Soul Ties?

[LinkH]

Didn't go anywhere in the grand scheme of things, did it?

I have met people who married their high school sweetheart. But I've told my children they aren't dating until they are old enough to be married, or near to it. If they find someone in college, that makes sense. But what is the point of dating if you can't marry anyway (besides fornication or using someone else for short-lived emotional fulfillment that will likely cause pain.)

My wife is Asian. I think I'm going to go for more of an Asian way of bringing up the kids when it comes to dating and marriage. A lot of it makes more sense.

 

[DZoolander]

I'm not saying that every youthful relationship is going to fail. Clearly that's not true. What I am saying is that for every one you can point to that succeeds, there has to be at least a thousand that didn't.

...and that it's foolish to go through life believing you're going to be the one instead of part of the thousand.

 

[Dave-W]

If that were the case, then the sex act alone would constitute marriage, but the Bible clearly states it does not.

Not really. Marriage is a covenant that has to be entered by our volition - our free will. The connection does not involve free will (beyond the choice to have sex) so they are not the same.

In the closing paragraphs of his booklet "Discipleship, Shepherding, Commitment ?" Derek Prince talks about the strength of various forms of commitment, and likens the discipline brought by being in the body to the pressures on a couple who have had sex. Without covenant commitment, someone may bolt and leave in either scenario, which inflicts emotional or spiritual damage in both cases.

 

[mkgal1]

Without covenant commitment, someone may bolt and leave in either scenario, which inflicts emotional or spiritual damage in both cases

Am I understanding your comment correctly? Are you suggesting that (for an example) an *unmarried* couple that are having sex and then break up are going to experience more emotional and spiritual damage than a *married* couple that have been together for years and have children that break up? "Covenant commitments" in the beginning don't always mean no one "bolts". In my opinion.....it's being betrayed that is damaging (believing a person would never do something and then they do). IOW.....it's being disillusioned that hurts (but it doesn't have to "damage" a person--reality always produces wisdom).

 

[Hetta]

I am not saying that sex is the only way to create so-called "soul ties." I am just saying that as I read the text of scripture, some kind of permanent bond occurs when a couple has sex; whether we are aware of it or not.

So, just to clarify, all those promiscuous people out there who are having sex with 100 different people in the course of a year are all "soul tied" to each other?

 

[Hetta]

That defies common sense. Imagine a 17-year-old dates a young man for a few weeks, rather innocent, burgers and ice cream at Dairy Queen, roller skating, and a movie. Now imagine that 17-year-old dates the same young man and does the same thing plus sex on every date.

If he decides to dump her for the homecoming queen, which scenario will devastate her more, the no-sex scenario or the with-sex scenario? I'd venture to guess that in nearly every case, the scenario with sex is going to be more painful and to be more likely to scar her emotionally for life. I'd venture to guess she'd be much more likely to have problems with feeling wanted, to have problems trusting men, or to have problems with sex if she'd slept with him.

Which scenario would you choose, if you had to, for your sister or daughter to go through?

Does this apply to a 17 year old man who was dumped for the school's football team hero? Or is it something you perceive that only girls suffer from?

 

[mkgal1]

the scenario with sex is going to be more painful and to be more likely to scar her emotionally for life.

For life? That's what I don't agree with. Where's God's healing power in that? I'm sure that some people may never get past something like that---but that's what I was mentioning earlier that it takes a "change of mind" or learning some truth from experiences like that in order to be "free" from the hurt.

For instance....this hypothetical gal can realize the two of them were just too young/too immature to be in a committed relationship at that time and move on from there (not blaming herself....and not blaming him, either).

One way she can remain "scarred for life" is if she holds onto the idea that she will be from that point on "damaged goods" or "gave away what was meant for her future husband"....or "linking herself forever to someone wrongly". All those statements are typically from the church community--and, IMO, are unnecessarily burdening on a person. Didn't Jesus say His yoke is easy? Does it make sense that a person would never have a way to be free of the condemnation from something they did in the past? Doesn't that run contrary to the Gospel?

 

[LinkH]

I'm not saying that every youthful relationship is going to fail. Clearly that's not true. What I am saying is that for every one you can point to that succeeds, there has to be at least a thousand that didn't.

...and that it's foolish to go through life believing you're going to be the one instead of part of the thousand.

I don't know the stats on it, but the odds do seem to be against marrying the high school sweet heart and staying together. I remember one kid I worked with in a group home who had a girlfriend he was in love with that he wanted to marry when he grew up. She dumped him, and that same day he was talking about finding the next one.

All this is all the more reason for kids not to have sex in high school, and all the more reason for them not to date in high school either.

 

[LinkH]

Does this apply to a 17 year old man who was dumped for the school's football team hero? Or is it something you perceive that only girls suffer from?

I honestly can't remember who has what children, but my example was designed to appeal to eZoolander's fatherly instincts. The stereotype may seem to fit a girl better, but yes, I believe this would break a lot of guys hearts as well.

'Soul ties' still sounds kind of cheesy to me, and I prefer the name be used for African American neckwear.

 

[LinkH]

For instance....this hypothetical gal can realize the two of them were just too young/too immature to be in a committed relationship at that time and move on from there (not blaming herself....and not blaming him, either).

How can she be truly whole spiritually if she doesn't 'blame herself.' If two unmarrieds have sex consensually,, then they both committed fornication. They should both confess their sin.

One way she can remain "scarred for life" is if she holds onto the idea that she will be from that point on "damaged goods" or "gave away what was meant for her future husband".

But she did give away something meant for her future husband.

If people don't realize they've sinned, how can they confess their sin? How can they repent?

Didn't Jesus say His yoke is easy? Does it make sense that a person would never have a way to be free of the condemnation from something they did in the past? Doesn't that run contrary to the Gospel?

Realizing you have sinned, admitting it, and realizing the gravity of the situation is not the same as living under constant condemnation. The prodigal son finally realized how bad off he was. He was wanting to eat pig slop. But he still returned and made peace with his father.

 

[ImaginaryDay]

'Soul ties' still sounds kind of cheesy to me, and I prefer the name be used for African American neckwear.

All we need now is some good "Easy Listening" to go along with that...

 

[Dave-W]

Am I understanding your comment correctly? Are you suggesting that (for an example) an *unmarried* couple that are having sex and then break up are going to experience more emotional and spiritual damage than a *married* couple that have been together for years and have children that break up? "Covenant commitments" in the beginning don't always mean no one "bolts".

No - I am saying that if you are in a covenant, (truly from the heart) you will NOT bolt and leave.

The breakup hurts either way.

 

[Dave-W]

So, just to clarify, all those promiscuous people out there who are having sex with 100 different people in the course of a year are all "soul tied" to each other?

Yes - that is my understanding of the issue.

 

[DZoolander]

I honestly can't remember who has what children, but my example was designed to appeal to eZoolander's fatherly instincts. The stereotype may seem to fit a girl better, but yes, I believe this would break a lot of guys hearts as well.

As a father of a young daughter, I've got to admit, the stuff about sex is incidental to me. What's more important to me is that I raise my daughter to understand things in such a way that she makes good decisions. Sex, being one of those decisions she will make. I'm not as much concerned with whether or not she has sex as I am with making sure that she doesn't make those decisions due to errors in perception/judgment/misunderstanding the world.

I want her to understand that her vagina, and sex, is not some form of currency with which she can buy favor and/or love. Sex, at best, can only intensify feelings that are already there. But, it cannot create them. Just as she looks around and knows how she feels about most people running around her - others feel the same way about her. Whether or not he likes her is irrespective of the sex issue. He either does, or he doesn't, and she ain't going to sway that with favors. Don't think "Well, if only I have sex with him, then he will commit". One has nothing to do with the other.

I also want her to understand that in her young years she's not building toward anything. That crush you have? You're not building toward a husband. That relationship will fail. It's inevitable - and it's no fault on your part or his. You're not building toward a lifelong anything. You have no concept of what that even means. You're building toward an at best, enjoyable memory that you will carry with you throughout life. But - he isn't going to be your husband. You haven't met your husband yet.

...and be okay with all of that. It's just what life is.

That's the kind of stuff as a dad of a young daughter that I want to impart. I hope that if I do a good enough job that she will make decisions on things like sex accordingly. What I don't want is an insecure girl who thinks that if only she puts out that he will now suddenly love her...or it will improve things. That's the kind of thing that I'm trying to avoid - and which I think leads to the kinds of bad decisions that both you and I would like to prevent.

 

[mkgal1]

How can she be truly whole spiritually if she doesn't 'blame herself.' If two unmarrieds have sex consensually,, then they both committed fornication. They should both confess their sin.

They don't need to "blame" them selves for the relationship not working out (forever condemning themselves for not being "committed enough" or "giving up too easily"...."being selfish" and all that). I wasn't addressing the "sin" issue of it (nor will I).

But she did give away something meant for her future husband.

I disagree. How is that rectified? What can she do after the fact (and does that apply to the guy as well?). I don't believe people are supposed to have that over their heads for the rest of their lives (that belief is what "scars for life"--not the past hurts, but the inability to change the past).

 

[Hetta]

I'm not saying that every youthful relationship is going to fail. Clearly that's not true. What I am saying is that for every one you can point to that succeeds, there has to be at least a thousand that didn't.

...and that it's foolish to go through life believing you're going to be the one instead of part of the thousand.

Perfectly true. Out of my two sons, one married his high school sweetheart last year, after 5 years of dating. My other son just broke up with his GF of 3 years, who a while ago he thought he would marry. His ex-GFs church has the kind of idea that LinkH has that young people should be getting married asap. Although it's a fairly well established branch of Protestantism, this church is cult like (imo). By the time they are 21, all these kids are marrying each other and popping out babies a few years later. I find it quite creepy, but they are brainwashed by parents/church their whole lives that this is what they will do. SMH. I loved the girl my son was dating, and hoped she would be my daughter-in-law, but I understand that this pressure was way too much for a 19 year old. It's a shame that the church didn't let them find their own pace to develop their relationship.

 

[mkgal1]

I loved the girl my son was dating, and hoped she would be my daughter-in-law, but I understand that this pressure was way too much for a 19 year old. It's a shame that the church didn't let them find their own pace to develop their relationship.

That is a shame that they were pressured by others.

I think EZoo's plan is a realistic way of bringing up children. Our daughter is at the age where most of her friends are getting married (and she was hoping to--but came to the reality of it all). It's easy to get caught up in all that---even if you know the time (or person) isn't right. It's an odd combination, the "marry young to avoid fornication" combined with "divorce is never an option". That really seems like setting up couples to fail.

 

[mkgal1]

There certainly is an on-going non-physical linkage between 2 people who have sex (physical linkage). Paul warns us of this:

1 Corinthians 6:16 Or do you not know that the one who joins himself to a prostitute is one body with her? For He says, “The two shall become one flesh.”

I wanted to go back to this. That passage takes on a whole different meaning (I believe) when we read it through our typical life's lens. This passage, though, was directed to people with a much different perception (and worship practices) than the majority of us (I feel pretty confident even saying, "all of us") have experienced.

For those that don't know: "prostitute" mentioned here isn't any variety of prostitute---it's temple prostitutes. This entire "warning" is about worship practices to false gods and the belief that the physical body is separate from (and in no way affects) the spirit. Because of that belief, there were all kinds of perverted practices. It's a good idea to keep that in mind when reading this. Paul's main point is to dismantle their false beliefs about body and soul/mind and idolatry.

 

[Hetta]

That is a shame that they were pressured by others.

I think EZoo's plan is a realistic way of bringing up children. Our daughter is at the age where most of her friends are getting married (and she was hoping to--but came to the reality of it all). It's easy to get caught up in all that---even if you know the time (or person) isn't right. It's an odd combination, the "marry young to avoid fornication" combined with "divorce is never an option". That really seems like setting up couples to fail.

I very, very much agree, MKGal.

 

[LinkH]

Perfectly true. Out of my two sons, one married his high school sweetheart last year, after 5 years of dating. My other son just broke up with his GF of 3 years, who a while ago he thought he would marry. His ex-GFs church has the kind of idea that LinkH has that young people should be getting married asap. Although it's a fairly well established branch of Protestantism, this church is cult like (imo). By the time they are 21, all these kids are marrying each other and popping out babies a few years later. I find it quite creepy, but they are brainwashed by parents/church their whole lives that this is what they will do. SMH. I loved the girl my son was dating, and hoped she would be my daughter-in-law, but I understand that this pressure was way too much for a 19 year old. It's a shame that the church didn't let them find their own pace to develop their relationship.

I don't think everyone has to marry young, but it is a good solution for some younger people who find a good match early on. Paul says 'to prevent fornication, let every man have his own wife and every woman have her own husband.' There are advantages to marrying young, but they aren't usually financial.