Is Spanking Teenagers for Discipline Appropriate?

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~Anastasia~

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I agree with you that a lack of discipline at home can produce monsters. By the same token the child who is abused at home becomes the bully at school. They cannot defend and express their anger at home so they taken it out on someone they can.
My grandson was the beating post for such a child. My daughter also ran into this at a pre-school where she worked. The little boy's misbehavior, and even violence, was erratic. Upon talking to the mom and tracking the dates of his behaviors it was discovered that when his older stepbrother was staying with them was when he acted out. The older brother had been beating up on him and threatened him not to tell.
I'm sure you are aware of this but I thought I'd bounce off your post and include this with your insight.
You're absolutely right. It's really such a complex issue with many facets.

Human nature seems to make it difficult to use corporal punishment in a good, healthy way. I can't really speak very much to it, because my family used it in a wrong way, and I could barely bring myself to carry it out (believe me, I am sure I gave the weakest spanking in the history of the world!) the one time my daughter pretty much insisted I do so. As you said, it hurt me too much and I was emotionally and physically unable to carry it out.

But there are so many ways things can go wrong, and so many results of wrong punishment. Creating bullies is certainly one of them.
 
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~Anastasia~

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As long as I don't give my "real" email address or last name I'm allowed, but I don't know how to work pm on here I know how to respond to conversations but not start them

I sent you a pm. You click on a person's name to the left of their post, and it will open a box with a sort of "mini profile" and one option there is to "create conversation".

I'd rather use your screen name, if you don't mind, and no, no personal info please. PMs here create a "log" that is maintained for safety reasons, I believe, so I should make you aware of that as well.
 
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Dave-W

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If this is not the case, then that punishment is simply a case of revenge, not correction,
That would apply to any corporal punishment, whether the recipient was a Teen or not.

What about when it is used to intentionally shape a child's reactions? In my case, dad used his belt to drive all crying out of me because that was something "men do not do."

I don't think that quite falls into either category.

But that was also way before I was a teenager.

I do remember one time my mom tried to spank me as a teen. She broke her paddle on about the 3rd or 4th hit and I fell over laughing. It did not hurt at all.
 
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Hank77

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That would apply to any corporal punishment, whether the recipient was a Teen or not.
Yes, it does.
What about when it is used to intentionally shape a child's reactions? In my case, dad used his belt to drive all crying out of me because that was something "men do not do."
Totally misguided and imo, cruel.
I heard a father, one time, say those words to a little boy of 4, who had fallen off his bike and bloodied his knee and hand. I really, really wanted to bloody the father's mouth and nose.
 
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Blue Wren

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My mom was spanked as a teenager right until she was 18 and engaged to marry my father. Her last spanking probably affected her the most. She was late coming home because my dad was on a missions assignment. She was with him and had no way to contact her parents. She tried in vein to help my dad understand how she couldn't be late but he had no idea why she was so anxious. He simply said her dad would understand because he was a pastor. She was too embarrassed to tell him what would happen if she came home late. They ended up coming home in the wee hours of the morning. My grandpa was pleasant to my dad, listened to what had happened and seemed fine. Once my dad left, my grandpa gave my mom one of the worst spankings she had ever received from him. :(
It took my mom years to get over it and it wasn't until my older brother was born when my mom even told my dad about it. It's taken years for my mom and grandpa to repair their relationship but thankfully they have. It's so hard for me to see my grandpa as someone who would do that to his 18 year old daughter. He's a completely different person now. He explained the pressures he was under as a pastor and how people judged him all the time. My mom was the youngest girl and had older rebellious sisters. Her dad felt he had let his older girls run wild and it was his fault. He had purposed in his mind to not let it happen to his youngest child. Parenting is hard I guess and being a pastor makes it even harder...that stupid fishbowl mentality...your life is on stage for all to see and judge.

It is such a pity, that a cycle, it has repeated itself, in your family. I remember, very well, the thread, in the Baptist section, about your father, spanking you. It had affected you, deeply, just as with your grandfather, abusing your mum. Your father, he is a pastor, also, yes? You, are 18. Engaged to be married. Same, also, as with your mum. I felt, so terrible for you, reading what you wrote. Confused, also, as it is so abnormal, to me. In Sweden, spanking a child, of any age, that is strictly prohibited. To beat a teenage woman, that is not punishment, no. That is domestic assault. It was unbelievable, to me, that your father, did this, to you. You had written, at the same time, all these posts, that were disparaging, of women. You wrote, that women, they are built with leaks in them. Women, they are not capable, of being leaders. Women, they are not to work, outside the home. Women, they are to be submissive & obedient, to their husbands. Etc, etc. I admit, that I was suspicious, of you, then. This made me suspect, if maybe, you were secretly, a man, pretending to a woman, making up a bizarre story, about dominating, abusing a poor girl. This sort of thing, it does happen, on the internet. I know now, that this, it is not so. I think, those posts, about women, maybe, it pieces together, with the abuse, of you, and your mum?

Does your mum know, about these sick punishments, from your father? Does she realise, how traumatising, they are, for you? I read your thread again, in the spring. When I knew, that you were true. I cried. I do not cry, so often. Your heart-break, from what he's done, to you, it was so clear. If your mum, if she was abused, in her teens, by her father, the same way, it is hard to understand, why she has not protected you. Why, would she let, the same thing, happen to you. Why, your father, would do that, to you, knowing, how traumatising, it had been, to his wife. Even, if your father, if he doesn't beat you, as savagely, it's still, very obvious, that it is harmful. That was very evident, yes. If your mum feels, she must be submissive, to your father, as his wife, maybe this is why, she did not stand up, to him, to protect you. She is in grave error. Jesus, he would not find this, to be acceptable, no. Wives, they do not have to accept, such things, against themselves, or their children. She has the duty, to not let him, mistreat you. It's also, illegal, yes? I remember that, being discussed, on your thread. The laws, in Canada. I do not understand, a pastor, breaking the law, especially, in such a way. It is beyond defence.

I want you to know, that it is permissible, for you to stand up, for yourself. You can love your father, and still, refuse to accept, his abuse. That's not being disobedient, no. You do not have to accept abuse, from anyone. This, you need to know. It is not true, that women, have to be submissive, to their husbands, when they are doing something wrong, no. I want you to know, if you marry, have children, that you can tell your husband, no, if he does the same thing, to them. You can keep this cycle, from repeating itself, again.
 
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Saricharity

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For the record, my father has never abused me, Blue Wren. EVER.
I also never said women weren't capable to be leaders. I believe both genders have God given roles. Men were created to be leaders in the home. That is biblical. I have no problem with submission. Also biblical. I was upset when I posted that thread and I regret that.
I'm sorry it upset you so much. If I could delete it, I would. Sometimes I think we truly misunderstand each other or something gets lost in translation. I know you have a kind heart and mean well. I do prefer that you speak privately to me about things you wish to say to me regarding this. Thanks so much.
 
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Dave-W

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Jennae - thank you for setting the record straight here. If you want a thread (or just your posts) deleted, I think all you have to do is ask a MOD or admin to do it.

As to your request to discuss things in private - that is a very mature and biblical approach. In Messianism, we teach against lashon hara or the evil tongue; as do our traditional Jewish brothers. That is saying something that would denigrate a person in someone else's eyes. (even if it is true)

On another note : I did not realize you were engaged. CONGRATS!!!! Do you have a date set?
 
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Blue Wren

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For the record, my father has never abused me, Blue Wren. EVER.
I also never said women weren't capable to be leaders. I believe both genders have God given roles. Men were created to be leaders in the home. That is biblical. I have no problem with submission. Also biblical. I was upset when I posted that thread and I regret that.
I'm sorry it upset you so much. If I could delete it, I would. Sometimes I think we truly misunderstand each other or something gets lost in translation. I know you have a kind heart and mean well. I do prefer that you speak privately to me about things you wish to say to me regarding this. Thanks so much.

This is confusing, to me. What you wrote, in your posts, about your father beating you, that was abuse, yes, of course. It is illegal, also, yes? You were traumatised, clearly. If you told a judge, where you live, about this, would that judge, call it abuse? Yes. It's important, that you realise, your father's crazy punishments, they are not acceptable. Are you saying, what you wrote, about what he does, it was not true? I made friends, with your friend. I had told her, my doubts. She said, you had told, the truth.

You did say, that you didn't think, women were capable, of being leaders. If this, is not what you truly believe, then that makes me glad, yes. Being submissive, that's your choice. It's not Biblical, to do nothing, when a parent, is mistreating their child, no. You need to know, that you do not submit, to abuse, or mistreatment. This is important, Jennae. Very important, for you to know. It makes me worried, for you.

I would have spoken privately, to you, if that was possible, yes. It is not. You changed your privacy settings. I thought, this was okay, to write here, as you are writing, so openly.
 
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Saricharity

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Jennae - thank you for setting the record straight here. If you want a thread (or just your posts) deleted, I think all you have to do is ask a MOD or admin to do it.

As to your request to discuss things in private - that is a very mature and biblical approach. In Messianism, we teach against lashon hara or the evil tongue; as do our traditional Jewish brothers. That is saying something that would denigrate a person in someone else's eyes. (even if it is true)

On another note : I did not realize you were engaged. CONGRATS!!!! Do you have a date set?

Thanks. :) We haven't set a date yet but I am very happy indeed. Justin is a wonderful person and I am blessed. We likely will wait for many years yet as we both are young and want to get our education first. :)
Blue Wren is meaning well and is very sweet. I know she isn't meaning to denigrate but is posting out of genuine concern. My post along time ago was a vent and a rant and I regret it very much. However, I have learned that I should think very carefully before I post publicly.
 
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Saricharity

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Blue Wren, I have followed you which I believe will allow you to message me. I cannot message you either because of your privacy settings. If you don't wish to message me privately, please let me know. I just would rather not discuss this in the open forum. I have made mistakes before that I wish not to repeat.
 
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Dave-W

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. :) We haven't set a date yet but I am very happy indeed. Justin is a wonderful person and I am blessed. We likely will wait for many years yet as we both are young and want to get our education first. :)
Understood. In general I do not like long engagements but that is your choice. I am very happy for you.
Blue Wren is meaning well and is very sweet. I know she isn't meaning to denigrate but is posting out of genuine concern. My post along time ago was a vent and a rant and I regret it very much. However, I have learned that I should think very carefully before I post publicly.
I read something this morning that applies to this. A few months ago we started receiving the Washington Jewish Weekly newspaper - addressed to "Resident." In yesterday's edition there was a story which involved lashon harah - the evil tongue. It contained what the author called "The Pillow Parable."

There was a guy who got really upset at his rabbi and started talking all over the city about how bad the rabbi was. A few months later he thought about it, felt bad about it and went to the rabbi to apologize. The rabbi did not accept his apology. But he told him to take a pillow, open it up and shake all the feathers out. It was a windy day and they were scattered and carried for miles. The rabbi told him to now go and retrieve every feather and put them back into the pillow. "But that is impossible!" the man declared.

"Just as impossible as retrieving the hurtful words you spoke," said the rabbi.


Submission is not a horrible thing. It is a blessing to submit to your husband and to authorities over you. Submission isn't subjugation or controlling. It is a very beautiful thing within a marriage. I see it portrayed everyday. It blends perfectly when two people are trusting God. Men are not to Lord over their wives but to love and lead like Christ.
That is always an interesting conversation. I have known men who take that to the extreme that they believe their wives are slaves. Some denominations even teach it that way.

My take on the subject is this: any man who insists on his wife submitting to him had better be prepared to submit himself to the same degree to his congregational leadership - based on this verse:

Hebrews 13:17 Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they keep watch over your souls as those who will give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with grief, for this would be unprofitable for you.
 
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Blue Wren

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I read something this morning that applies to this. A few months ago we started receiving the Washington Jewish Weekly newspaper - addressed to "Resident." In yesterday's edition there was a story which involved lashon harah - the evil tongue. It contained what the author called "The Pillow Parable."

There was a guy who got really upset at his rabbi and started talking all over the city about how bad the rabbi was. A few months later he thought about it, felt bad about it and went to the rabbi to apologize. The rabbi did not accept his apology. But he told him to take a pillow, open it up and shake all the feathers out. It was a windy day and they were scattered and carried for miles. The rabbi told him to now go and retrieve every feather and put them back into the pillow. "But that is impossible!" the man declared.

"Just as impossible as retrieving the hurtful words you spoke," said the rabbi.



That is always an interesting conversation. I have known men who take that to the extreme that they believe their wives are slaves. Some denominations even teach it that way.

My take on the subject is this: any man who insists on his wife submitting to him had better be prepared to submit himself to the same degree to his congregational leadership - based on this verse:

Hebrews 13:17 Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they keep watch over your souls as those who will give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with grief, for this would be unprofitable for you.

I am confused. Did you write this parable, to say, that I have an evil tongue? I apologise, if I am not understanding you, properly. Nothing that I have written, has been false. Nothing, has come, from anything private. It is not, to defame her father, no. I felt sad, & concerned, reading that post, about how her mum, she went through the same traumatising punishments, in her youth. I wanted, to help her. She had created threads, to seek help, about her father spanking her. I had not helped her, so much, then. She has written posts, in several threads, over this forum, about spanking. I had thought, for this reason, that she was open, to talking about it. I admit, that at first, I had suspicion, towards her. A man, in the Baptist section, he had written to her post. He accused her, of making things up, trying, to make all Christians look abusive, as it was so intense. I admit, I had thought, maybe he is right. I had been, skeptical, of her, for so long. I never accused her, of being false. I never wrote anything, to cast doubt, no. It was only in my mind, that I thought this, about her. Then I found out, that she been fully honest. What she said, that her father did to her, that was true, yes. She did not lie, about it, this, I know now. I read her thread again. It was clear, she was pained. She said, that she was shattered. I felt badly, for not having believed her, at first, not being helpful, to her. I thought of this, when I read her posts, about her mum. It felt, to me, that her mum, had been shattered, also. It is so common, for cycles of abuse, dysfunction, etc, to repeat itself. I wanted, to speak up. Late, yes, this is true. Better, than not ever, is what I thought. I could not contact her, privately, at first, because of her privacy settings. I will write to her, now, in private. I am writing now, only, as I’m confused.


I am Swedish. We mainly use, British English. The word spanking, it has a sexualised meaning. Smacking, or beating, this, is what the punishment, is called. It’s strictly forbidden, in Sweden. It has been, since the 1970s. It’s why, I had such a hard time, understanding a father, spanking, his grown daughter. Especially, as it was clear, she was badly effected, by it. To us, this is clear abuse. She says, it’s not abuse. It’s all confusing, to me. In her thread, it had been talked about, how, it’s illegal, in Canada, to spank teenagers. I had thought, this meant, that there, they saw it as abuse, also. I do not know. I was not lying, about anything. I have no reason, or desire, to slander, her father. This, I promise.


Submission, I think it also, has different meanings. I had thought it as positive, as I had understood it to mean, from the Bible. My understandings, they are not the same, as Jennae’s, I do not think. It doesn’t mean, submitting, to a husband, if that husband, he is not submitting, to the law. That verse, you shared, yes, that is true. He must be submitting, to authorities. It’s why, I wanted to say, to her, that submission, it doesn’t mean, submitting, to mistreatment, or unlawful behaviour. She has the right, to speak up. Her mum, she has that right, also.
 
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Blue Wren

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Blue Wren, I have followed you which I believe will allow you to message me. I cannot message you either because of your privacy settings. If you don't wish to message me privately, please let me know. I just would rather not discuss this in the open forum. I have made mistakes before that I wish not to repeat.

I did not realise, that my settings, wouldn’t let you, PM to me, either. Your page, was not open, when I clicked, to try to write before. I will not, write about this publicly, again. I had misunderstood, as you had written, so much, on this, openly. I thought, you were comfortable, talking about it, publicly. I understand now, yes. I hope, this is okay, with you, I asked, the question, to DavidH. I wanted, to explain myself. I have not told any lies, about you, or your father. This, I would never do.
 
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Saricharity

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Submission, I think it also, has different meanings. I had thought it as positive, as I had understood it to mean, from the Bible

Submission is very positive in every way in my understanding too. It is talked about and depicted so poorly in many circles yet it is impossible for me to see it as anything but positive. I don't want to be misunderstood elsewhere so it's probably best we don't discuss that in the open forum either. :)

I did not realise, that my settings, wouldn’t let you, PM to me, either. Your page, was not open, when I clicked, to try to write before. I will not, write about this publicly, again

Thanks very much. :)

. I had misunderstood, as you had written, so much, on this, openly. I thought, you were comfortable, talking about it, publicly.

I'm comfortable talking about the topic itself as I'm very much against it. I will always strongly advocate against it and will never choose to use it in my own family in the future.
I shouldn't have mentioned anything personal as it has cast a very bad light of how others view my dad which breaks my heart. He is a very Godly man in every way. I don't want anyone to accuse him of anything inappropriate. There are always two sides to every story. I posted when I was lost in my emotions and feeling horrible.
 
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Dave-W

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I am confused. Did you write this parable, to say, that I have an evil tongue? I apologise, if I am not understanding you, properly. Nothing that I have written, has been false.
No. I was writing that about Jennae saying what ever she said (I did not go read the other posts) that has spread a bad reputation for her father.

But it is a general warning that what we say can spread like feathers on the wind. The internet makes that process almost instantaneous.
 
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Dave-W

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Submission, I think it also, has different meanings. I had thought it as positive, as I had understood it to mean, from the Bible. My understandings, they are not the same, as Jennae’s, I do not think. It doesn’t mean, submitting, to a husband, if that husband, he is not submitting, to the law.
OK - good point. It highlights the difference between submission and obedience. Obedience is outward acts while submission is an attitude in the heart. That means one can obey without submitting and vice versa, can submit without obeying. There are 2 examples I can think of that illustrate these situations.

One is a young boy in church. He keeps standing up and his dad keeps putting him back in his seat. Finally the dad says if he does not sit down there will be consequences later after church. The boy sits down but replies: "I may be sitting down on the outside but I am still standing up on the inside." That is obeying without submitting.

The other is a wife whose husband asks her to lie on financial documents and their joint tax return to hide an amount of income; to avoid the relevant taxes. She replies "I would love to be able to obey and follow you; but what you are asking is against the law and I cannot do that." Her attitude is still submissive but she is not being obedient.

True biblical submission is not just blind obedience. When that fact is lost, it leaves the door open for all kinds of evil.
 
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Dave-W

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I felt sad, & concerned, reading that post, about how her mum, she went through the same traumatising punishments, in her youth. I wanted, to help her.
As my wife and I both experienced abuse as grade school kids, (her sexual, mine physical) we went thru a round of biblical counseling about 15 years ago. Our counselor explained how a person will unconsciously gravitate toward people similar to those from our childhood that we had un-resolved issues with; in order to resolve those situations. In the case of abuse, we gravitate toward other abusers to resolve that. It was a pattern that he had come across with almost EVERY person he counseled.

I am Swedish. We mainly use, British English. The word spanking, it has a sexualised meaning.
It does not have a sexualized meaning in American (US, Canada) usage. It is just physical punishment for disobedience. It may be light or it may be heavy. (at age 60 I still have scars ....) I do understand the issue.
 
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When I was young, my parents used to make me write and essay; I hated writing and that would be the worst punishment for me. Now I love writing so that no longer works; I am good boy now though.

Spanking...no...a smack on the bottom...yes, maybe. There are other means out there to punish your child.
Confiscating their possession or breaking them is another way.
 
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