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Surah 4:89-90.

Discussion in 'News & Current Events' started by Ikaria, Mar 25, 2004.

  1. Ikaria

    Ikaria New Member

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    This passage has received quite a bit of airtime recently. ;)

    Right-wing hatemonger Amber Pawlik quoted it in a dizzyingly irrational rant against "liberals" (whoever they are) which may be read at your leisure (if you enjoy self-abuse) by clicking here.

    The passage has been seized upon by those of her ilk and employed in equally sickening attacks on Islam, of the sort that you will find in this thread.

    By way of setting the record straight, I'd like to present the commentary on that passage in the 1994 edition of the Koran by Amana Publications:

    As Christians, we get upset when atheists quote the Bible out of context during their attacks on our faith.

    It is therefore indefensible for a Christian to practice the same deceit.
     
    tulc, Jonathan David and UberLutheran like this.
  2. tulc

    tulc bonitas non est pessimis esse meliorem

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    Good post Ikaria! How do we expect to reach anyone if we can't even get the facts of their religion right? If we don't have respect for what they hold sacred why should they listen to what we say?
    tulc(trying to rep Ikaria and it worked!) :clap:
     
  3. rahma

    rahma FUNdamentalist

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    I guess the other thread got deleted or something. Oh well.

    Thank you for actually paying attention to the 1400 year old tradition of Islamic scholarship.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Jonathan David

    Jonathan David Revolutionary Dancer

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    Well done Ikaria. I'm really just reiterating what has already been said on this thread.

    Peace.

    JD
     
  5. mikefromwichita

    mikefromwichita New Member

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    It appears to me that the very commentary you cite demonstrates CLEARLY how dangerous muslims are- by the words of the commentary they see themselves as a Nation and not as a Faith Community. Therefore it would seem quite reasonable for example for the USA to treat all muslims within our Borders as enemy aliens given that we are currently at War with the islamicists. In addition an affiliation with islam should make a person ineligible for USA Citizenship given their inability to renounce Loyalty to another 'Nation'.
     
  6. Ampmonster

    Ampmonster Swords to plowshares

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    well ive never said anything about the Koran because i've never had 2 seconds to read it. all my point are drawn from current events and actions.
     
  7. Ikaria

    Ikaria New Member

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    Thanks man! Just doing my job... :wave:
     
  8. Ikaria

    Ikaria New Member

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    I don't think it was deleted, but it was certainly locked - mainly because I kept beating people up. ;)

    You're welcome. :) I hate to see people misrepresenting religion, whether it's mine or anyone else's.

    And it's especially offensive when a Christian is at fault. :sorry:
     
  9. Ikaria

    Ikaria New Member

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    Cheers. :wave:

    Let's fight the good fight, spread the love and increase the peace! :clap:
     
  10. xMinionX

    xMinionX Contributor

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    Anyone remember WW2? Japanese Internment camps? It's comments like these that remind me how important it is that I keep studying history.

    We're at war with Islamics, yes, but not at war with Islam. Even Bush made that clear.

    Furthermore, Islamics, as I understand it, view their "nation" in the same way as many Christians view their fellowship with other Christians. Just because Islamics happened to use a different word doesn't change the underlying meaning.
     
  11. UberLutheran

    UberLutheran New Member

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    We all know that Jews swear allegiance to Israel.

    We all know that Roman Catholics swear allegiance Rome. In fact, isn't the Pope the Antichrist (assuming that one reads the Revelation of St. John literally, even though it was never intended to be read that way).

    Anglicans swear allegiance to England. The Queen of England is the head of the Anglican church, therefore, Anglicans are not TRUE Americans.

    Lutherans swear allegiance to Germany, and Germany wouldn't even support President Bush when he invaded a sovereign country, Iraq, on false pretenses! By golly, we're the UNITED STATES and we can go wherever we want, invade whomever we want, and nobody had better try to STOP US. The fact that Germany would not support OUR PRESIDENT shows that Lutherans are not REAL Americans!

    And what about those Spanish-speakers down in Texas, Florida, New Mexico, Arizona, and California? We all KNOW their allegiance is to Cuba and Mexico. Why, they even celebrate their OWN "holidays" such as Sinko de Mayo and Mexican Independence Day instead of REAL American holidays such as OUR Independence Day (the REAL Independence Day).

    We just got finished "celebrating" St. Patrick's Day -- a day to honor the people of IRELAND (a liberal Roman Catholic haven) but NOBODY celebrated Confederate Heroes Day (January 19).

    So, why stop there, Mike? After all, the plain teaching of Scripture demonstrates quite clearly that we are to utterly annihilate anybody who "worships false gods" (Deuteronomy 12:2-3, 29-31) and kill them by stoning them to death (Deuteronomy 13:6-10).

    :sigh:
     
  12. rahma

    rahma FUNdamentalist

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    Grammar point: Muslims, not Islamics... ok carry on ;)


    Islam is a complete way of life. If it were the ideal world, muslims would be one nation, the ummah, stretching from morocco to india and down into indonesia. However, we realize that religion means something else now adays and is no longer a national identity. Not that that would be a bad thing. I keep on thinking it would be neat to redraw nations based on religious/ideological grounds. That would mean there would be no more arguments about gay marriage, the pledge or other issues.

    American Muslims (of which I am one) are not a fifth column. There are rules set forth by the Prophet Muhammad (saws) for muslims living in non muslim countries. If anyone has the time, which no one ever does (they would rather just make generalizations), they can read Western Muslims and the Future of Islam by Tariq Ramadan.
     
  13. rahma

    rahma FUNdamentalist

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    Actually, the Lutherans in my area are loyal to Norway. Not quite sure how they're a threat, but man, that lutefisk, that is definately an incideious plot against the american people if there ever was one.
     
  14. Ampmonster

    Ampmonster Swords to plowshares

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    islam gets misinterpreted by a few just as all other faiths.

    those few muslims are really really really hard core though.
     
  15. Ikaria

    Ikaria New Member

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    I have the time. :)

    Where can I get ahold of this book, please? :wave:
     
  16. Ikaria

    Ikaria New Member

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    It's old news - but a timely reminder is always helpful. :)

    I haven't posted the whole article, of course. You'll need to click on the link to read the rest. :wave:
     
  17. rahma

    rahma FUNdamentalist

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    Uh oh, you cited CAIR. According to Daniel Pipes, CAIR is just a front of hamas and terrorists in the US. As are Muslim Students Associations (MSAs), ISNA, ICNA, MPAC, and every other american muslim organization. So you can't cite any of them, because they're all "terrorists."
     
  18. Ikaria

    Ikaria New Member

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    ;)

    Actually, I do have a few problems with CAIR because I think they have a tendency to over-react a lot of the time, just as the ADL do. :rolleyes:

    Having said that, I also have a few problems with Pipes because he tends to be too much of a tub-thumper and he's so wildly pro-American that he can't see past his own patriotism a lot of the time.

    Anyways, these attacks on Muslims were well documented, so it doesn't really matter that CAIR was quoted. :wave:
     
  19. rahma

    rahma FUNdamentalist

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    Double post, nothing to see here, move along, move along...
     
  20. rahma

    rahma FUNdamentalist

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    It's a rather dense read, but luckly he sumarizes a lot of important terms and concepts in the beginning. It's relatively new, so your local library probably doesn't have it yet. However, I can suggest a few that your library may have:

    Qur'an Liberation and Pluralism by Farid Esack. He was one of the leading Muslim leaders against apartheid in south africa. Kind of the Desmond Tutu of the South African Muslim community (although he makes people mad. I usually like authors that make people mad, but in a respectful way).

    Anything by Khaled Abou El Fadl. He is classically trained, but also has a secular education in the west. He is banned in Saudi Arabia.
    Books by him -
    Speaking in God's Name
    And God Knows the Soldiers: The Authoritative and Authoritarian in Islamic Discourses
    The Place of Tolerance in Islam
    Islam and the Challenge of Democracy : A Boston Review Book
    Democracy and Islam in the New Constitution of Afghanistan


    Autobiography of Malcolm X

    Taking Back Islam: American Muslims Reclaim Their Faith edited by Michael Wolfe

    And if you want anything more theological, look into lectures and books by Hamza Yusuf.