Struggling with certain aspects of faith

[Job8]

First, I don't feel that I can support the GOP culture wars. That puts me at great odds with most Baptists as well as the broader evangelical Christian world, but I feel secular government is a good thing and that religious piety and convictions should be up to the individual believer. Christian moral values should be promoted by the church and in the home and not the government. I don't believe that America is even a nation in the Biblical sense and even if it was, nowhere in Scripture does God command that Christians establish Christian government in the earth.

Since you say you are "struggling" with various issues, the first question you should be asking yourself is "Am I solidly grounded in the Word of God"? While God does not command Christians to establish Christian goverment on earth, neither does He give permission to any goverment to be amoral or immoral. And neither do the laws of the nation nor the Constitution.

I also tend to favor the liberal perspective on a lot of political issues..

On what grounds do you favor a liberal perspective? If your views and values are not grounded in Scripture and based on the techings of Christ and the apostles, then that is where your focus should be. Take "same-sex" marriage. First of all homosexuality is a perversion, and secondly the Bible clearly teaches that marriage is a permanent, monogamous relationship between a man and a woman. Should Christians oppose this perversion of the truth? Absolutely. Why? Because Christians are supposed to be salt and light in a corrupt and dark world.

Secondly, I am a scientifically minded person and I really struggle with the church's stance against modern science, denying everything from evolution to climate change. I have done plenty of research on this subject and am very familiar with Answers in Genesis, but to me that doesn't settle the issue. It's not so much the issue of evolution for me as it is the pressure to believe in a young earth and a global flood ca 2000 BCE. Both have been extensively refuted by modern science and even recorded history. Personally, I don't think a person is required to believe in a young earth and global flood in order to believe what Genesis says. Most of the evangelical world however would disagree with that.

No one is forcing you to believe Bible Truth. There is no "pressure". Christians can either believe that the entire Bible is the Word of God (every word is a word of God, and from God) or they can stop claiming to be Christians. There's no middle ground. If Jesus -- who is God -- taught that Adam and Eve were two real historical individuals, you can either believe Him or reject the Bible altogether. The problem arises when people want to play games, and believe some of the Bible and reject other parts of the Bible. There is no conflict between GENUINE science and the Bible. Evolution is PSEUDO-SCIENCE. So if the Bible reveals a young earth, it does not matter what "science" says. We have God's truth. Indeed, the Ten Commandments ensure that there is no misunderstanding about Creation. God created all things in six literal 24-hour days (Exodus 20:11).

 

[mikedsjr]

Chris,
Let me first say, I hate politics. The reality is its a game. A game of power and control. That is the prize. My theology in a political setting is quite conservative, though not conservative enough for some suit wearing, tech hating fundamentalist.

I absolutely oppose abortion, but my opposition would do a thing. I absolutely believe living the gay relations is sin, however I condemn the sin of divorce and remarriage within the church far more. If they church won't get that right, they have no right to fight their war on LGBT with people who aren't christians.

As far as the Republican Party and Democratic Party. From a professor of History, Dr Daniel van Voorhis, said there are 3 key topics every nation as any particular time is trying to answer. What should I believe, How shall I be governed, and what the nature of civilation/social equality. The majority of America is answering the latter. The Republican party, due to its Christian backers, is answering the question wrongly based on the people of America. And unless the Republican Party stops answering the question with a Christian theocracy answer, it will continue to become less relevant in power positions like the Presidency.

There is no question too many churches are WAY too civil government minded and they treat the US government as the second coming of Israel, as if we are Israel 2.0. We aren't. This isn't God's country.

Here's the facts. God used the US for a long time to send missionaries to the world. But the US isn't the important part of the equation. It was a tool. And the tool God is using is more based in the East. More people are coming to the US to reach people than the US is sending out to reach people.

I'm greatful to live in the US. But the arrogance of the Christian culture has forgotten we aren't to impose morality on people. We are to bring Christ crucified for the sins to them. Let God change the culture, not our Morality.

as far as leaving the church: You sound like your at church for the wrong reason or are you frustrated that people have forgotten why they are to be at church. Because I go to church because Christ died for my sins, which I deserve hell but greatful to be given grace.

 

[PrincetonGuy]

No one is forcing you to believe Bible Truth. There is no "pressure".Christians can either believe that the entire Bible is the Word of God (every word is a word of God, and from God) or they can stop claiming to be Christians. There's no middle ground.

Christians have many choices regarding belief—including the option to believe the truth even though some radicalized Christian fundamentalists falsely claim that the truth is a lie. As was shown in post #16 of this thread, the Old Testament expressly describes the earth as being a flat disk covered with a dome. By the time of Christ, Greek scholars had already conclusively proven that that cosmology is absurdly incorrect. Nonetheless, the Jewish people tenaciously held to their Hebrew cosmology, and the New Testament reflects that Jewish cosmology.

If Jesus -- who is God -- taught that Adam and Eve were two real historical individuals, you can either believe Him or reject the Bible altogether. The problem arises when people want to play games, and believe some of the Bible and reject other parts of the Bible. There is no conflict between GENUINE science and the Bible. Evolution is PSEUDO-SCIENCE. So if the Bible reveals a young earth, it does not matter what "science" says. We have God's truth. Indeed, the Ten Commandments ensure that there is no misunderstanding about Creation. God created all things in six literal 24-hour days (Exodus 20:11).

What did Jesus believe about Adam and Eve? What did He believe about the flood? The story of the flood is dependent upon the earth being flat and covered with a dome with windows in it that God opened as described in Genesis 7:11. The earth is NOT flat and covered with a dome—and it never was; therefore, we know for an incontrovertible fact that the story of the flood is NOT an accurate account of an historic event. Jesus and several of the New Testament writers used the Genesis stories about Adam and Eve, the flood, etc., to teach spiritual truths that are no less true simply because they are severely redacted epic tales, sagas, myths, or legends that God, in accord with His sovereign will, chose to use to teach us His truths about us and our need for His redeeming grace.

Religious beliefs regarding the literalness of redacted ancient Hebrew accounts is NOT evidence that proven facts of science are not true; indeed, religious beliefs regarding the literalness of redacted ancient Hebrew accounts are themselves false when they contradict proven facts of science. The vast majority of Christians now believe that the earth is approximately spherical rather than flat, and they no longer believe a literal interpretation of Genesis 6:6-10 or Genesis 7:11-12.

Gen. 1:6. And God said, “Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.”
7. So God made the dome and separated the waters that were under the dome from the waters that were above the dome. And it was so.
8. God called the dome Sky. And there was evening and there was morning, the second day.
9. And God said, “Let the waters under the sky be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear.” And it was so.
10. God called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good. (NRSV)

Gen. 7:11. In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened.
12. The rain fell on the earth forty days and forty nights. (NRSV)

Nonetheless, a literal interpretation of Genesis 6:6-10 and Genesis 7:11-12 is absolutely necessary in order for the flood story to be an accurate account of an historic event.

 

[Job8]

It is laughable to believe that the Bible teaches a flat earth concept, although men might have held this false notion. However, there is a Flat Earth Society to join for those who are interested.

It is IMPOSSIBLE that God who tells us that the earth is a globe, and created a globe, would contradict Himself. And using the inflammatory, insulting and dishonest term "radicalized Christian fundamentalists" tells us that you yourself have some strange beliefs. It is theological liberals who should depart from their fantasizing, and deal with truth, rather than mutilate it. Nothing was REDACTED other than in the imagination of the Higher Critics.

 

[PrincetonGuy]

It is laughable to believe that the Bible teaches a flat earth concept, although men might have held this false notion. However, there is a Flat Earth Society to join for those who are interested.

Laughing at a biblical reality will not make it go away. The Flat Earth Society exists today because the Old Testament expressly describes the earth as being a flat disk covered with a dome, and some radicalized fundamentalist Christians chose to “believe the word of God.”

It is IMPOSSIBLE that God who tells us that the earth is a globe, and created a globe, would contradict Himself.

Nowhere in the Bible does God or anyone else tell anyone that the earth is a globe. Indeed, it tells us in detail that the earth is a flat disk covered with a dome.
Gen. 1:6. And God said, “Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.”
7. So God made the dome and separated the waters that were under the dome from the waters that were above the dome. And it was so.
8. God called the dome Sky. And there was evening and there was morning, the second day.
9. And God said, “Let the waters under the sky be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear.” And it was so.
10. God called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good. (NRSV)

Gen. 7:11. In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened.
12. The rain fell on the earth forty days and forty nights. (NRSV)

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/exploringourmatrix/2012/11/ancient-hebrew-cosmology.html

http://www.webpages.uidaho.edu/ngier/gre13.htm

http://www.yuriyandinna.com/bible-science-ancient-hebrew-cosmology/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_cosmology

According to Genesis, the rain during the flood came from the vast storehouse of “waters that were above the dome” and from “the fountains of the great deep.” In order for the flood waters to have been deep enough to cover “all the high mountains under the whole heaven” (Gen. 7:19), a massive amount of water would have been necessary—indeed, over a million times the amount of water that the earth’s atmosphere is capable of holding! That water, according to Gen. 1:7, came mostly from “the waters that were above the dome.”

And using the inflammatory, insulting and dishonest term"radicalized Christian fundamentalists"tells us that you yourself have some strange beliefs. It is theological liberals who should depart from their fantasizing, and deal with truth, rather than mutilate it. Nothing was REDACTED other than in the imagination of the Higher Critics.

The term “radicalized Christian fundamentalists” is a fair and honest term used to distinguish between Christian fundamentalists who interpret the Bible in a manner that is in harmony with all known facts, and Christian fundamentalists who instead hold to radically incorrect interpretations of the Bible that expressly contradict a multitude of known facts. I am a mainstream evangelical Christian who holds to mainstream evangelical Christian theology. I do not, however, hold to radically incorrect interpretations of the Bible that expressly contradict a multitude of known facts.

The evidence for redactions in Genesis 1-11 is so substantial that I am not aware of even one evangelical Christian scholar of Genesis publishing today in peer-reviewed biblical journals that denies that Genesis 1-11 is a collection of redacted stories. If you know of any, please post their names and quote them writing in a peer-reviewed biblical journal.

 

[Ringo84]

I have had numerous people tell me there is absolutely no compromising with the liberals and to be sympathetic to the liberal viewpoints is to deny God's word, but is this really the case?

No.

I'm one of the few (if only) moderate-to-liberal Baptists on this subforum. According to many of the conservatives/fundamentalists among us, they're the most holy thing the world has seen since Jesus Himself. The problem is that their tendency to use religion as a whipping post with which to beat those that disagree with them is narrow faith.

Jesus didn't come here to constantly belittle homosexuals and deny science. He came so that the entire world is saved. That's what we should focus on insteadof petty culture war nonsense.