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Spilling the seed (semen) questions....

Discussion in 'Questions From Singles About Marriage' started by CounselorForChrist, Jan 5, 2012.

  1. CounselorForChrist

    CounselorForChrist Senior Veteran

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    I am engaged to someone and this question is being asked for when we are married. I want to ask now because its seems very confusing. I apologize if I am blunt about this. Theres really no other way to ask. And yes I am very serious about this. I want to make sure everything I do is correct!

    I was always taught a man should not spill his seed (semen). Which might I add confuses me when it comes to masturbation, buts thats another topic. My question(s) are/is am I taken the line about spilling the seed out of context?

    A few examples are when I am married and I use a condom, am I sinning by letting the sperm be in the condom and die off?

    Another thing along the same lines is I don't want to get my wife pregnant because of issues I don't wish to discuss. So if I pull out and let the semon spill is that a sin to?

    Lastly what about when it comes to, um... your wife using her mouth? Is this also considered a sin? Someone told me (again I apologize for the bluntness) that its a sin if she spits it out. But if she swallows then its not a sin because somewhere in the Songs of Samson (?) it talks about her eating his fruit or something.


    ---EDIT---
    I might as well ask while I have the topic up. If for some reason she gets pregant and we use the morning after pill, is that considered abortion and a sin? My health is very complex and I fear having a child as sick as me because not only will the childs life be rough, but I get SSI and cannot afford to have a child. Theres also the issue of because of my disabilities I may not be able to raise them properly. I guess I could have the dotor do that thing where the cut me so I can't have children.
     
  2. Luther073082

    Luther073082 κύριε ἐλέησον χριστὲ ἐλέησον

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    Yes, the line about spilling the seed in context was a man in the OT who had to marry, I think it was his brother's wife because his brother died. And because of that it was his responsibility to have a child with her in his brother's place so someone can inherit for his brother.

    This was a command from God that things be done like that at the time. The man apparently didn't want to do it, perhaps so he could take his brother's things for himself, perhaps because he didn't want to raise a child in his brother's name.

    Either way he slept with his brother's wife, but instead of trying to get her pregnant, he pulled out and . . . spilled his seed.

    His sin wasn't the pulling out. . . it was disobeying God.

    Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox are against this based on tradition that their church teaches. Most protestant churchs arn't against this in the context of marriage. So you are fine using a condom with you wife IMO. Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox would disagree.

    No

    No problems with that.


    You might have to get more help in this regard. There are several different types of Morning after pills and I don't think they all have a drug that could cause an abortion but some do. Many work by attempting to prevent ovulation.

    In any case though a morning after pill is considered emergency contraception. For someone who's married but not wanting to have children, the regular contraception should be figured out ahead of time. So you shouldn't need it.

    Emergency contraception is not as reliable as other forms of contraception anyways.
     
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  3. CounselorForChrist

    CounselorForChrist Senior Veteran

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  4. iambren

    iambren Newbie

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    Yeah, Luther. Good work!
     
  5. Niffer

    Niffer So...that just happened.

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    The morning after pill, stops a fertilized egg from attaching to the uterine wall.
    My belief is that life begins once an egg is fertilized, therefore taking something too effectively destroy that egg, or keep it from implanting to me is abortion.
    If you don't think condoms are a good enough resistance against pregnancy, then perhaps a vasectomy is the way to go.
    Here's some info on the pill. :)
    How Does it Work? - Morning After Pill

    Peace,
    Niff
     
  6. CounselorForChrist

    CounselorForChrist Senior Veteran

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    I could always (and probably will) just get my self snipped so I can't have kids! Although more then likley my fiance will have to get it down because my doctor is unsure of it with the stuff I have wrong. Which really sucks because I know its much more damaging for a woman to get it done. I'd much rather have it done then her.
     
  7. Bella Vita

    Bella Vita Sailor in the U.S.N

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    I personally am not against birth control methods my husband and I use the pill and condoms...

    You are fine to use a condom, pull out method, or even the pill it is not abortion or a sin. You can try to wait and have children if God wants you to have one you will no matter what method you are using. The morning after pill or Plan B is fine it will not terminate an already existing pregnancy read the fine print it will not cause an abortion.

    The man in the Bible who was in trouble for this was because in the OT you had to marry your brothers widow it was the law. He only wanted sex and no responsibility so God struck him dead for disobeying his commandment to have a family with his dead brothers wife. totally different situation from today.

    If you don;t ever want children of your own you should get snipped and be done with it.
     
  8. LinkH

    LinkH Regular Member

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    Another poster dealt with this. I agree that the sin of Onan was in not raising up seed to his brother. It was a pretty sleazy thing to do, to take as his own his his late brother's wife and sleep with her, something he was to do to have a child with her---and then engage in coitus interruptus to avoid having the child. It sounds like he just wanted the sex without the responsibility. A lot of fornicators have the same kind of attitude.

    Roman Catholics and certain Orthodox Jews believe a man should finish in the birth canal (can you use the other words on this forum?) My guess is Orthodox Jews might allow for exceptions if there were health concerns, but I am not sure. There are numerous opinions on every topic in that religion.

    Masturbation has been termed 'onanism' after Onan based on Roman Catholic interpretations that the sin was in spilling the seed. But a lot of Protestants don't think it is a sin to waste seed. There are a variety of opinions on everything. Birth control is not specifically forbidden in the Bible and Protestants tend to believe in faith and practice coming from scripture and not tradition. Roman Catholics place some weight on holy tradition in addition to scripture.

    There are special names for men and women who use this technique of birth control: Mommy and Daddy. Some experts believe that preseminal fluid can cause pregnancy.

    I don't recall that particular passage in the Song of Solomon. I would think a reference to eating fruit meaning swallowing that particular fluid would be a big stretch of interpretation. The only possible reference to this sort of oral activity in the book I have read about is the verse that talks about the woman's naval being like a goblet that never lacks mixed wine. I can understand the argument, but he could be talking about a perfect 'inny' belly-button, especially if Solomon liked their women a little chunky back then. :) The argument is based on the idea that a related word for 'naval' in Arabic was a euphemism for female private parts. To assume that is true of the cognate in Hebrew seems a huge leap in my opinion.

    I am of the opinion that once the egg cell is fertilized, we should do our best to protect human life. Many zygotes, fertilized egg cells, are lost naturally, miscarriages that no one is aware of. Luke 1 indicates that John was a human being, a baby, inside the womb. I don't have a verse for when life should be protected, but I don't think we should play around with that.

    There are several types of birth control that do or can cause abortion. here are some of them.

    The morning after pill can cause an abortion
    The pill can cause an abortion

    It can either prevent ovulation or prevent the baby from attaching to the uteral wall and therefore cause him or her to be aborted.

    The IUD in all it's various forms causes abortion

    It prevents babies from attaching to the wall of the uterus.

    Btw, I am not a doctor, but I played one on TV.
     
  9. jinksto

    jinksto Newbie

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    That's an awesome quote. Thanks for making me chuckle.

    I think everyone is pretty much right here. However, I don't agree with the use of PlanB or other "morning after" solutions. As I (personally) believe them to be an early form of abortion.

    Condoms are fine for a while (IMHO) but get to be a pain to use after a few years. Definitely seek long term solutions since you have medical disabilities as even condoms aren't 100% safe and if having a child will put you in dire straights you need to be very careful. If possible "getting snipped" is probably the easiest on both of you and is (I think) the most easily reversible if He gives you cause to doubt that decision later. Still, you've noted that physical ailments might cause this to be dangerous... follow your doctors guidance here.

    In the case of oral... um... solutions, I don't think it matters either way. Once the deed is done it doesn't matter what you do with it. Swallowing won't make the act more or less holy.

    The core argument against any form of birth control is generally Genesis 1:28 and Genesis chapter 38 which discuss the acts of Onan mentioned earlier. As others have suggested I believe Onan's sin to be disobedience rather than the act itself. Further, under new covenants this requirement doesn't exist.

    The Genesis 1:28 command (God's first command to us) is a little harder to argue but is a little less direct as well. It's up to you to decide how this applies to your faith.
     
  10. cutie76

    cutie76 Regular Member

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    I was going to ask you about having a vasectomy since it sounds like you're both very sure you do not want to have children naturally due to your illness.

    Has your fiancee talked to her OBGyn about all of the contraceptive options for her? Getting her tubes tied is very invasive and perhaps there is something else she can choose. There are implants that last for several years that may be an option too.

    Just a thought.
     
  11. imperfection91

    imperfection91 Member

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    I marvel why you are all removed from the grace of Christ unto lasciviousness...
    All things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables;
    and without a parable spake he not unto them (Mat. 13:34)

    The seed is the word of God. (Luke 8:11)
    The sower soweth the word. (Mark 4:14)

    Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables? (Luke 4:13)
    Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin;
    for his seed (Greek sperma) remains in him:
    and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
    But whoso keeps his word,
    in him verily is the love of God perfected:
    hereby know we that we are in him.
    Being born again, not of corruptible seed,
    but of incorruptible, by the word of God,
    which liveth and abideth for ever.

    MANY OF US CLAIM TO BE BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS,
    YET WE CORRUPT THE SEED OF GOD, AND DON'T HAVE HIS WORD ABIDING IN US.
    OUR SPERMA MUST REMAIN IN US AND WE MUST TRANSMUTE IT.
    Christ (the anointed) is in us, and we are not of your own.

    Every one of us should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour (1 Thes. 4:4)
    But the anointing (Greek chrisma) which ye have received of him abides in you,
    and ye need not that any man teach you:
    but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie,
    and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
    Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness,
    and receive with meekness the engrafted word,
    which is able to save your souls.

    I DISCUSSED THE GRAND PARABLE HOW CHRIST SAID THE WORD IS THE SEED.
    IF WE RECEIVE THE SEED AND HAVE IT ABIDE IN US AND NOT REJECT OR EJACULATE IT,
    WE ARE RECEVING CHRIST (the annointed)
    AND I AFFIRM YOU ALL SICKNESS AND DISTRESS WILL BE WASHED AWAY WITH THIS ANNOINTING.

    ----------------------------------------

    Many times the Old Testament mentions oil, olive oil, ointment, and translates it to SHEMEN, where we get the word SEMEN, which is truly the anointing oil. The bible is a God-given book about sexology. We Christians try more to profit from always remembering the obvious than from grasping the esoteric.

    There is treasure to be desired
    and oil (shemen)in the dwelling of the wise;
    but a foolish man spendeth it up.
    — Proverb 21:20

    Let thy garments be always white;
    and let thy head lack no ointment (shemen).
    Ecclesiastes 9:8

    Psalm 23:5
    Thou preparest a table before me
    in the presence of mine enemies:
    thou anointest my head with oil (shemen);
    my cup runneth over.

    Psalm 45:7
    Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness:
    therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee
    with the oil (shemen) of gladness above thy fellows.

    Song 1:3
    Because of the savour of thy good ointments (shemen)
    thy name is as ointment (shemen) poured forth,
    therefore do the virgins love thee.

    Isaiah 1:6
    From the sole of the foot even unto the head
    there is no soundness in it;
    but wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores:
    they have not been closed, neither bound up,
    neither mollified with ointment (shemen).


    I CANNOT GRASP HOW IMPORTANT IT IS FOR US CHRISTIANS TO GET THIS CONCEPT DOWN.
    THIS IS THE GREAT WORK, AND WE DON'T FULFILL IT OUR SPIRITUAL PURSUIT IS TRULY IN VAIN.
    INSTEAD OF HAVING THE SHEMEN TRAVEL DOWNWARDS TO OUR LOWER NATURE,
    WE MUST TRANSMUTE THIS TREASURE DWELLING IN US MAKE IT TRAVEL UPWARD TOWARDS THE HEAD TO AWAKEN MAN LATENT BRAIN CELLS AND NERVES AND GANGLIA IN OUR NECKS.
    "Cerebrate the Semen; Seminate the brain" thats the motto

    Isaiah 10:27 And it shall come to pass in that day,
    that his burden shall be taken away from off thy shoulder,
    and his yoke from off thy neck,
    and the yoke shall be destroyed
    because of the anointing (shemen).


    Isaiah 5:24 Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble,
    and the flame consumeth the chaff,
    so their root shall be as rottenness,
    and their blossom shall go up as dust:
    because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts,
    and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.
    -----------------------------------------------------------

    F.R.C.
    Fratres Roris Cocti
    (brothers of boiled dew)

    MANY TIMES THE BIBLE MENTIONS DEW. THIS IS THE SAME DEW IS HEAVENLY AND ITS THE SEMEN/SPERM WHICH WE MUST BOIL BY KEEPING IT IN US AND RESISTING THE TEMPTATION OF EJECTING IT. I must mention there are tantric rites where the couple can engage in sex and achieve multiple orgasms without spilling the seed (the gravrst of the sins, next to murder if you will). Some guys finish last, some men don't finish at all. In India it is said if you can make your wife have an orgasm 9 times, then truly you are the man. But you need to look that up your own and study it. Instead of wasting this precious gift in a rubber then throwing it away, or in your wifes mouth (sorry to be blunt) btw, here's a thought-provoking question: Semen is sometimes called flesh, and it truly is our flesh; if we bust it in our partners mouth, is that considered cannibalism? Since she'd be eating human flesh. ;) o_0 things to think about...

    Gen. 27:28 God give thee of the dew of heaven,
    and the fatness of the earth.

    Job 19:20-21 My root was spread out by the waters,
    and the dew lay all night upon my branch.

    My glory was fresh in me,
    and my bow was renewed in my hand.

    Song 5:2 Open to me, my love, my undefiled:
    for my head is filled with dew,
    and my locks with the drops of the night.

    Hosea 14:5 I will be as the dew unto Israel:
    he shall grow as the lily,
    and cast forth his roots as Lebanon.

    Zechariah 8:12 For the seed shall be prosperous;
    the vine shall give her fruit,
    and the ground shall give her increase,
    and the heavens shall give their dew

    Isaiah 61:1-3 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me;
    because the LORD hath anointed me
    to preach good tidings unto the meek;
    he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted,
    to proclaim liberty to the captives,
    and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

    to proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD,
    and the day of vengeance of our God;
    to comfort all that mourn;

    to appoint unto them that mourn in Zion,
    to give unto them beauty for ashes,
    the oil (shemen) of joy for mourning,
    the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness;
    that they might be called trees of righteousness,
    the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.



    MY BROTHER, I TOOK 30 minutes to put this together for you, out of love. Please take the time to think about these things.
    There are many things i can talk about and mention and expound, but it is for you as a sincere christian to search the scriptures on your own with an open heart with two eye. I will leave you with one more verse. It is about Onan, the first to be mentioned in the bible about spilling seed. That's where we got the word Onanism from, which means masturbation.

    GENESIS 38 [7] And Er, Judah’s firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the LORD; and the LORD slew him. [8] And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother’s wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother. [9] And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother’s wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother. [10] And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also.


    PS. Leviticus 15 is a whole chapter dedicated to issue running out of the flesh and seed of copulation going out of men, I suggest you read and ponder that. God bless
     
  12. DaveW-Ohev

    DaveW-Ohev Our four grandaughters

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    Hmmm. I have never met a protestant (prior to the mid 1970s) that thought "M" was in any way acceptable. In fact I heard growing up that it was "the only sin so evil it cannot even be mentioned in a Holy Bible;" and "better to cast your seed into the belly of a whore than spill it on the ground."

    Many popular foods were originally developed in an effort to minimize the sex drive and thereby reduce the desire to masturbate. Among them Kellogg's Corn Flakes and Graham crackers. In the mid to late 1800s there were many gruesome devices designed and patented to prevent masturbation.

    Presbyterian pastor Charles Shedd shocked the protestant world in his book in the early 1970s when he said that "M" may be God's gift to singles to help with the sex drive. He was denounced for it, as was James Dobson as he said something similar in his video series (1976) called "Focus on the Family." He later wrote the same in his book "Preparing for Adolescence." Dobson did not draw as much ire as Shedd as he was extremely humble in his approach to the subject.

    But they did pave the way for a more sane approach to the issue which has been slowly (TOO slowly IMO) gaining ground in protestantism.

    But many pockets of extreme anti-M still exist. It is a driving force behind the more extreme modesty (for women) dress codes in many churches. Popular TV family the Dugars teach that. Josh's younger brother was once discovered by his dad doing the deed in the bathroom. He was whipped, then shamed before the whole family and given EVERYONE's chores for several days.
     
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  13. DaveW-Ohev

    DaveW-Ohev Our four grandaughters

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    This entire post is a good example of how scripture has been twisted into meaning something it was never intended to say.

    I also encourage you (and this poster) to read Leviticus 15. Or read it AGAIN.

    16 Now if a man has a seminal emission, he shall bathe all his body in water and be unclean until evening.
    ...
    18 If a man lies with a woman so that there is a seminal emission, they shall both bathe in water and be unclean until evening.

    Verse 16 applies to any ejac, whether my intentional masturbation, stimulation by someone else, or a wet dream. And note that verse 18 includes sex between husband and wife. The "remedy" is identical. And regular marital relations are COMMANDED in scripture, both testaments. So as far as this passage goes, God treats masturbating the same as marital sex.
     
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  14. dayhiker

    dayhiker Mature veteran

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    context context context
    apples aren't oranges aren't peaches unless the context is a metaphor!

    :)
     
  15. Hotinco

    Hotinco Member

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    The Scripture most frequently pointed to in regards to masturbation is the story of Onan in Genesis 38:9-10. Some interpret this passage as saying that “spilling your seed” on the ground is a sin. However, that is not precisely what the passage is saying. God condemned Onan not for “spilling his seed” but because Onan refused to fulfill his duty to provide an heir for his brother. The passage is not about masturbation or spilling of seed, but rather about fulfilling a family duty.

    Also keep in mind we are not under the old testament law, but live under the Grace of Jesus Christ. You will hear from many people how this is right or wrong. You need to come to a conclusion on your own based on Biblical fact not ANY one persons interpretation. As for oral sex, just read Song of Solomon, pretty graphic when you understand what they are talking about.

    So here is a good base to start your thoughts on - What happens in agreement between a husband and wife - provided it is just the tow of you- there is no biblical reason not to do it. God doe snot speak out against anything between a husband and wife. When you start to involve others is when you get into an area of sin - weather that is from pornography, a third person , swapping etc.


    As marriage Facilitators we hear these things way to often. How guilty young and old couples feel individually and as a couple for engaging in sexual acts. As Christians we need stop the guilt trips and start listening to the bible. I can see from your question the embarrassment in just asking. This should be something we talk more openly about, in the appropriate settings of course. Sex inside of marriage should be enjoyed not create stress and guilt.

    The key to this is Mutual arrangement....

    Here are a few resources to help you on this journey - remember as your relationship grows so will your desires for each other and your comfort level. I promise in the beginning (unless one or both of you have past experiences) it will be a lights off lets do this fast kinda thing.

    http://site.themarriagebed.com/
     
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  16. RedPonyDriver

    RedPonyDriver Professional Pot Stirrer

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    If you're that worried about a possible conception, go get fixed...end of the worries.
     
  17. DaveW-Ohev

    DaveW-Ohev Our four grandaughters

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    To the OP:

    I think RedPony has a good idea. But talk to your fiancee FIRST. Discuss all your concerns, the health issues and the finances as well. Getting a vasectomy is an old and very mature technology with few problems.

    Since you are engaged, have you started your pre-marital counseling yet?
     
  18. Si_monfaith

    Si_monfaith Active Member

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    Too much law! Know, Jesus destroyed the law & made us his own-rom7:1-6. thinking based on Right & wrong is becz adam chose knowledg of gud & evil. Thank Jesus for all pleasures. We are new creation inlived by him-gal2:20.
     
  19. LinkH

    LinkH Regular Member

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    From your past posts, I recall your being involved in a 'heavy shepherding' charismatic movement in the 1980's. I was raised Pentecostal with a little bit of time with charismatics growing up in the '70's and '80's. My family moved a lot. One town had a Charismatic church, but not a Pentecostal one. One Assemblies of God I went to in the mid-1980's had a super long series in the youth group about love sex and dating. I think there was one sermon that dealt with masturbation and homosexuality. (I remember a kid in my class at the Christian school associated with the church peaked and said a teacher's daughter raised her hand over the masturbation thing when everyone's eyes were closed and the preacher asked who wanted prayer.)

    Another church I went to for a while in the 1990's had a couple of pastors over the years who'd pastored a large Church of God (Cleveland), and they are now A/G. A guest speaker there one time said that masturbation was a sin, but that it was 'unclean'. (I don't know why he said that. Marital sex made both man and wife 'unclean' if the seed spilled in the Old Testament.)

    I think that's all I ever heard in church on masturbation. I don't think the heavy shepherding group you were with was typical of the charismatic movement, much less evangelicalism. There are a wide variety of views. The norm for Pentecostals seems to just never bring up the topic of masturbation.

    I read on a forum once where one guy who went to a Pentecostal church felt convicted and gave a testimony saying he'd repented for masturbating, and some of the guys didn't want to shake his hand after that. I don't know if he was joking about that last part, though.

    For the most part, it isn't mentioned much in church in my experience. James Dobson's book that says that it isn't a sin may have been as about an influential thing out there as you can find.

    I heard a campus preacher confess to masturbating and preach against it. It wasn't 'Brother Jim' or 'Brother Jed' if any of you went to school when guys like that preached around campuses (Brother Jed was still making the rounds as recently as '08), but he might have known them or have been from a similar background.

    Maybe Americans are so obsessed with sex because of the honey flavor the put in the graham crackers to make them taste good. :) I wouldn't be surprised if there are web sites that sell those devices these days, but not for the same purpose.

    Do you really think so? No matter one's view on masturbation, it's more tempting for a man to look with lust at a beautiful girl in a bikini than in if she's wearing a tent dress and an Amish bonnet.

    Did that make it on air?
     
  20. DaveW-Ohev

    DaveW-Ohev Our four grandaughters

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    Mid 70s to mid 80s. Personally had one on one conversations with Derek Prince, Charles Simpson and Don Basham. (was briefly in a band with Basham's son and son-in-law)

    My wife was mainstream A/G. Before the Shepherding congregation, I was independent pentecostal. While M was never spoken of directly, there was plenty of literature that talked about it in horrific terms.
    Perhaps. But when Charles Shedd (a Presby pastor) wrote circa 1969 that M may have been "God's gift to singles," he received death threats from other "good evangelicals."
     
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