Fellowship Studying the Holy Spirit with Regent College Vancouver DE

Biblicist

Full Gospel believer
Mar 27, 2011
7,023
992
Melbourne, Australia
✟43,594.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
For Module 509, there are a few books to study from. In module 607 many more. How does one accomplish all that reading?
"Accomplish the reading", how about accomplishing the purchasing - but my library would certainly welcome them (not so sure about my wife).
 
Upvote 0

GoldenKingGaze

Prevent Slavery, support the persecuted.
Mar 12, 2007
4,200
518
Visit site
✟249,501.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Single
Politics
AU-Labor
Interesting, I have the books that I have greyed out and I am looking for a reason to buy Dunn's important work on the Holy Spirit. Even though they are using some really great books, as they are a bit dated, I'm surprised that they haven't updated the syllabus since who knows when - but it would still be a great course.

Going by the text books that they are referring to, it seems that they are presenting a non-classic Pentecostal position regarding the Baptism in the Holy Spirit, which is the positon held by Carson, Dunn, Fee and Grudem.

What are the definitives of Classic Pentecostalism and the position of Carson, Dunn, Fee and Grudem? What are the differences?
 
Upvote 0

Biblicist

Full Gospel believer
Mar 27, 2011
7,023
992
Melbourne, Australia
✟43,594.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
What are the definitives of Classic Pentecostalism and the position of Carson, Dunn, Fee and Grudem? What are the differences?
The classic-Pentecostal (i.e., AoG) position regarding the Baptism in the Holy Spirit is of subsequence, where they believe that a person is first sealed with the Holy Spirit at the momoment of conversion, where they later on receive the BHS with the evidence of speaking in tongues. This 'second blessing' as it is sometimes called, can occurr moments, hours, days or years after someone is first sealed with the Spirit.

In more recent years the subsequence position is being gradually replaced with a soteriological understanding, where all Christians receive the BHS at salvation. Since the early 90's there has been a massive move away from the subsequence understanding by Pentecostal scholars to the soteriological position. But even here there is a wide range of views as well, where many South American and European Pentecostals (incl. AoG) unfortunately no longer connect speaking in tongues with the BHS. When you come across a contemporary scholarly book on the Baptism in the Holy Spirit, you will most likely discover that the author has moved away from subsequence to the soteriological position.

Gordon Fee caused a major stir with his commentary on First Corinthians where he rejected his denominations stand on the BHS. As the AoG were understandably unwilling to challenge him over this issue he became a bit of a thorn in their side. As with probably most (all?) scholars, he also rejects the classic-Pentecostal formula where tongues + interpretation = prophecy.

Even though I now see the BHS as being received by all Christians (and even quasi-cessastionists), I am still a Pentecostal (though non-classic) in that I equate the reception of the Spirit with speaking in tongues, though we do not need to speak in tongues to be saved.
 
Upvote 0

GoldenKingGaze

Prevent Slavery, support the persecuted.
Mar 12, 2007
4,200
518
Visit site
✟249,501.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Single
Politics
AU-Labor
After I received the Holy Spirit, I received tongues about a year later. Years later I received Christ. So the soteriological position position holds I was BHS when I received the Holy Ghost, and tongues was released with the prayer later on? What about other gifts? And Derek Prince example of a great covering BHS making him laugh in the barracks, what is this?
 
Upvote 0

Biblicist

Full Gospel believer
Mar 27, 2011
7,023
992
Melbourne, Australia
✟43,594.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
After I received the Holy Spirit, I received tongues about a year later. Years later I received Christ. So the soteriological position position holds I was BHS when I received the Holy Ghost, and tongues was released with the prayer later on? What about other gifts? And Derek Prince example of a great covering BHS making him laugh in the barracks, what is this?
Much the same happened to me where it was maybe 18 months after I was Born Again before I began to speak in tongues. This is why so many of us are happy to accept the classic-Pentecostal position of subsequence; afterall, it happened to so many of us this way then it must be true!

The problem here is that prior to this happening most of us had absolutely no idea that every Christian is able to allow the Holy Spirit to operate this way through them. As the denominations that we were in were “ignorant of the spiritual things”, we were just as ignorant as they were. If I had come to know the Lord in a Full Gospel church instead of a cessationist church, I would have been able to pray in the Spirit probably from day one, where the BHS with the evidence of speaking in tongues would have been soteriological (at the moment of salvation) instead of subsequence (subsequent to our initial salvation).

Now I would really value sitting in a classroom of Regent students as they would come from a wide range of backgrounds along with differing understandings of the BHS. For those students who have not yet had an opportunity to look through books by scholars such as Carson, Fee, Grudem, Withington, Thiselton and the like, it would be intriguing to see the outcome of their studies.

It’s interesting, when it comes to the books Showing the Spirit (Carson), First Corinthians (Fee) and Gift of Prophecy (Grudem), over my time on this forum I’ve mentioned on numerous occasions how these three books that were released in 1987/88 had a major impact on the church. Carson’s book is an easy read and Grudems book on prophecy is only slightly more indepth but it contains a lot of stimulating information. As for Fee’s First Corinthians, as Fee is an exegetical scholar his work is certainly more indepth but once you get into chapters 12, 13 & 14 maybe for the first time, then your technical knowledge will increase exponentially, though I am of the opinion that Fee was wrong in a few very important areas.

Then there’s Dunns important work from 1975 (he is neither a Pentecostal nor a charismatic) which forced many Pentecostal commentators to re-think their understanding of the BHS. Dunn pointed out the glaring weaknesses with the classic-Pentecostal position of subsequence where it probably took another 10 or 15 years before there were any Pentecostal scholars who were capable of addressing his objections. The AoG scholar Gordon D Fee agrees with Dunn in that the BHS is not one of subsequence but where it is soteriological. Fee and Grudem's books can be read almost as a novel but Fee's work is more of a reference took that you refer to when the need arises; it tends to be a good read particularly when you have lots of caffeine coffee on hand.

Unfortunately, when it comes to Derek Prince I probably haven't read any of his material for at least 30 years so I can't really comment.

Once you've gone through the course you will definately have to obtain Anthony C. Thiseltons First Corinthians (2000) as his massive work summarises all of the important views regarding the BHS and tongues. I am currently going through his 21 pages on tongues (actually 1Cor 12:10c) which has helped me a lot.
 
Upvote 0

GoldenKingGaze

Prevent Slavery, support the persecuted.
Mar 12, 2007
4,200
518
Visit site
✟249,501.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Single
Politics
AU-Labor
I wrote to Regent College again. Rikk Watts still lectures there but Gordon Fee's subjects, Holy Spirit in the Pauline letters... are not taught by DE. However Gordon will be teaching by DE again next northern summer. Subjects being Galatians and Revelation.

They wrote this to me.

Thanks for getting back to me on this. I think both BIBL 502 and BIBL 543 are courses that offer a kind of instruction and information a bit different than you are looking for. The first one is a biblical and historical approach on the New Testament as a whole, and the second one is a discussion about the use of the OT of the New and the relationship between the two testaments.
We will offer two courses with Gordon Fee in the next summer (BIBL 662 Galatians, and BIBL 679 Revelation). Alternatively, you can visit our bookstore in order to get the audio of other Fee's courses. Sometimes they have good discounts on their audios.
 
Upvote 0

Righttruth

Regular Member
Supporter
Jan 13, 2015
4,484
341
✟154,410.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
i guess its the whole "college thing" .. but teaching on things of the lord .. at a monetary cost $$$ i will always disagree with .
not saying whats been taught is this or that .. just that anytime money is involved .. then its a NO from me .(but that's a whole other topic )

Truth will be received free to be given free. Anything else is mercenary stuff!
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Alithis

Disciple of Jesus .
Nov 11, 2010
15,750
2,180
Mobile
✟94,492.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Lecturers need to eat and raise kids too.
they do . and i hear this argument often .if they are doing the work of the gospel the labourer is worthy etc .. but are they doing the work of the lord ..or their own ? this is the question . just because some one is lecturing topics from the bible does not mean they are doing god's work . we see televangelists fleecing millions from people all the time and they are certainly not doing gods will .
 
Upvote 0

Johnnz

Senior Veteran
Supporter
Aug 3, 2004
14,082
1,002
82
New Zealand
✟74,521.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
I have read books and listened to lectures from several of the Regent faculty. There is extensive audio material which can be downloaded for a fee. Get on their mailing list and and there are regular heavily discounted lectures available. These are very suitable for those who want good, biblically based materials who are not able to undertake a full course of study.

John
NZ
 
Upvote 0

Biblicist

Full Gospel believer
Mar 27, 2011
7,023
992
Melbourne, Australia
✟43,594.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
I have read books and listened to lectures from several of the Regent faculty. There is extensive audio material which can be downloaded for a fee. Get on their mailing list and and there are regular heavily discounted lectures available. These are very suitable for those who want good, biblically based materials who are not able to undertake a full course of study.

John
NZ
Hi John, I just saw your post and I trust all is well with you.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums