"Taken" & "Left"

[Dale]

Believers in a Left Behind scenario have always assumed that it is good to be “taken” and very bad to be “left.” The words come from the apocalyptic discourse of Jesus in Matthew 24. Yet the Gospel of Matthew itself says nothing about whether the results of being taken or left are good or bad. One reason may be that the message of the Gospel is to be prepared, be ready for Christ's coming, be ready for the Day of Judgment at all times. Be ready and let God take care of the details.


How far off could these bland assumptions about the value of being “taken” or “left” be? The following quotes are from G. Brent McGuire, a pastor of the Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod.


<< The word for "taken" in the original Greek of Matt. 24:40 - 4 1 and Luke 17:34 - 35 can also be used to mean "seized" or "taken prisoner.' >>


In other words, the word for “taken” is the word that would be used when a Roman or Herodian soldier arrests someone and throws them in the dungeon.


<< Moreover, the word for "left" is often used in the Bible to mean "to pardon" or "to forgive." >>


McGuire goes on to tell us that the Greek word for “left” in Matthew 24 is the same word that means “forgive” in the Lord's Prayer!


It sounds like, if we are to take a Left Behind scenario seriously, those “taken” would be seized by angels and taken to judgment and condemnation. Those who are “left” would be forgiven and invited into Heaven.


Advocates of the Left Behind scenario do not have a good grasp of the Gospel, the New Testament, or even of its apocalyptic sections.


Link to Rev. Brent McGuire's article:
Will You Be Left Behind? - by G. Brent McGuire




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[daq]

I hate to say it because I do not agree with the "Left Behind" theology but this is not the correct argument to make against it because of a more critical truth concerning the word "aphiemi" which is mistakenly translated as "forgive" just about everywhere we see it in the English texts. What it originally means is "to send away" in various contexts. It is because this relates to the "sending away" of our sins it is thus translated as "forgive" in most all English renderings. In modern terminology we tend to imagine a "pardon" when we hear the word forgiven but this is not the case of old time; no, but rather the sins were sent away on the head of a goat into the wilderness to/for Azazel. Thus the goat has a "mortally wounded head" because the High Priest would place all of the sins of the people upon the head of the goat before sending him away, (aphiemi) into the wilderness to/for Azazel. This is clearly evident in Matthew 9:2 where the Master says to the paralytic man: "Teknon, (child) be of good cheer; the sins of thee be aphiemi-sent-away!" And the reason certain of the scribes then see him as blaspheming is because they knew that the High Priest was the only man upon the earth vested with the authority from on high to send away sins and it was done only once in the year, (Yom Kippurim). Therefore Yeshua says at a later date to the paralytic man at the temple, "Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee!" And what could be that worse thing? When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out. And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished. Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. If therefore the first one goes through the dry-arid places of the desert-wilderness and joins to himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, so that they may return to the man which is the house; does that not make the first also the eighth and of the seven?

 

[random person]

You are absolutely right brother Dale!

Matthew 13:47-50

&#8220;Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a dragnet cast into the sea, and gathering fish of every kind; and when it was filled, they drew it up on the beach; and they sat down and gathered the good fish into containers, but the bad they threw away. So it will be at the end of the age; the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous, and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Proverbs 2:21-22

For the upright will live in the land
And the blameless will remain in it;
But the wicked will be cut off from the land
And the treacherous will be uprooted from it.

Proverbs 3:25-26

Do not be afraid of sudden fear
Nor of the onslaught of the wicked when it comes;
For the Lord will be your confidence
And will keep your foot from being caught.

Psalm 37:9-11,22,34

For evildoers will be cut off,
But those who wait for the Lord, they will inherit the land.
Yet a little while and the wicked man will be no more;
And you will look carefully for his place and he will not be there.
But the humble will inherit the land
And will delight themselves in abundant prosperity.
For those blessed by Him will inherit the land,
But those cursed by Him will be cut off.
Wait for the Lord and keep His way,
And He will exalt you to inherit the land;
When the wicked are cut off, you will see it.

 

[Gottservant]

Some desire to be quickened, but do not desire to behold

Some desire to behold, but do not desire to be quickened

Some desire to be quickened and behold, but do not behold or become quickened

 

[interpreter]

As in the days of Noah and Lot the bad guys will be taken and the good guys left. I pray that I am one of those "left behind" to rule with Jesus in His millennial reign, coming soon.

 

[daq]

As in the days of Noah and Lot the bad guys will be taken and the good guys left. I pray that I am one of those "left behind" to rule with Jesus in His millennial reign, coming soon.

Paralambano is "to receive near", "to take near", as in "to bring close" (by the side of).
Aphiemi is in various forms "to send away", (into perdition).

 

[Dale]

DAQ:
&#8220;In modern terminology we tend to imagine a "pardon" when we hear the word forgiven but this is not the case of old time; no, but rather the sins were sent away on the head of a goat into the wilderness to/for Azazel. Thus the goat has a "mortally wounded head" because the High Priest would place all of the sins of the people upon the head of the goat before sending him away, (aphiemi) into the wilderness to/for Azazel. &#8221;


Yes, the OT scapegoat.


&#8220;And the reason certain of the scribes then see him as blaspheming is because they knew that the High Priest was the only man upon the earth vested with the authority from on high to send away sins and it was done only once in the year, (Yom Kippurim).&#8221;


They didn't realize that Jesus was the High Priest of a new priesthood, one that would remain in office forever.


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[ebedmelech]

The point that this is judgment should be realized in the comparison to the flood. Those "taken" were taken in judgment.

It clearly the "pretrib rapture"...but many do think so,

 

[daq]

DAQ:
“In modern terminology we tend to imagine a "pardon" when we hear the word forgiven but this is not the case of old time; no, but rather the sins were sent away on the head of a goat into the wilderness to/for Azazel. Thus the goat has a "mortally wounded head" because the High Priest would place all of the sins of the people upon the head of the goat before sending him away, (aphiemi) into the wilderness to/for Azazel. ”


Yes, the OT scapegoat.


“And the reason certain of the scribes then see him as blaspheming is because they knew that the High Priest was the only man upon the earth vested with the authority from on high to send away sins and it was done only once in the year, (Yom Kippurim).”


They didn't realize that Jesus was the High Priest of a new priesthood, one that would remain in office forever.


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The Elohim-Melchizedek Priesthood was not "new", but yes,

 

[Bible2]

ebedmelech said in post 8:

The point that this is judgment should be realized in the comparison to the flood. Those "taken" were taken in judgment.

It clearly the "pretrib rapture"...but many do think so,

Do you mean it clearly isn't a pre-trib rapture? If so, that's right. For Luke 17:26-37 and Matthew 24:37-41 refer to what will happen at Jesus' 2nd coming, "when the Son of man is revealed" (Luke 17:30), "the coming of the Son of man" (Matthew 24:37,39), which Jesus had just finished saying won't happen until immediately after the future tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31). Those "taken" at the 2nd coming (Luke 17:34-36, Matthew 24:40-41) will be unsaved people who will be taken to where they will be killed and birds will eat their dead bodies (Luke 17:36-37; Matthew 24:28, cf. Job 39:30b; Revelation 19:21). The Greek word "paralambano" ("taken": Luke 17:34-36, Matthew 24:40-41) can be used to refer to being taken to another place to be killed (John 19:16-18).

Those "left" where they are at the 2nd coming (Luke 17:34-36, Matthew 24:40-41) will include unsaved people who will be forced to come up annually to worship the returned Jesus in Jerusalem during the millennium (Zechariah 14:16-19). These unsaved people will have to be ruled with a rod of iron by Jesus and the bodily resurrected church during the millennium (Revelation 2:26-29, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 20:4-6, Psalms 2, Psalms 66:3, Psalms 72:8-11). And their descendants will be deceived by Satan after the millennium is over into committing the Gog/Magog rebellion (Revelation 20:7-10, Ezekiel chapters 38-39).

Before the millennium, at Jesus' 2nd coming, those in the church will neither be "taken" and killed, nor "left" where they are, but will be "gathered together" (raptured) (Matthew 24:31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1) into the sky to hold a meeting in the air with the returned Jesus (1 Thessalonians 4:17). The purpose of this rapture meeting will be so that those in the church can be judged by Jesus (Psalms 50:3-5, cf. Mark 13:27) and married to Jesus (Revelation 19:7) in the sky, before Jesus descends from the sky (the first heaven) with the obedient part of the church to bring the 2nd-coming wrath on the unsaved world (Revelation 19:14 to 20:3).

ebedmelech said in post 8:

The point that this is judgment should be realized in the comparison to the flood. Those "taken" were taken in judgment.

That's right. But Luke 17:27,29 and Matthew 24:39 don't mean (as is sometimes claimed) that all unsaved people will be killed at Jesus' 2nd coming. For Luke 17:34-36 and Matthew 24:40-41 go on to show that some unsaved people will be left alive at that time (Zechariah 14:16-19). So in Luke 17:26-30 and Matthew 24:37-39, the point of the comparison isn't that all unsaved people will be killed at the 2nd coming, but that none of them will be expecting to be killed, but will be eating and drinking without worry right up to the day of the 2nd coming.

The 2nd coming will be like "the days of Noah" (Matthew 24:37) and "the days of Lot" (Luke 17:28,30) in that just as Noah went into the ark before the temporal (i.e. not the eternal) judgment of the Flood, and Lot went out from Sodom before its temporal (not its eternal) judgment (cf. Ezekiel 16:53-56), so the church will be raptured into the sky at the 2nd coming (Matthew 24:30-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17, Revelation 19:7) before Jesus begins the 2nd-coming, temporal (not the eternal) judgment of the unsaved world alive at that time (Revelation 19:11 to 20:3, Luke 17:26-30, Matthew 24:37-39).

Regarding the final judgment of the unsaved, note that when Jesus returns, only the church will be bodily resurrected and finally-judged (1 Corinthians 15:21-23, Revelation 20:5; Psalms 50:3-5, cf. Mark 13:27; Matthew 25:19-30; 2 Corinthians 5:10, Luke 12:45-48). The obedient part of the bodily resurrected church, including those in the church who had been beheaded by the Antichrist, will then reign on the earth with the returned Jesus for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11, Zechariah 14:3-21). Only sometime after the 1,000 years and the subsequent Gog/Magog rebellion are over (Revelation 20:7-10, Ezekiel chapters 38-39) will the rest of the dead (of all times) be bodily resurrected (Revelation 20:5) and finally-judged at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11-15).

 

[Dale]

You are absolutely right brother Dale!

Matthew 13:47-50

“Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a dragnet cast into the sea, and gathering fish of every kind; and when it was filled, they drew it up on the beach; and they sat down and gathered the good fish into containers, but the bad they threw away. So it will be at the end of the age; the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous, and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Proverbs 2:21-22

For the upright will live in the land
And the blameless will remain in it;
But the wicked will be cut off from the land
And the treacherous will be uprooted from it.

Proverbs 3:25-26

Do not be afraid of sudden fear
Nor of the onslaught of the wicked when it comes;
For the Lord will be your confidence
And will keep your foot from being caught.

Psalm 37:9-11,22,34

For evildoers will be cut off,
But those who wait for the Lord, they will inherit the land.
Yet a little while and the wicked man will be no more;
And you will look carefully for his place and he will not be there.
But the humble will inherit the land
And will delight themselves in abundant prosperity.
For those blessed by Him will inherit the land,
But those cursed by Him will be cut off.
Wait for the Lord and keep His way,
And He will exalt you to inherit the land;
When the wicked are cut off, you will see it.

Thanks for this excellent list of Bible passages that show God protecting His own people in this world, instead of whisking them away.


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[Dale]

Rev. Brent McGuire has several problems with the Left Behind scenario with its pre-Trib Rapture. One of these is that it presents the Antichrist as more of a political figure than a spiritual figure, as someone with a political agenda rather than a spiritual one, a political threat rather than a spiritual threat. The Antichrist described in the Bible sets himself up to be worshiped in place of God and spreads this message by every possible means. The persecution of Christians by a despot is only part of the problem.


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[zeke37]

in Mat24 it is quite clear that those taken, are taken in the flood..
those left, are left working for the Lord.
blessed is he who the Lord finds working on the day He comes home

 

[zeke37]

...double post

 

[Notrash]

in Mat24 it is quite clear that those taken, are taken in the flood..
those left, are left working for the Lord.
blessed is he who the Lord finds working on the day He comes home

Some viw this as relating to how the new covt christians escaped the roman desolatiin and remained. The desolatiin of jerusalem was prophecied to be as a flood in Dan 9 and Isaiah 59. Isaiah 59 is an overlapping prophecy of deut 32 which prophecied the last generatiin of the misaic covt Israel, not of the end of the woeld.

 

[Bible2]

Dale said in post 11:

Thanks for this excellent list of Bible passages that show God protecting His own people in this world, instead of whisking them away.

All obedient people in the church will be spiritually protected during the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, no matter what happens to them physically (Romans 8:35-37). The 144,000 male-virgins part of the church (Revelation 14:4), along with some others, will be physically protected so that they will survive the tribulation's first stage (Revelation 6), while others will die and their souls will enter heaven (Revelation 7:9,14). Near the end of this first stage, the 144,000 will be sealed (Revelation 7:3-4) for physical protection before the unsealing of the 7th seal (Revelation 8:1), out of which will come the tribulation's 7 trumpets (Revelation 8:1-2). The first 6 trumpets' events, up to Revelation 9:19, will be the tribulation's 2nd stage. The seal which the 144,000 will receive (which will be different from and in addition to the seal of the Holy Spirit himself which they and all others in the church receive: Ephesians 1:13) will physically protect them during this 2nd stage (Revelation 9:4).

After the 2nd stage is over, the 144,000 male-virgins part of the church will be caught up in their mortal bodies as the "man child" to God's throne in heaven (Revelation 12:5, Revelation 14:4-5, Textus Receptus), like how Enoch and Elijah were caught up in their mortal bodies to heaven (Hebrews 11:5; 2 Kings 2:1). Right after the 144,000 are caught up, the tribulation's 3rd stage, the literal 3.5-year worldwide reign of the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) will begin (Revelation 12:5-6). This time period is shown from 4 different angles in Revelation chapters 11 to 14 (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5-18, Revelation 14:9-13).

The 144,000 will remain in heaven before God's throne (Revelation 14:5, Textus Receptus) during the time of the Antichrist's reign (Revelation 14:9-13, Revelation 13:5-18), while two other parts of the church will still be on the earth: the figurative "woman" who represents those in the church who will flee into prepared wilderness places and be physically protected (Revelation 12:6,14), and the remnant of her seed (Revelation 12:17), those in the church who will remain in the cities and not be physically protected, but will be persecuted in every nation, imprisoned, and beheaded by the Antichrist (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

After the Antichrist's reign is declared legally over at the sounding of the 7th trumpet (Revelation 11:15), the 7 plagues of the 7 vials of God's wrath will come out of the 7th trumpet's heavenly-temple opening (Revelation 11:19, Revelation 15:5 to 16:1). These vials will be the tribulation's 4th and final stage (Revelation 16). Because the church isn't appointed to God's wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9), none of these vials will be directed at those in the church who will still be alive on the earth at that time, still waiting for Jesus' coming as a thief (Revelation 16:15). Instead, they will go into protective chambers which they will have built for themselves on the earth (Isaiah 26:20), just as Noah and his family went into the protective ark which they had built for themselves on the earth (Genesis 7:7). So some in the church will survive the entire future tribulation on the earth. They are those who will still be "alive and remain" at Jesus' 2nd coming to be raptured (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17) immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8). These survivors will have experienced God's miraculous physical protection (Psalms 91) without having to have been part of the 144,000.

 

[LaSpino3]

Zech.14:2 answers to Matt.24, "For I (Jesus) will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city."

A fleeting taste of victory for the Gentiles in Jerusalem!

Phil LaSpino

 

[daq]

Zech.14:2 answers to Matt.24, "For I (Jesus) will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city."

A fleeting taste of victory for the Gentiles in Jerusalem!

Phil LaSpino

What is the final "punch line" statement of the Olivet Discourse in the Gospel of Matthew?
If any man knows it he will know the doctrine . . .

 

[Bible2]

LaSpino3 said in post 17:

Zech.14:2 answers to Matt.24, "For I (Jesus) will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city."

A fleeting taste of victory for the Gentiles in Jerusalem!

That's right, in that both the tribulation, and the 2nd coming of Jesus, in Zechariah 14 and Matthew 24 have never been fulfilled, but will be fulfilled in our future. For Zechariah 14 is about Jesus' 2nd coming with all his saints (Zechariah 14:5b; 1 Thessalonians 3:13b), and about the subsequent millennium, when he will reign on the earth from Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:8-21, Micah 4:1-4). Zechariah 14:3 refers to the 2nd-coming battle of Revelation 19:19-21. And Zechariah 14:4 shows that at his 2nd coming, Jesus will physically land on the Mount of Olives, just as at the end of his first coming, he physically ascended from the Mount of Olives. Acts 1:11-12 says that Jesus will return in like manner as he left.

Before Jesus returns, at the very end of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 the world's armies will gather together at a staging area at Armageddon (Revelation 16:14,16) (Har Megiddo, Mount Megiddo in northern Israel). They will then move south and pillage Jerusalem right before Jesus returns and defeats them (Zechariah 14:2-5, Revelation 19:19-21). Jesus will then remain on the earth as King (Zechariah 14:9), and the unsaved people "left" alive on the earth (Matthew 24:40) will be forced to come up to Jerusalem and worship him annually (Zechariah 14:16-19). Jesus and the bodily resurrected church will rule the unsaved survivors of the nations with a rod of iron during the millennium (Revelation 2:26-29, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 20:4-6).

Also, Zechariah 12:2-14 refers to the same future time as Zechariah 14.

Also, Zechariah 14:5a isn't referring (as is sometimes claimed) to the fleeing of people in the church into the mountains, the wilderness (as in Matthew 24:15-16 and Revelation 12:6,14), at the midpoint of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. Instead, Zechariah 14:5a is referring to only a post-tribulation, 2nd-coming fleeing of surviving unsaved elect Jews in Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:2-5), who will become believers and get saved when they see the returned Jesus in person (Zechariah 12:10-14, Romans 11:25-32).

 

[daq]

That's right, in that both the tribulation, and the 2nd coming of Jesus, in Zechariah 14 and Matthew 24 have never been fulfilled, but will be fulfilled in our future.

What is the final statement and "punch line" of the Olivet Discourse in the Gospel of Matthew?
If anyone is given to fully understand it the same will understand the doctrine.