Spiritual manifestations at Pentecost

GoldenKingGaze

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Spiritual gifts are what assists greatly the making of mature Christians.
There are counterfeits, and genuine gifts that come by God's presence touching upon us, coming inside.
 
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GoldenKingGaze

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MKJV 1Cor 12:4, 7-11, 12-14, 27-28, 30

4 But there are differences of gifts, but the same Spirit.

The gifts are all from God's Spirit in His wisdom.

Verses 7-11

7 But to each one is given the showing forth of the Spirit to our profit. 8 For through the Spirit is given to one a word of wisdom; and to another a word of knowledge, according to the same Spirit; 9 and to another faith by the same Spirit; and to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10 and to another workings of powers, to another prophecy; and to another discerning of spirits; and to another kinds of tongues; and to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But the one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing separately to each one as He desires.

They gifts benefit us and are for peace. Tongues are God's plan and benefit, and more so when interpreted, not translated. God is happy with Christian community team work.

Verses 12-14

12 For as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body; so also is Christ. 13 For also by one Spirit we are all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free, even all were made to drink into one Spirit. 14 For the body is not one member, but many.

Again, team work, we are the bride of Christ.

Verses 27-28

27 And you are the body of Christ, and members in part. 28 And God set some in the church, firstly, apostles; secondly, prophets; thirdly, teachers, then works of power, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, kinds of languages.

Some languages are angelic and need interpretation.

Verse 30

30 Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak languages? Do all interpret? 31 But zealously strive after the better gifts. And yet I show to you a more excellent way.



1Corintians 13:1-2.

1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I have become as sounding brass or a tinkling cymbal. 2 And though I have prophecies, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so as to move mountains, and do not have charity, I am nothing.

Again, some languages are angelic. There are no unfair use of figures of speech, Jesus referred to moving mountains. It is about possibility being sure.

Verses 8-9

8 Charity never fails. But if there are prophecies, they will be abolished; if tongues, they shall cease; if knowledge, it will be abolished. 9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when the perfect thing comes, then that which is in part will be caused to cease.

Prophecies and tongues are listed together and are of God.

1Corinthians 14:1-14.

1 Follow after love and desire spiritual things, but rather that you may prophesy. 2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. For no one hears, but in spirit he speaks mysteries. 3 But he who prophesies speaks to men for building up, and exhortation, and comfort. 4 The one speaking in a tongue builds himself up, but he prophesying builds up a church. 5 I wish all of you to speak in languages, but rather that you may prophesy; for greater is he prophesying than he speaking in tongues, unless he interpret so that the church may receive building up.

Tongues are not earthly language for no one can translate or understand.
Tongues while not as good for building up as prophecy, are still good. Paul wishes it for all, mature and young Christians of this age.

6 But now, brothers, if I come to you speaking in tongues, what will I profit you, except I speak to you either in revelation, or in knowledge, or in prophecy, or in teaching? 7 Yet lifeless things giving a sound, whether flute or harp, if they do not give a distinction in the sound, how will it be known what is being piped or harped? 8 For also if a trumpet gives an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself for the battle? 9 So also you, if you do not give a clear word through the language, how will it be known what is being said? For you will be speaking into the air. 10 So it may be many kinds of sounds are in the world, and not one is without a distinct sound. 11 Therefore if I do not know the power of the sound, I will be a foreigner to him speaking, and he speaking will be a foreigner to me. 12 Even so you, since you are zealots of spiritual things, seek to build up the church, in order that you may abound 13 So then he speaking in a language, let him pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.

Accepting tongues should be normal, but prophecy and knowledge are greater.

15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the mind;

Conclusion of Paul in the Spirit, pray in the Spirit and pray from the mind, do both.
 
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Righttruth

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Errr. . . so you are acknowledging that your opinions are merely based on a collection of old wives fables which by default means that the Corinthians were reflecting Biblical practice; maybe you should go back and read my comment again!

I understand your zeal to know the truth. However, what can be known from an unknown tongue with fruitless mind? It is like four blind men trying to describe an elephant by touching four different parts of the animal. No point is served if each one were to study in detail the part he is touching and trying describe the whole elephant! That may amount to delusion!
 
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GoldenKingGaze

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I understand your zeal to know the truth. However, what can be known from an unknown tongue with fruitless mind? It is like four blind men trying to describe an elephant by touching four different parts of the animal. No point is served if each one were to study in detail the part he is touching and trying describe the whole elephant! That may amount to delusion!
Tongues is best for private prayer, together with English prayer and maybe contemplative prayer.
Tongues can be interpreted in a group, or even at home alone. I spoke to a Catholic who said he does this. But years of words of knowledge and prophecy and interpretations of tongues only competes with the Bible together with the Holy Spirit.
Still we must not omit from the Bible 1 Corinthians 12-14.
 
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tturt

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Posted: what can be known from an unknown tongue with fruitless mind?

That's the crux of the problem.

Why not accept one of the Scriptures that states the purposes of speaking in tongues? Believers magnify G_d in tongues (Acts 10:46), edifies himself (I Cor 14:4), edifies the church (I Cor 14:5), etc.
 
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Biblicist

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I understand your zeal to know the truth. However, what can be known from an unknown tongue with fruitless mind? It is like four blind men trying to describe an elephant by touching four different parts of the animal. No point is served if each one were to study in detail the part he is touching and trying describe the whole elephant! That may amount to delusion!
As for the content of the words of praise and adoration that the Holy Spirit is directing toward the Father, then I'm not all that fussed about the content but I am more than pleased to be able to pray in the Spirit; to have upwards of three members per meeting allowing the Eschatological Spirit to speaks words of praise through us, where the Spirit of God is able to give wittness that those present are members of the Body of Christ, where we are each joined together as one through the unity of the Holy Spirit is nothing less than wonderful.

As we offer up praise to the Father through the Eschatological Spirit, whether we do this in speech or in song, we are testifying that the future Kingdom of God, which is not yet, is in part, now among us.
 
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GoldenKingGaze

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Posted: what can be known from an unknown tongue with fruitless mind?

That's the crux of the problem.

Why not accept one of the Scriptures that states the purposes of speaking in tongues? Believers magnify G_d in tongues (Acts 10:46), edifies himself (I Cor 14:4), edifies the church (I Cor 14:5), etc.
Yes it is not all about mental ascent or even knowing.
 
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SavedByGrace3

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Sorry but your wrong...

Acts 2:4King James Version (KJV)
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Consider the possibility that people can and do speak in tongues by utterances other than the Holy Spirit. Demons? Even your own born again spirit.
 
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GoldenKingGaze

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Consider the possibility that people can and do speak in tongues by utterances other than the Holy Spirit. Demons? Even your own born again spirit.
It is important to test the spirits. One should know how they asked and received in the first place as discernment.
 
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SavedByGrace3

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It is important to test the spirits. One should know how they asked and received in the first place as discernment.
Of course... this is true about everything.
The 1 Corin 12 test is:
1 Corinthians 12:3
(3) Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Fairly simple and very effective!
 
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SavedByGrace3

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Lets take this further.
Not only can you speak in tongues via the utterance of your born again spirit, but you can prophesy also.

David is the best example of this:

Psalms 45:1
1 To the chief Musician upon Shoshannim, for the sons of Korah, Maschil, A Song of loves. My heart is inditing a good matter: I speak of the things which I have made touching the king: my tongue is the pen of a ready writer.



The license and methodology is found in 1 Chron 25:

1Ch 25:
1 Moreover David and the captains of the host separated to the service of the sons of Asaph, and of Heman, and of Jeduthun, who should prophesy with harps, with psalteries, and with cymbals: and the number of the workmen according to their service was:
2 Of the sons of Asaph; Zaccur, and Joseph, and Nethaniah, and Asarelah, the sons of Asaph under the hands of Asaph, which prophesied according to the order of the king.
3 Of Jeduthun: the sons of Jeduthun; Gedaliah, and Zeri, and Jeshaiah, Hashabiah, and Mattithiah, six, under the hands of their father Jeduthun, who prophesied with a harp, to give thanks and to praise the LORD.

Not only can you prophesy, but you have... many times.
 
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GoldenKingGaze

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Of course... this is true about everything.
The 1 Corin 12 test is:
1 Corinthians 12:3
(3) Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Fairly simple and very effective!
I think people can pretend to bless Jesus.
 
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Biblicist

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Consider the possibility that people can and do speak in tongues by utterances other than the Holy Spirit. Demons? Even your own born again spirit.
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned that the ONLY way that a Believer can pray in tongues is through the agency of the Holy Spirit. As for the supposed 'human' spirit, this has absolutely nothing to do with tongues in any manner or form.
 
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Biblicist

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I'm surprised that no one has mentioned that the ONLY way that a Believer can pray in tongues is through the agency of the Holy Spirit. As for the supposed 'human' spirit, this has absolutely nothing to do with tongues in any manner or form.

As to demons and other sources supposedly speaking in tongues, my posts 135, 136 and 137 should put this notion to rest.
 
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SavedByGrace3

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I'm surprised that no one has mentioned that the ONLY way that a Believer can pray in tongues is through the agency of the Holy Spirit. As for the supposed 'human' spirit, this has absolutely nothing to do with tongues in any manner or form.

It is because of this:

1 Corin 14
14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.
 
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Biblicist

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It is because of this:

1 Corin 14
14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.
Okay, now I see where you are coming from.

The text of 1Cor 14:14 is a difficult passage in the Greek where in recent years it has become popular to translate τὸ πνεῦμά μου προσεύχεται as "the S/spirit of me". This seems to be the better option where it allows for Paul saying that the agent of tongues is the Holy Spirit who resides within Paul (by default within us as well).This can be rephrased as "the Holy Spirit who resides within me"; where the capital (S) is for the Holy Spirit and the lowercase (s) is for our sentient being or our senses.

There is second less probable option where Paul could be using the term 'spirit' to refer to his sentient abilities where he is able to choose to pray.

As my understanding of the nature of man is that we are a dichotomy, where man is comprised of both a body and soul and for the Christian, where we also have the Holy Spirit residing within us, then this passage is not all that problematic for me as I have always understood, even from my earliest days, that Paul was referring to the Holy Spirit.

Theologically speaking, the Scriptures always point to the Holy Spirit as being the one who prays on our behalf in tongues to the Father, anything else is outside of accepted theology.
 
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twob4me

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