Spanking.....

[Dave-W]

Spanking is a legitimate tool in the box of discipline. Use it when called for.

"When called for" is a very subjective standard.

One of my dad's objectives was to make me unable to cry. SO taking me near to the point of unconsiousness and hold there just short of that for extended periods (with no crying from me) to him was entirely called for given his objective.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

I think if the church had a class or sermon on when spanking is needed it might help more. As someone else said there are those who use it every chance they get. Others do it when really angry. Some use a wooden board and hit you until your are in a ton of pain.

 

[ValleyGal]

Imo, when this subject comes up, it is normally accompanied by the question "how far is too far". Until recent history, this has never been legislated, but as far as I'm concerned, any "discipline" that requires this question (and without asking it, can lead to abuse), then the "discipline" method needs to be changed.

I recently started a new job (February). I now teach a parenting course, and talk with the participants in individual sessions. I'm currently nearing the end of the first course, which is about attachment-based parenting. If you are a parent who creates a safe and secure attachment with your children (this is accomplished through attunement and meeting their needs, which creates a safe, trusting relationship), then you likely will never need to "spank" your children. If your children experience a safe parent most of the time, they are likely to become avoidant, ambivalent, or worse, disorganized in their attachment styles. This means that the "safe" person is also the "unsafe" person, and they learn that "love" is sleeping with hitting, yelling, etc. Children's attachment styles will affect their adult relationships.

When you use attachment-based parenting, you create a safe relationship where you seize opportunities (such as misbehaviour) as a time for teaching your children and setting firm, clear, concise boundaries with an explanation of the consequences. When children learn this kind of trusting attachment, they are likely to listen. Misbehaviour becomes little more than the attempt to push boundaries and maybe assert more developmental independence.

Spanking is not illegal in my country, as long as there is no physical damage or markings. That's fine, but the damage it can do to their trust in you as the safe parent will absolutely be affected. Use the proverbial "rod" to guide, to teach, to build character so that they grow up to become self-disciplined and intrinsically rewarded rather than fear-motivated. When you discipline your children, do nothing that will give them any reason to question your relationship with them.

 

[Julie.S]

I would not spank my children. My parents got spanked sometimes I believe and they never laid a hand on me like that when I was a kid. I got things taken away like my N64 or watching TV. That actually looking back on it was a good way to do it.

It also forced me to not watch TV and do something else like go outside. You can use that to get kids to go outside and play or read more.

 

[Mudinyeri]

... the damage it can do to their trust in you as the safe parent will absolutely be affected.

I am at the point in my life where I am "parenting" my own parents. Their health - both physical and mental - is failing. My step-father, who used to beat me, doesn't trust me. In his weakened mental and physical state, his guilt related to abusing me has overtaken his logic and he believes I am "out to get him" when, in fact, nothing could be further from the truth.

 

[Papias]

OR:

Hebrews 12:11 All discipline for the moment seems not to be joyful, but sorrowful; yet to those who have been trained by it, afterwards it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness.

While the scripture (see Pr, Ps, and esp. Heb. 12) are clear that hitting children is what you are supposed to do, the data is clear that spanking causes similar harm as what everyone agrees is abuse.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/faitho...-finds-spanking-causes-similar-harm-as-abuse/

Just like the scripture says that you can't wear mixed cloth or have slaves, it's clearly just plain wrong today and should not be followed literally.

In Christ-

Papias

 

[blackribbon]

I spanked. It was not abuse. It was only for direct defiance...that is it. Only my husband and I were allowed to do it. We could not be angry at the time. Three swats on the butt was it. The child had to get into "spanking position" on his/her own (the much harder punishment because it involved a bowing of wills). Spanking position was bent over the couch with bottom up. It was always over clothes. Afterwards, the child had to tell us what they did wrong (so we knew that they knew what they were being punished for). They had to apologize. And then we held them and told them we loved them, just not the behavior. I once spent 3 hours standing in the corner with my daughter (age 4 or 5) waiting for her to decide to get in spanking position. It was probably one of the last times she ever was spanked and she has mostly been a joy every sense. She was a very strong willed child until that very long day where we missed swimming lessons and who knows what else. She is now 17 years old. She is confident, successful, obedient, and independent. I am constantly getting compliments about what a kind girl she is and a joy to be around. She considers me her confidante and "safe place" in this tough world so I don't think it scarred her one bit.

Spanking is not nor should it be a way to release your frustrations for child-like behavior. It should not injury the child. A child should be able to know the difference between what they did wrong and their own intrinsic self worth. The rules should be consistent and known. (Don't punish a child for not "knowing" something, even if you think it should be common sense...they are kids and don't have common sense yet). And child should always know they are loved even when they have made a bad decision.

 

[Dave-W]

While the scripture (see Pr, Ps, and esp. Heb. 12) are clear that hitting children is what you are supposed to do, the data is clear that spanking causes similar harm as what everyone agrees is abuse. ..... it's clearly just plain wrong today and should not be followed literally.

So kids are different today than they were 2000 years ago? Is that not this exactly:

Mark 7:13a ...invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down...

 

[Papias]

So kids are different today than they were 2000 years ago? Is that not this exactly:

Mark 7:13a ...invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down...

So it's OK for us to sell our daughters into slavery as per Ex 21? Or have slaves? Kill kids who hit their father or mother? And so on? Hey, those daughters are the same today as back then, right?

Papias

 

[Dave-W]

Hey, those daughters are the same today as back then, right?

Give me SCRIPTURE that says it should be different.

 

[Papias]

Give me SCRIPTURE that says it should be different.

OK, then, give me scripture that says it should be different to sell our daughters into slavery as per Ex 21. Or have slaves. Kill kids who hit their father or mother. And so on. Hey, those daughters are the same today as back then, right?

 

[nerfherder]

I was spanked but we do not spank our kids because we both agree it's not correct for us. We don't fault others for doing it as long as it's not abusive but it's not how we choose to raise our kids. Plus two are special needs so spanking would most likely have the opposite effect we may be going for.

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

edited.

 

[ValleyGal]

While the scripture (see Pr, Ps, and esp. Heb. 12) are clear that hitting children is what you are supposed to do, the data is clear that spanking causes similar harm as what everyone agrees is abuse.


In Christ-

Papias

"Discipline" in those verses are not synonymous with "spanking." Since this is the advice forum, I don't want to get into debate, but I just needed to point out that discipline is about teaching self-discipline. Iow, it is teaching and guiding, setting boundaries and limits.

Hebrews 12 talks about how God disciplines us like his own children, but he never, ever "spanks" us.

 

[kmrichard7]

As far as I'm aware spanking is still perfectly legal in the US. States vary in their laws and definitions of spanking but generally speaking spanking is still acceptable.
I'll start my opinion with my history... I was spanked with a switch, hand, and belt. I got beat. I wasn't just spanked but I was beat. Black and blue. Not only was I beat but my brothers were hit in the face, given black eyes, and the spankings were without pants or underwear inflicted by the moms boyfriend who would then ground us to our rooms for the remainder of the night and refuse to let us out to see out mom. He also denied the spankings and forbid us to tell her. These spankings were daily and over such small instances like the base boards not being spotless every day. He was horrific and I swore off ever spanking a child.
And then I had a child. And she was so easy and so wonderful that the most I ever did was pop her hand once when she slapped me in the face at church (she was two and testing waters, she never touched me again after that- nor had any real temper tantrums or ever gets into trouble). So spanking wasn't on my agenda ever.
Then I had my second child who is two. I've spanked her about 10 times already. Little child has one heck of a temper and is rebellious as I don't know what. Very hard headed and wont listen and I've popped her bottom about 10 times total but she's even gone so far as to laugh at me because I just can't bring myself to make it hurt, I go for the shock factor.

I really think every child is different and so long as the spanking is coming from a place of correction and love and not anger and frustration spanking can be necessary and even helpful.

 

[Kit Sigmon]

Israel turned from God and his commandments, God raised
up other nations and or people to "spank" his erring children.

These days it's the children "spanking" their parents!
I get disgusted with what I see going on at the malls,
little children cussing up a blue streak, striking their parent.
Moms or dads either ignore that or they reply with cussing and then
they give in and buy their "little darlings" whatever they want.
It's just as bad with teens and their parents.
I try to go to the mall during the week, just so I can avoid
all that.

Even churches have their hands full with undisciplined children
and teens. It's hard to get volunteers to work in the nursery
or head up the teen programs...the mouthy children know the law is on their
side and that leaves the church too scared to do anything because it don't want to offend anybody
nor do they want to get sued or whatever.

 

[ValleyGal]

I think we all know that you are speaking figuratively when you say God raised up other nations to "spank" his people. But when we speak of today's parents, we are not speaking figuratively. If we are literally discussing spanking our children, we absolutely can't say that God literally spanks his children.

Most misbehaviour is nothing more than children trying to communicate some need to their parents. Parents are not attuned to their children anymore; instead they are attuned to their cell phones - and so they can't interpret what the message is that the child is trying to communicate. So you have all these kids out there with unmet needs, and disengaged parents. Parents today need to be taught to engage their children, to learn how to interpret their children's messages, to meet their children's needs, to teach their children, guide them and set appropriate boundaries for them. Parents need to be taught how to have a secure relationship with their children.

 

[kmrichard7]

Most misbehaviour is nothing more than children trying to communicate some need to their parents. Parents are not attuned to their children anymore; instead they are attuned to their cell phones - and so they can't interpret what the message is that the child is trying to communicate. So you have all these kids out there with unmet needs, and disengaged parents. Parents today need to be taught to engage their children, to learn how to interpret their children's messages, to meet their children's needs, to teach their children, guide them and set appropriate boundaries for them. Parents need to be taught how to have a secure relationship with their children.

This is SO true!
I have gotten so frustrated late at night because my toddler wont stay in bed at 3am and I can't get any sleep and while she's grabbing at her throat to tell me she's thirsty all I'm seeing is a crying baby trying to stay up all night and I get frustrated. When I try and understand what she needs and is saying it is always an easy fix with no frustration and everyone is happy. I work on this but I'm not perfect.
Most misbehavior can easily be corrected by just being in tune with your child and how they communicate.

 

[Kit Sigmon]

I'm speaking of the parents and children I have seen, the parents weren't on cellphones.
Many of them I know can't afford cellphones...they barely keeping themeselves going.

Nowadays the boyfriends or whatever buy their love interests cellphones or whatever.
If the mom say they can't go somewhere on a school night the girl or guy will text
for a friend to pick them up. They sneak out.

Too many online will gladly help them out, I've seen that first hand.
It's crazy!
I don't know how parents can parent when the child can go crash with
a friend and live at their place as long as they like, just as long as they go
to school.

A friend of mine's daughter, her boyfriend bought the girl a car because her
mom couldn't afford to. She's been divorced a long time and the ex
don't know nothing about paying child support. Nobody knows where he is.

Her mom works hard and tries to raise the daughter up right, she teach her the
bible and try to get her to go to church and all. It would be nice if there was
a decent father figure around but who can find a man who wouldn't take advantage
of a teen girl these days?
What's your solution to this ValleyGal?

 

[Kit Sigmon]

Try being in tune when the child is a teen and got their eyes on
their love interest...most of them up to no good.

You can be in tune with little ones but when they get older and
start mixing with others their age...Lord help us when they fall
in love with a rough neck!