Are you my elder?
I appreciate you taking the trouble to reply to my posts. What I'm still wondering about is how passages written to Old Testament Jews, an earthly people, in the land under the law, relate to New Testament Christians, a heavenly people, under grace. Presumably you're familiar with dispensations and dispensationalism (okay, so I identify with dispensationalism)?
What I'm wondering why a person would believe lying demons over the context of the Bible. I've yet to read where the Bible says a demon can enter when one gets a tattoo!
It's not just that our friend believes this; it's that he insists that other people are subject to his sweeping condemnation, while I've asked him repeatedly about the context of the very verse that he had quoted.What I'm wondering why a person would believe lying demons over the context of the Bible. I've yet to read where the Bible says a demon can enter when one gets a tattoo!
Oh I see: 'Thus saith jamadan'....It doesn't say demons can enter by ouija or physical/sexual abuse or just about anything else, but that doesn't make mean it's not true. There are things the Spirit teaches directly to us (the anointing teaches you all things 1 JOhn 2:27).
Oh I see: 'Thus saith jamadan'....
Now I understand where you're coming from.
Umm...this is about tattoos, not about sacrificing animals to the devil. I think you've changed the subject rather drastically.Alright, so let me ask you, if you were to sacrifice an animal to the devil, would you expect a demon could enter you? If so, why? What in Scripture tells you that can happen?
Umm...this is about tattoos, not about sacrificing animals to the devil. I think you've changed the subject rather drastically.
You seemed to say that you know about your demon angle on tattoos via personal revelation, if I'm not mistaken. Maybe I don't believe in personal revelation.
Oh, so all it takes is someone to say, Thus saith the Lord, and people must automatically believe the person, without checking it out from Scripture?Then you're on the wrong forum. All Spirit-Filled believers recognize that the Spirit can speak to us and teach us and lead us into truth, all of which is in Scripture as I pointed out (1 John 2:27).
Oh, so all it takes is someone to say, Thus saith the Lord, and people must automatically believe the person, without checking it out from Scripture?
This I find bizarre...
So by your presumed spiritual authority over me you are overruling Scripture, or otherwise telling me what it means, though I can't read that conclusion there myself?Scripture tells us to test everything. We submit such statements to other mature leaders in the Body and ask them to pray for the leading of the Spirit to confirm or reject it. Test everything, hang on to the good. Surely you've seen this in Scripture.
Scripture tells us much, but can't be used as a written law. In the New Covenant, we're given the Spirit indwelling within us, the Law written in our hearts, who leads us into righteousness and guides our decisions. Surely this isn't new.
Spoken like someone rebelling against the Lord. My statement about being an elder is generic. I've been an elder in several churches over the past few decades, have published as a teacher in the Body of Christ, run seminars on the baptism in the Spirit, and have been doing this for 30 years. So whether or not I'm older, I'm an elder in my position in the church. Most people who are not threatened and want to hear from the Lord simply appreciate that I've got lots that I've been taught and have lots I'm willing to share.
So while I was giving you the benefit of inexperience and ignorance and thus trying to explain, I see you are not teachable and my original assessment was correct. My patience with you is over. Goodnight.
jamadan:
My question was:
"So by your presumed spiritual authority over me you are overruling Scripture, or otherwise telling me what it means, though I can't read that conclusion there myself?"
Your answer was:
I think your reply to my question is a 'yes'.
Actually, like a lot of Christians, I think I'll stick to what the Bible clearly tells me.
Thanks for having take the trouble to answer my questions, at least, in some shape or form. I can see that there is little or no grounds for meaningful communication on these matters, seeing as by your doctrine you feel you can overrule what the Bible teaches, or otherwise make it explicit where the Bible apparently is not.
Do you believe abortion is a sin? Why? Doesn't say anything about abortion in the Bible, does it?
Do you allow women to speak in Church? If so, why? New Testament clearly states they are not allowed to speak.
I've provided 2 examples where you have to rely on the Holy Spirit to help you determine truth and lead you in righteousness. Scripture alone is not enough, we need to rely on the author of Scripture to help us.
False.
Scripture is all sufficient.
We do need the guidance of the Holy Spirit, but He graciously illuminates and gives understanding of what Scripture says; He does not give new revelation.
What you seem to be saying, Sir, is not too different from Medieval popes who said that Scripture was not enough; it's the guidance of the Holy Spirit through the church, that is really decisive.
(I'm glad Luther did not take that view.)
The other topics you raise are way off topic; more suitable for another thread.
We seem to have come a long way from tattoos, but I do think that approaches to the topic depend a lot on one's doctrinal background and methods of Scripture interpretation.
Sola Scripture is not in Scripture
Paul said to follow the oral traditions as well, didn't he? And to obey the voice of the Spirit? Sorry. You're looking for the wrong law. The stone is crumbled.
Thus saith the Lord is not equal to Thus said jamadan.
Sola Scripture means the final appeal is to Scripture, not to men.
You were the one that mentioned the Holy Spirit, and now you're suggesting, if I'm not mistaken, that the believer cannot be guided in understanding by the Holy Spirit without the mediation of the church.You will never understand the Spirit, because you reject being able to hear from Him. Sad.
You were the one that mentioned the Holy Spirit, and now you're suggesting, if I'm not mistaken, that the believer cannot be guided in understanding by the Holy Spirit without the mediation of the church.
A truly sad position to take.
I'm not saying to anyone, go get a tattoo. (I don't think I've ever said this.) What I've said is, if a person gets a cross or Bible verse on a wrist, for example, they might find that it leads to witness conversations; many Christians have found this.