States want performance-based teacher pay

[trunks2k]

My problem with it is that it's pushing a stronger reliance on standaradized tests. Instead of teaching children how to think, they get taught how to take the test.

I hated standardaized test time when I was in school. For a couple weeks out of the year, instead of focusing on learning new things and enforcing what we already knew, we were taught the stuff that was going to be on the exam.

For me, that was stuff I learned already.

 

[Grunt]

First off, you have to deal with that many teachers will "teach the government test" rather than teaching the whole range of issues. Government tests are often limited in their range, and only serve specific purposes.

It's been like that for years. Everything, everything, is based on "The Test." It's one of the reasons that my mom decided to go ahead and retire last year after 32 years of teaching. Unfortunantly Bush's "no child left behind" bullcrap is only making things worse.

What's looming over our schools now is a giant, cascading failure waiting to happen. It all starts with the lower grades. There, teacher's don't have the big "test" leaning over their shoulder (though they still get a cut of the bonus when the school does well, just like the bus drivers, cafeteria workers, custodians....). For a variety of reasons - not entirely the teacher's fault - the kids come out of those grades not really knowing the basics. How to read decently, write, basic things like their multiplication tables and simple arithmetic.
So then, in 4th or 5th grade, they hit teachers like my mom who do have to worry about "the test", but also have to deal with the fact that these kids don't know basic things that they should have learned 2-3 years earlier. It's kinda hard to teach a kid long division when he doesn't really understand 2*2=4.
But, because "the test" doesn't really test knowledge, most of the kids are still able to flub through it and pass the grade. So they go on up to middle school, not really knowing what they were taught in the early elementary grades, and in some cases still lacking the basics.
And so the cycle continues, all the way up through high school.

 

[Illuminatus]

My problem with it is that it's pushing a stronger reliance on standaradized tests. Instead of teaching children how to think, they get taught how to take the test.

Exactly. The students don't learn anything, except how to write a decent exam. That doesn't help much in the real world.

 

[Silent Bob]

Yes it is.

I know what you mean, I too have had good teachers and bad teachers.

But I have also seen good teachers being sabotaged by little punks who just don't give a damn. I have seen teachers lose hope and interest because of a couple of students. They threw them out of class, they called their parrents, the gave them daily appointments with the principal and in the end the teachers turned against all of us. They would come in test us and get out.

I understand them. The rule of thumb in my school was this: young teachers are bad at discipline, good at teaching, older ones are strict fascists and the worst teachers. Frankly if I was a teacher I would react the same way. I have seen teachers break down and cry because they can do nothing to restrain two-three punks. They have no means of punishing those who don't care about grades, expulsion, telling their parents etc.

Some kids cannot be educated. They spoiled it for the rest of us who would be interested if only our teachers hadn't become fascists to save their own sanity. 99.9% it was the parent's fault but what can you do? Bad parents bring up bad seeds. I say throw them out of school turn them loose on the street and hope they get caught by the cops and sent to prison (or even better O.D.) before they hurt others. I have no idea what could help those kids. But I know for a fact that they are destroying the human potential in classrooms both of the students and the teachers who do(did) care.

 

[Mr.Pious]

True performance based pay is impossible in the current system. Teachers do need to be paid what they are worth. Let's see how much parents are willing to pay. Separate School and State:

http://www.sepschool.org/

Because only the rich should be educated...

 

[Helo]

I know what you mean, I too have had good teachers and bad teachers.

But I have also seen good teachers being sabotaged by little punks who just don't give a damn. I have seen teachers lose hope and interest because of a couple of students. They threw them out of class, they called their parrents, the gave them daily appointments with the principal and in the end the teachers turned against all of us. They would come in test us and get out.

I understand them. The rule of thumb in my school was this: young teachers are bad at discipline, good at teaching, older ones are strict fascists and the worst teachers. Frankly if I was a teacher I would react the same way. I have seen teachers break down and cry because they can do nothing to restrain two-three punks. They have no means of punishing those who don't care about grades, expulsion, telling their parents etc.

Some kids cannot be educated. They spoiled it for the rest of us who would be interested if only our teachers hadn't become fascists to save their own sanity. 99.9% it was the parent's fault but what can you do? Bad parents bring up bad seeds. I say throw them out of school turn them loose on the street and hope they get caught by the cops and sent to prison (or even better O.D.) before they hurt others. I have no idea what could help those kids. But I know for a fact that they are destroying the human potential in classrooms both of the students and the teachers who do(did) care.

Man your teachers were easy to wash out It took us MONTHS to get us to wash out a teacher.

I agree that sometimes students make it really hard for a teacher to do thier job.

I also think this pay by performance system could open the door to students wielding control over teachers. "Hey, boost our grades up and we wont intentionally fail."

 

[Grunt]

Some kids cannot be educated. They spoiled it for the rest of us who would be interested if only our teachers hadn't become fascists to save their own sanity. 99.9% it was the parent's fault but what can you do? Bad parents bring up bad seeds. I say throw them out of school turn them loose on the street and hope they get caught by the cops and sent to prison (or even better O.D.) before they hurt others. I have no idea what could help those kids. But I know for a fact that they are destroying the human potential in classrooms both of the students and the teachers who do(did) care.

Our education system needs to be seriously restructured. In its current form it helps few kids and hinders most through the "grade level" system. You have a myriad of kids thrown together, of all different learning levels and abilities - and they're expected to go through school together.

So, the smarter kids are held back. While they may be able to grasp the concepts quickly, they have to sit there bored to tears with the lesson as the teacher tries to explain it for the rest of the class. IMO more than a few of your "troublemakers" get started like this. And unfortunately, while the system seems eager to devote resources to helping the kids with problems, no one bothers that much with the smart kids - after all, they're not at risk to fail the test.

OTOH the kids who learn at a slower pace, but are not necessarily the "low-end", can end up left in the dust. Teachers have so much material that they're required to cover, that they literally can't stop and dedicate time to little Johnny in the corner who needs a bit more help understanding fractions (or whatever). So he flubs his way through the year, never really learning the stuff, but somehow barely passes the mighty "test", and is booted to the next level to fall even further behind.

 

[Helo]

This is true, but do you have a system to replace what we have?

Its very easy to point out the failings of a system. Its very hard to replace that system with a more effective one

 

[blabberjaw]

I get performance based pay. If I do my job then I get paid. If I don't do my job I get fired. Teachers should be held to the same standard

 

[Quantos]

If there going to do this, will they allow teachers to get rid of students that are not up to standards ?

 

[blabberjaw]

If there going to do this, will they allow teachers to get rid of students that are not up to standards ?

Problems students should be put in reform school so the rest can learn. Teachers should be evaluated on what they can do. Some good teachers will have bad students. I am not saying punish them for that. Just hold them accountable for what they do like any other employee.

 

[Mr.Pious]

Sarcasm aside, putting punks that don't care in alternative schools with other punks sounds like a good idea. Unfortunatlly, it would require a whole hell of a lot for anyone to want to teacher there.

 

[stray bullet]

Or, you just allow students to take the money that would be spent educating them and allowing them to go to a private school.

This makes schools compete, if a teacher isn't cutting it, fire 'em.

 

[stray bullet]

The funny thing is, they will test them using standardized tests that I'm sure won't count towards their grades.

As soon as the students figure this out, guess how well they'll do?

 

[Norseman]

Or, you just allow students to take the money that would be spent educating them and allowing them to go to a private school.

Because clearly, only the rich should be educated.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Problems students should be put in reform school so the rest can learn.

Have you ever tried convincing a parent that they have a "problem student"?

 

[stray bullet]

Because clearly, only the rich should be educated.

Well, luckily, it would provide everyone, rich or poor, with a great education. Our universities are very competitive and we have the best university system in the world. By allowing the money government spends to educate kids in public schools to be able to be transfered to a private school, all kids, not just the rich, can get a quality education.

The only large group of people against this are the powerful teacher unions.

 

[cougtpt1]

I get performance based pay. If I do my job then I get paid. If I don't do my job I get fired. Teachers should be held to the same standard

I agree with you. I am a teacher and I wish I could get merit raises. I work my tail off compared to a lot of teachers in my district. But there is no way to say it is fair to base merit raises off of student performance there is no way to take into consideration the thousands of details. There should be some reward for seniority as well but there should be other raises as well. Maybe like having stipends for a small percentage of teachers in each district to be awarded by exceptional work in the classroom by administration.

No teacher is in it for the money! But being paid equal to that of someone with the same degree is very fair.

 

[Norseman]

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not, because otherwise you aren't making any sense.

Appropraite smiley added. But I think you answered your own question. If a statement doesn't make any sense unless it's sarcastic, then it's probably sarcastic.

 

[stray bullet]

Appropraite smiley added. But I think you answered your own question. If a statement doesn't make any sense unless it's sarcastic, then it's probably sarcastic.

I never know with some people around here (some people don't even seem to pay attention to posts, not you, just that it what it seems like sometimes).

I went ahead and editted my post when I saw you did the same