Still really trying, can't get past Christian hate...

[JGG]

OP

 

[High Fidelity]

I've been reading book after book about Jesus, different ways of interpreting faith, salvation, etc. I felt like I had found some element of faith, or taken a step forward on some path.

Then I come on here, and get a hard reminder of what Christians are actually like. I feel like I have taken a dozen steps backwards. I've been hit with this slam of "I don't want to be like that, don't want to be around people who are like that, and certainly don't want to others to think I'm like them."

Hello I know exactly what you mean and it's the only time I've ever had issues with my faith. I really struggled to reconcile with professing Christians treating other people like dirt.

This isn't meant to prompt discussion on where, why or who, but even on here there are areas that I try and avoid now. It's a shame, just the way it is.

I think the best advice I can give is to simply treat others how you wish to be treated yourself. I guess 'be the change you wish to see in the world' is an apt way of putting it, too.

It's not always easy. Everyone trips up sooner or later, some more than others; the main difference is being humble enough to hold your hands up and admit fault and make amends.

 

[oi_antz]

I've been reading book after book about Jesus, different ways of interpreting faith, salvation, etc. I felt like I had found some element of faith, or taken a step forward on some path.

Then I come on here, and get a hard reminder of what Christians are actually like. I feel like I have taken a dozen steps backwards. I've been hit with this slam of "I don't want to be like that, don't want to be around people who are like that, and certainly don't want to others to think I'm like them."

Hi there JGG. I have been learning what this is all about lately. It is actually fruits of the flesh instead of fruits of the spirit. If you read St Paul's observations in Galatians 5:16-26, you will see them matching up perfectly. What this is motivate by is human ego. That is, the self. That is a consequence of having a body that desires gratification. Some of the gratifications of the ego are emotional, eg a Christian might be motivated to speak because of their desire to appear knowledgable. A Christian might be motivated to speak because of a desire to see you put trust in God. A Christian might be motivated by their desire of approval of their beliefs, either to feel that they are doing the right thing, or that they will go to heaven when they die. But if the self is the motivation, then we are naturally doing it for ourselves. Usually this results in something that is not pleasant for another person. This is what you will see resulting, consistent with Galatians 5:15. Whereas if someone is acting in love, they are motivated by the other person's need. That is actually the proper application of Christianity. This is what it means to put to death the old self with it's fleshly desires, and to put on the likeness of Christ. There is an advertisement on the Christian radio that I hear sometimes, it basically says "when your faith is healthy, people are drawn to God". This message has been emphasised to me for weeks on end now, centring around the 1 John 1:6 - this is, that if someone believes they are Christian, yet they are walking in the dark (that is, to be doing things that they are ashamed of per John 3:19-20), then they do not have fellowship with Him. If they are forced to say that they do have fellowship with Him while living that way, they need to lie. This is interesting too, when considering what happened to Adam and Eve. They covered their private parts with leaves, which is symbolic to this, as we conceal our sin from each other. But we still cannot conceal ou sin from God. Just like Adam and Eve, we need to hide from Him. We cannot comfortably bring ourself to have fellowship with Him if our conscience is reminding us that we are doing what we know He doesn't want us to do. Yet, people who are living this way, if they are of Christian persuasion, will continue to love Him, to love the truth, to encourage people t pursue Him, to accept the truth, and so they will continue preaching the truth, and they can still continue to do so accurately. But what they also have is those fruits of the flesh that are contrary to the fruits of the spirit. Those fruits of the flesh are repulsive, and this is what you are describing. Whereas if you are to look for Christians who have a healthy relationship with God, you will see them, they have a graciousness that is kind, gentle, good etc, and they are the ones who you will find inspiration from to continue considering that maybe there is some truth about it. Another interesting verse about this is James 1:22-25. So you can expect from this, to see Christians as they struggle with their sin through their life, to sometimes appear to be gracious, loving and drawing you to Christ, and at other times to be offensive, rude and generally repulsive. I suppose you will consider this along with Jesus' comment "you will know them by their fruits. Can a man pluck a fig from a thistle?". And this in general goes along to support the meaning of the phrase "the servant who knew what was right and did not do it will be beaten with many blows, but the one who did not know what was right will be beaten lightly. From those to whom much is entrusted, much will be expected". This is for good reason, because I am sure you will know in your own experience, those who seem to have a good grasp of Christian truth and yet repel you do more harm than those who seem to not really grasp it at all.

 

[paul1149]

Then I come on here, and get a hard reminder of what Christians are actually like.

This is a major stumbling block, and one we have been repeatedly warned about. Mt 24 is just one example, 2Ti 3, another. I was on Cloud Nine when I became a Christian, and stayed there for about two years, until my church collapsed under my feet. I saw leadership fail and the church split, and wondered, if this is what they do, what chance do I have? It was a very dark time of my life.

But to my surprise the Lord held onto me through it. Eventually - and this was not an easy process - I came to the conclusion that He is worthy no matter what imperfect man does; that He is true though every man be a liar.

It's like Zacchaeus, the tax collector who climbed a tree to see Jesus. Zacchaeus had it made financially, but he had lost his soul in the process. He heard about Jesus, and had to get a look at Him. Maybe he could find redemption in this friend of sinners? But because Zacchaeus was short he couldn't see Jesus because of the crowd that followed. So he humbled himself and climbed the tree.

Jesus still can be obscured by the crowd that follows Him, and sometimes we need to humble ourselves to see past them to what Jesus is really like. A pastor friend once remarked, the church is a mission field. That stuck with me. It is true. People are at all levels of maturity and sincerity (especially in the West, where church membership used to have social advantages). But despite the flaws of sincere disciples, and the schemes of false ones, Jesus is still worth it. You will never find a better savior.

 

[golgotha61]

I've been reading book after book about Jesus, different ways of interpreting faith, salvation, etc. I felt like I had found some element of faith, or taken a step forward on some path.

Then I come on here, and get a hard reminder of what Christians are actually like. I feel like I have taken a dozen steps backwards. I've been hit with this slam of "I don't want to be like that, don't want to be around people who are like that, and certainly don't want to others to think I'm like them."

Yeah, its called "graceless Christianity" and at one time or another, most believers suffer from this malady. The only cure is Christ's grace and honest repentance on the part of the offender.

 

[RC1970]

People often say they are seeking to know what it is to be a Christian and find out what the demands are of Christians and decide it's not for them. I talked with a lot of people who want Christianity to conform to them rather than the other way around. A good Christian is not going to compromize on truth.

Once I realize that a person is not really interested in Christianity, I usually just try and leave them alone.

"And he said, 'This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.' After this many of his disciples turned back and no longer walked with him." ~ John 6:65-66

 

[GracetotheHumble]

I've been reading book after book about Jesus, different ways of interpreting faith, salvation, etc. I felt like I had found some element of faith, or taken a step forward on some path.

Then I come on here, and get a hard reminder of what Christians are actually like. I feel like I have taken a dozen steps backwards. I've been hit with this slam of "I don't want to be like that, don't want to be around people who are like that, and certainly don't want to others to think I'm like them."

If this is anything like your stance on immigration then I'd say your perspective on things is wrong again.

I don't think that CF is a very good indication of what Christians are really like. The Christians I meet at my Church are nothing like the posters on this forum. This is a place for debate, you must keep that in mind.

 

[Winken]

Hi there JGG. I have been learning what this is all about lately. It is actually fruits of the flesh instead of fruits of the spirit.

The entire post is outstanding....... we need more like this.

 

[Winken]

This is a major stumbling block, and one we have been repeatedly warned about.

Jesus still can be obscured by the crowd that follows Him, and sometimes we need to humble ourselves to see past them to what Jesus is really like. A pastor friend once remarked, the church is a mission field. That stuck with me. It is true. People are at all levels of maturity and sincerity (especially in the West, where church membership used to have social advantages). But despite the flaws of sincere disciples, and the schemes of false ones, Jesus is still worth it. You will never find a better savior.

Amen & Amen....

 

[KimT]

I don't think CF is representative of most Christians. There are many here who like to argue theology or appear as though they have all the answers. Father, forgive them (and me, if I've done this.)

Look for the fruit of the spirit within posts. Those are disciples of Christ.

I'm very sorry you've seen the ugliness of flesh on this forum. We all fail sometimes; some of us fail many times. God gives us the grace to continue.

God bless you.

 

[Winken]

Yeah, its called "graceless Christianity" and at one time or another, most believers suffer from this malady. The only cure is Christ's grace and honest repentance on the part of the offender.

Amen.

 

[Winken]

I've been reading book after book about Jesus, different ways of interpreting faith, salvation, etc. I felt like I had found some element of faith, or taken a step forward on some path.

Then I come on here, and get a hard reminder of what Christians are actually like. I feel like I have taken a dozen steps backwards. I've been hit with this slam of "I don't want to be like that, don't want to be around people who are like that, and certainly don't want to others to think I'm like them."

Please forgive us. Let's all send Post #3 world-wide.

 

[Winken]

I don't think CF is representative of most Christians. There are many here who like to argue theology or appear as though they have all the answers. Father, forgive them (and me, if I've done this.)

Look for the fruit of the spirit within posts. Those are disciples of Christ.

I'm very sorry you've seen the ugliness of flesh on this forum. We all fail sometimes; some of us fail many times. God gives us the grace to continue.

God bless you.

Thank you, Kim......... Blessings.....

 

[oi_antz]

If this is anything like your stance on immigration then I'd say your perspective on things is wrong again.

JGG is sincere this time.

I don't think that CF is a very good indication of what Christians are really like. The Christians I meet at my Church are nothing like the posters on this forum. This is a place for debate, you must keep that in mind.

That is not the purpose of a Christian or Christianity. If Christians are debating, it is for their own enjoyment. That is a vain pursuit. Exodus 20:7 condemns it.

 

[Winken]

http://www.hymnpod.com/hymn-listings/

 

[GracetotheHumble]

This is Christian Forums a place to debate various topics. It's not a Church service. There are all sorts of members here coming from different walks in like.

Let's keep that straight.

 

[GracetotheHumble]

That is not the purpose of a Christian or Christianity. If Christians are debating, it is for their own enjoyment. That is a vain pursuit. Exodus 20:7 condemns it.

And yet you are in the process of debating with me.....

 

[GracetotheHumble]

This is a FORUM not a Church service.

 

[GracetotheHumble]

Exodus 20:7 condemns it.

That passage has nothing to do with debating. It is talking about using God's name in vain.

 

[KWCrazy]

Perhaps Christians aren't living up to your expectations because your expectations are wrong. Let's take, for example, Islam. You might want Christians to say that Islam is a great religion and that it doesn't matter what faith you follow so long as you are a good person. The trouble is, that is not what Christ taught. He taught that there was one way to heaven and one way for the forgiveness of sin; through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. So if we pretend that Muslims will got to Heaven when they will not, we are doing them a great disservice by not at least proclaiming that Jesus is the way, the truth and the light. Nobody comes to the Father but by Him. This might be a hard truth, but it is the truth and to deny it could be denying someone a chance at salvation.

There's also the issue of abortion; the cold murder for hire of the unborn. Some Christians tolerate it because they value their political agenda highly, but many of us are appalled at what is being done to the most innocent.

Of course, this being a Christian forum, it's replete with people who come here for no greater purpose than to attack Christians and Christianity. Should we allow them to denigrate our Lord and our religion, or should we stand up for what we believe? Personally, I would need better examples about the specific things that bother you. Certainly there is no call for rudeness, but if hearing that Christ is the only way to Heaven offends you, I'm sorry. Consider me offensive. I'll stick with what the Lord teaches on the subject.