'spiritual ladder' they should start praying now that they find Jesus at the top.

 

[gord44]

I think human beings are realizing there are many things that can't be explained away by science and are looking at 'spiritual' things. In the Word talks about some spiritual type things.
Ephesians 6:12



"For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."
Leviticus 19:31

“Do not turn to mediums or necromancers; do not seek them out, and so make yourselves unclean by them: I am the Lord your God.


Deuteronomy 18:9-12

“When you come into the land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the abominable practices of those nations. There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. And because of these abominations the Lord your God is driving them out before you."



If atheists are climbing a 'spiritual ladder' they should start praying now that they find Jesus at the top.

The scripture doesn't really make sense, but where Jesus fits on the ladder is different for everyone. For some he is an early step, a great step for going higher. For others he is a step that is comfortable and easy so they just stay there. For others it's a step that holds them back and might even make them get off the ladder. And for others it's a step they don't even encounter.

Anyways this is Alex's thread. Apologies. Not really my place to hijack his thread.

 

[oi_antz]

Better wording would be to refer to Jesus as THE ladder. He said "I am the way".

 

[gord44]

Better wording would be to refer to Jesus as THE ladder. He said "I am the way".

I am sure for some he is the complete ladder instead of just a rung.

 

[alexiscurious]

You can read the Bible for yourself.

Instead of relying on second hand information.

It's not about believing or not believing what others believe, it's about you and what you are going to believe. We each must work out our own salvation. No one else can do that for you.

The Bible is still second hand information. It is the collection of testimonies of others.

 

[alexiscurious]

I suppose you could investigate both claims to see where the historical and documentary evidence points. But even that is interpreted by other people, much like most of everything that we learn. We don't discover a whole lot about history or science or philosophy or politics or mathematics or any language outside of other people teaching us. I therefore wouldn't use this as a reason or an excuse to not consider Christian testimony about God. There's too much at stake to just dismiss Christianity just because other people disagree with it.

Even if I did, I would still be relying solely on what other people tell me about the text and what people said in the text. There is nothing for me to witness myself.

 

[Albion]

The Bible is still second hand information. It is the collection of testimonies of others.

You don't know that to be so, and the Bible itself denies it.

 

[Sketcher]

Even if I did, I would still be relying solely on what other people tell me about the text and what people said in the text. There is nothing for me to witness myself.

Given that people do this with news, history, science, mathematics, and countless other subjects, I don't see why this should be a barrier. You're also discounting that you may experience a supernatural calling to investigate the claims of the Bible.

 

[alexiscurious]

bump

 

[oi_antz]

Even if I did, I would still be relying solely on what other people tell me about the text and what people said in the text. There is nothing for me to witness myself.

What does your conscience say?

 

[Hawkins]

So if I'm looking for some undeniably compelling evidence, I shouldn't bother looking?

Since when you ever acquired any evidence about any distant history of your own country? Do you believe that your country has history or not?

Human history, as a kind of truth, is composed almost exclusively of witnessing. The collection of evidence in most situations is not possible. This is the nature of the kind of truth (history).

Similarly, as long as God chooses to hide Himself behind (for a good reason). The truth of Christianity is similar to that of human history (written in history books). It can only be reached through witnessing (written in Bible). This is the kind of faith you need to deliver in order to be saved. Other alternative either doesn't exist or doesn't qualify your salvation. Period.

 

[alexiscurious]

Since when you ever acquired any evidence about any distant history of your own country? Do you believe that your country has history or not?

I don't care enough to investigate whether or not George Washington was the first president of the United States. It really doesn't matter whether or not I choose to believe it. My life stays the same.

Human history, as a kind of truth, is composed almost exclusively of witnessing. The collection of evidence in most situations is not possible. This is the nature of the kind of truth (history).

This is true. But why would the supreme God of the universe rely solely on mankind to spread such an important message? Especially when we know humans are very crafty at creating other false religions and other manmade gods. Why doesn't God want himself to stand out? I want to be able to call on the name of God and for him to answer like in 1 Kings 18:24:

Then you call on the name of your god, and I will call on the name of the LORD. The god who answers by fire--he is God." Then all the people said, "What you say is good."

I'm tired of this pointless search. I don't know why God doesn't want people who are actively trying to pursue him to be 100% assured and convinced of his existence. Why does he enjoy being so mysterious?

Similarly, as long as God chooses to hide Himself behind (for a good reason). The truth of Christianity is similar to that of human history (written in history books). It can only be reached through witnessing (written in Bible). This is the kind of faith you need to deliver in order to be saved. Other alternative either doesn't exist or doesn't qualify your salvation. Period.

What good reason could he possibly have for hiding himself?