Socialism vs. Capitalism

Which do you think is the most moral economic system: Socialism or Capitalism?

  • Socialism

  • Capitalsim

  • Other


Results are only viewable after voting.

Assyrian

Basically pulling an Obama (Thanks Calminian!)
Mar 31, 2006
14,868
991
Wales
✟27,286.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Jews and Christians share the view that a man has inherent dignity and worth due to the fact that he was created in God's image. In socialism/Marxism and some of the philosophies lad led to it a mans worth is what he can provide the State. Essentially men are slaves of the state. We can debate at what point of taxation we become slaves, over 50% or 100% perhaps but the goal of socialism is 100%. That is when all property becomes property of the state.

A common idea these days is that socialism is somehow like Christianity because it is "concerned" about the poor. One of Marx's goals was to create a society without a need for charity (love) but instead stressed justice. Christians note; none of us can stand up to justice nor can we provide it. We require mercy and we are called to be merciful, loving.

When Jesus speaks of care for the poor, a class of people He said will always exist, he expects personal sacrifice on our part, not for our glory but for His. He never suggests that we become holy by using someone else's money to help the poor. Those who want that kind of system are simply stealing someone's money to promote themselves.
The bible never says that tax is stealing people's money, instead it tells us to pay our taxes, and it tells rulers to rescue the poor and the needy. We can give to the poor too, but democracy means we have a say in how the government is run which makes us responsible for choosing governments that follow God's standards in caring for the poor and oppressed.

You need to distinguish two different aspects of what the bible says about justice. We know we live by grace, by God's mercy not what we deserve, but there is another aspect to justice you see throughout the bible. The widow in Jesus' parable had been treated unjustly and was appealing to the judge, not that her opponent would be sentenced for his actions but that the injustice should be set right. The fact we have been saved by grace and are told to 'judge not lest we be judged', does not mean we shouldn't fight against injustice. We are called to be salt in this world.
 
Upvote 0

vjcoppola

Newbie
Sep 3, 2012
33
2
Western New York
✟7,664.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I am a anarchist and a pretty staunch communist. I'm influenced by the Situationists, the autonomists, left communists, and anarchist movement.

No Gods but Christ! No Kings but Christ!


That has to be one of the most rediculous pair of statements I have ever seen.

Which communist authority allows freedom of religion? Which agrees that a persons value is inate due to his being created in God's image. Which does not think that your greatest value is you use to the state?

Which situationist would agree that Christ is truth or that God's will is absolute?

Which of any of the isms that influence you would agree with the Christian way?
 
Upvote 0

Victor Eremita

Postmodern Christian Existentialist
Dec 6, 2012
4
1
✟7,629.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I do not believe in a state, I believe in God's Kingdom. A world where the only rule is "love your neighbors as you love yourself". My first real exposure to Christianity was Tolstoy's Kingdom of God is Within You which is basically the primer to Christian anarchism, the Tolstoyan movement, and Christian nonviolent resistance and that profoundly influences my understanding of Christianity rather than any real religious experiences. I read a lot of Christian literature afterwords like John Crossan, Peter Rollins, John Caputo, Jacques Ellul, and Adin Ballou. These sorts of writers and thinkers profoundly influence how I think about Christianity and why I aspire to be one. After all, practical Christianity means that I must make my convictions a reality. If I view the capitalism, the state, and other hierarchies as incompatible with Christianity then I must abolish them. In another word, I strive for the day when all rules, regulations, or whatever become "love your neighbor as you love yourself".
 
Upvote 0

Biscuithands

Newbie
Nov 18, 2011
70
1
✟15,198.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I do not believe in a state but God's kingdom? Hmmm. Should we be so "heavenly minded" that we are no "earthly good?" Or should we try to find a "balance" between the two in order to not become too delusional. Especially, since we live in a world where not everyone is a Christian. And on top of that, different kinds of Christians.

To me, the concept of "loving your neighbor as you love yourself" is but an extension of a more broad ideal that even precedes Christianity. I think the Messiah narrowed this universal truth down or made it more specific so people would get it!

The idea of "karma" has existed since ... well ... long before Christianity. Which by the way phrases it, "whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap." [Gal 6:7] And if you give it a little more thought, you can see that many other more specific ideals stem from this same point of origin.

For instance, if you are evil towards your neighbor, you will reap evil as a result; whether you are a Christian or not. Now, to avoid this tragic ending, simply love your neighbor as you love yourself. This way, you will not reap any negative consequences by not sending any negativity out in the first place. Remember, the Messiah was not talking to a bunch of "Christians" when he taught most of his lessons but rather, common people in society.

But what most people might not understand, you cannot "pick and choose" when you want to apply these ideals. In other words, a person does themselves just as much harm if they send out "hate" to their relatives, literal neighbors, complete strangers or to people you personally disapprove of (i.e. homosexuals, drunkards, other races, other religions).

People have a tendency to add their own addendum(s) in feeble attempts to make said texts benefit themselves and criticize or condemn others. In other words, you cannot read the text "love thy neighbor" and then only apply it to people you like (or know personally); when the text refers to all of society. This conclusion is even backed up in certain parables the Messiah taught (i.e. The Good Samaritan, The Sower).

Consider the Ten Commandments; Thou shalt not this and Thou shalt not that. Have you ever asked why not? For instance, was the commandment, "Thou shalt not kill" an ultimatum? Don't do it or else? If so, or else what? This is the part they left out. Thousands of years prior to Christianity, they just told people what not to do. Why? So they would not suffer (reap) the consequences.

In other words, during the time of Moses the approach was "just don't do it and you won't have a thing to worry about." And thousands of years later, the Messiah's approach was "love God first and then love everyone in society as you love yourself." This way, you still won't do anything (i.e. lie, cheat, deceive, steal, kill) that will have negative consequences to your own self, soul, spirit.

Just food for thought.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

sdburtis

The purpose of life is a life of purpose.-R. Byrne
Jul 7, 2011
11
1
42
Concord, NH
Visit site
✟7,636.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
I believe socialism to be most effective, if utilized correctly and according to non-perverted ideals. A government that cares for the people and about the people, especially with regard to social welfare, healthcare, poverty, labor, etc., is a good thing. Capitalism seems ok on the surface, but the problem with this particular ideal is the unequal distribution of wealth. Can you imagine how much better off we would all be if John Doe did not have billions at his disposal while his cousin Joe Doe is making minimum wage and barely getting by? There needs to be an elimination of the class system and a minimum mandatory income for all people (I estimate $1500 to $2000 per month in the U.S., and yes, I have considered how this would be done, though I do not want to elaborate on my ideas here just yet.) This would not only boost the economy, but it would give people hope and really improve the social issues we all are concerned about.
 
Upvote 0

Biscuithands

Newbie
Nov 18, 2011
70
1
✟15,198.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
In the grand scope of things, we are a society based on "Capitalism", with elements of Socialism to keep the private sector honest. An element Capitalists don't like. Hence, why they try to convince everyone, the Federal Government is socialist ... with a nasty undertone. The rich capitalists have proven time and time again, they do not have consumer's best interests in mind. This is why the Federal Government provides (or tries to provide) a "Public Option" in every aspect of society. When capitalists feel "they" are your only option, they take complete advantage and charge you an arm and a leg for everything: life insurance, healthcare, hospitalization, credit, credit cards, home mortgages, bank loans, etc. They did it in the past, and they'll do it again if we let them. Why should "we" put the private sector in charge of every aspect of our lives if they only want to "profit" from our misery and misfortune? And they try to make us think the aspects that protect us from their greed is "evil socialism".

So, we are a capitalist society with elements of socialism. Just like socialist societies have elements of capitalism. True, the Federal Government provides (or tries to provide) socialized programs that benefit the general population. Capitalists hate this in every respect. They think "everyone" should be dependent on the greedy capitalists who will rob them blind at every turn.
 
Upvote 0

jellio

Newbie
Jul 27, 2012
82
3
yorkshire
✟15,220.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Single
Politics
UK-Labour
In the grand scope of things, we are a society based on "Capitalism", with elements of Socialism to keep the private sector honest. An element Capitalists don't like. Hence, why they try to convince everyone, the Federal Government is socialist ... with a nasty undertone. The rich capitalists have proven time and time again, they do not have consumer's best interests in mind. This is why the Federal Government provides (or tries to provide) a "Public Option" in every aspect of society. When capitalists feel "they" are your only option, they take complete advantage and charge you an arm and a leg for everything: life insurance, healthcare, hospitalization, credit, credit cards, home mortgages, bank loans, etc. They did it in the past, and they'll do it again if we let them. Why should "we" put the private sector in charge of every aspect of our lives if they only want to "profit" from our misery and misfortune? And they try to make us think the aspects that protect us from their greed is "evil socialism".

So, we are a capitalist society with elements of socialism. Just like socialist societies have elements of capitalism. True, the Federal Government provides (or tries to provide) socialized programs that benefit the general population. Capitalists hate this in every respect. They think "everyone" should be dependent on the greedy capitalists who will rob them blind at every turn.



we have a minimum wage in the UK its below what is called the living wage. It works really well and hasnt affected employment levels.

I also think there should be a cap on maximum wage.
 
Upvote 0