So Called "Christian Values" Cause an Unsafe Enviroment For Gays and Lesbians...

[catlover]

The vast majority of victims of anti-lesbian/gay violence - possibly more than 80% - never report the incident, often due to fear of being "outed." --New York Gay and Lesbian Anti-Violence Project Annual Report, 1996.

75% of people committing hate crimes are under age 30 - one in three are under 18 - and some of the most pervasive anti-gay violence occurs in schools. --New York Gay and Lesbian Anti-Violence Report, 1996.

http://www.now.org/issues/lgbi/stats.html

 

[brightmorningstar]

The situation with Islam is much less tolerant than the Chistian view by the way. Gay lobbying seems particuallry anti-Christian.
However the Christian position is to love even ones enemies, violence isnt the Christian position. However the gay and lesbian psotion is unsafe for Christians and there are many more Christians in the world than gays and lesbians. I like any other true Christian am perfectly able to live peacefully with my gay and lesbian friends.. I think the content of the OP is the sort of thing that stirs up trouble, not Christian views.

 

[Forgiven_and_Redeemed]

The situation with Islam is much less tolerant than the Chistian view by the way. Gay lobbying seems particuallry anti-Christian.
However the Christian position is to love even ones enemies, violence isnt the Christian position. However the gay and lesbian psotion is unsafe for Christians and there are many more Christians in the world than gays and lesbians. I like any other true Christian am perfectly able to live peacefully with my gay and lesbian friends.. I think the content of the OP is the sort of thing that stirs up trouble, not Christian views.

^Well said. We can't criticize LGBTs, but they can criticize us? They call us 'fundies' and 'bigots' and mock Christ by calling him a pedophilic pervert (a homosexual)!

 

[catlover]

^Well said. We can't criticize LGBTs, but they can criticize us? They call us 'fundies' and 'bigots' and mock Christ by calling him a pedophilic pervert (a homosexual)!

Who has the power?

 

[HappyHealthyHolyRoller]

^Well said. We can't criticize LGBTs, but they can criticize us? They call us 'fundies' and 'bigots' and mock Christ by calling him a pedophilic pervert (a homosexual)!

Correct. Out of all the different kinds of sinners, it seems that the gay community is the fiercest in withholding repentance and most aggressive in their attacks on our humble faith. For this reason we must specially segregate the homosexual from the rest of the body of sinners (those who have the spirit to join us on our road: addicts, murderers, drunkards, backbiters, enemies of God, etc.). From there, we must appeal our case of humility and love a second time. If they fail to heed our message and instead resume their attacks on us, our church and all we hold dear such as love, kindness, self-control and a strong moral code, we must not withhold from our members the fist that will bring ultimate ruin on these.
This is how God would have it, selah.

 

[fated]

The vast majority of victims of anti-lesbian/gay violence - possibly more than 80% - never report the incident, often due to fear of being "outed." --New York Gay and Lesbian Anti-Violence Project Annual Report, 1996.

75% of people committing hate crimes are under age 30 - one in three are under 18 - and some of the most pervasive anti-gay violence occurs in schools. --New York Gay and Lesbian Anti-Violence Report, 1996.

http://www.now.org/issues/lgbi/stats.html

There is some bit in that comment, but you have to understand that there is also a lot of hostility from the homosexual community against Christians. And, also, reflect on the fact that the vast majority of Christian institutions teach against any sort of unjustified violence (including such hate crimes). Thus, I conclude that the hate crimes actually result from those failures of Christian values rather than from the Christian values. Beating up gay people is not a Christian value, after all, and I could just as easily be insulted by your comment.

 

[KCKID]

Correct. Out of all the different kinds of sinners, it seems that the gay community is the fiercest in withholding repentance and most aggressive in their attacks on our humble faith. For this reason we must specially segregate the homosexual from the rest of the body of sinners (those who have the spirit to join us on our road: addicts, murderers, drunkards, backbiters, enemies of God, etc.). From there, we must appeal our case of humility and love a second time. If they fail to heed our message and instead resume their attacks on us, our church and all we hold dear such as love, kindness, self-control and a strong moral code, we must not withhold from our members the fist that will bring ultimate ruin on these.
This is how God would have it, selah.

While this IS a subforum intended to specifically address homosexuality I need to shift direction temporarily merely to make a point.

Whatever you have to say above about homosexuality, HHHR, is peanuts at the side of those many thousands that are committing REAL biblical sins while the likes of yourself don't appear to bat an eye. I'm referring to divorcees and remarrieds. In my small local church alone (perhaps 75 members) I'm aware of seven examples of biblical adultery that are going on unnoticed or ignored by the majority. Several of these good people actually hold positions of trust in the church. Multiply that amount by 'however many' throughout the world and we have a situation where adultery within the church setting is of epidemic proportions!

Whatever it might be that upsets you about homosexuals should PALE by comparison to the many, many 'accepted' adulterers that are actually defying the very words of Jesus. Jesus said not a word about homosexualty but He sure had a great deal to say about adultery. It's serious enough to be also included in the Ten Commandments of 'thou shalt nots'. Why do these adulterers not head your list of 'unrepentent sinners'? Please let me know, HHHR, as soon as you're able.

Note: I personally don't have a problem with divorcees and remarrieds just as I don't have a problem with homosexuals. I present the above only to illustrate the blatant hypocrisy of many Christians.

 

[FaithLikeARock]

I attend American River College. If you live in California, you may have heard about whats going on. I have several friends who are constantly harassed by the so-called "Christian" club on campus - being followed to their cars, followed with cameras, insulted, antagonized, etc. I have a friend who's had their car vandalized by them. I have two friends in particular who were physically harmed by them. One friend has to get surgery on his ribs and him and the rest of us are all scared to death over him because they still harass him on campus. They attacked one of his friends who had been trying to protect him too. There's been several other against people I don't know as personally.

What drives Christians to do this? And why do other Christians just dismiss it? Why not address it? When you just ignore it, it encourages this sort of hatred.

No one says GLBTQ's are right in calling names. The club at this same school constantly stressed the need to remain calm, polite and sincere, while still standing your ground. They're always trying to follow the rules and always trying to come off as polite. But the "Christian" club antagonizes them, purposely trying to force a retaliation out of them so they can use it against them. They draw them away from conversations and try to light the fire. And while the GLBTQ community is full of people trying to keep the peace, what does the Christian community do? "Oh that's bad, but hey, they are sinners". I try so hard to stress peace out of the Christian community, and I get called a hypocrite for it. I've seen both sides. And I think the homosexuals at my school are more Christian than the Christians are.

 

[brightmorningstar]

There are always going to be people who 'let the side down' whichever side. The fact is God's purposes according to His Biblical testimony are man and woman or celibacy, and same sex unions are contrary, now whether the society accepts that or not is up the society, whether they honour or dishonour God.

 

[Forgiven_and_Redeemed]

I attend American River College. If you live in California, you may have heard about whats going on. I have several friends who are constantly harassed by the so-called "Christian" club on campus - being followed to their cars, followed with cameras, insulted, antagonized, etc. I have a friend who's had their car vandalized by them. I have two friends in particular who were physically harmed by them. One friend has to get surgery on his ribs and him and the rest of us are all scared to death over him because they still harass him on campus. They attacked one of his friends who had been trying to protect him too. There's been several other against people I don't know as personally.

What drives Christians to do this? And why do other Christians just dismiss it? Why not address it? When you just ignore it, it encourages this sort of hatred.

No one says GLBTQ's are right in calling names. The club at this same school constantly stressed the need to remain calm, polite and sincere, while still standing your ground. They're always trying to follow the rules and always trying to come off as polite. But the "Christian" club antagonizes them, purposely trying to force a retaliation out of them so they can use it against them. They draw them away from conversations and try to light the fire. And while the GLBTQ community is full of people trying to keep the peace, what does the Christian community do? "Oh that's bad, but hey, they are sinners". I try so hard to stress peace out of the Christian community, and I get called a hypocrite for it. I've seen both sides. And I think the homosexuals at my school are more Christian than the Christians are.

I understand, but then again if your friend wasn't a homosexual, that would never have happened. I appreciate how homosexuals may get a little bit bothered by a miniscule minority of 'Christians' (whose hearts are probably in the right place!) but that doesn't mean the rest of us should back off and let gays get married/ have civil unions/ domestic partnerships.

 

[KCKID]

I understand, but then again if your friend wasn't a homosexual, that would never have happened.

Words fail me. The amount of indifference and ignorance contained within those few words above would be about enough to sink a battle ship.

I appreciate how homosexuals may get a little bit bothered by a miniscule minority of 'Christians' (whose hearts are probably in the right place!)

". . .whose hearts are probably in the right place ..." Again, words fail me. If I said what I would dearly LOVE to say my post would be deleted and I'd probably be censured. It's almost worth it. All I can think to say, however, is that your brand of Christianity, F&R, is the kind that Ghandi made reference to. Please keep it away from me . . .

but that doesn't mean the rest of us

Who are 'us'? The righteous ones? I've got news for you, my friend, and it ain't good.

should back off and let gays get married/ have civil unions/ domestic partnerships.

I'm just tossing up if I should risk post deletion and censure anyway. Your post is either 'tongue-in-cheek' or it's yet another glaring example of a professed Christian defiling the very nature of Jesus. If you ARE serious then I'm ashamed that I have to share the name 'Christian' with you.

 

[brightmorningstar]

To KCKID,
You express a lot of opinion, which is fine in itself, but so is the opinion you respond to.

The amount of indifference and ignorance contained within those few words above would be about enough to sink a battle ship.

But in what way is it ignorant? I would argue the opposite based on the evidence provided thus far.

". . .whose hearts are probably in the right place ..." Again, words fail me. If I said what I would dearly LOVE to say my post would be deleted and I'd probably be censured. It's almost worth it. All I can think to say, however, is that your brand of Christianity, F&R, is the kind that Ghandi made reference to. Please keep it away from me . . .

Again, same sex unions are error according to Jesus Christ, not Ghandi, Ghandi was a man, Jesus Christ was man and is the risen Son of God. Christians follow Jesus Christ and His teaching, not Ghandi.

Your post is either 'tongue-in-cheek' or it's yet another glaring example of a professed Christian defiling the very nature of Jesus. If you ARE serious then I'm ashamed that I have to share the name 'Christian' with you.

I hope the moderators don’t intervene and thank you for your honesty. However, I believe, if true, the opposite would be the case. Same sex unions are error as we see in the Bible (Romans 1) and sexual immorality defiles the person who does it (1 Cor 6) I think therefore that your opinion defiles the very nature of Jesus Christ as He has become our righteousness and forgiven us the sin one example of which you are promoting.

 

[OllieFranz]

I understand, but then again if your friend wasn't a homosexual, that would never have happened.

You mean like the Italian-American truck-driver who was assualted by an anti-Semitic mob because he "looked Jewish"? Or the shy and nonathletic kids who get harassed as "wash-my mouths" for no other reason than that they are not part of the mob?

And while the bullies may be a minority, they are not a "minuscule" minority.

Plus those opposing any measures to restrain their activities, such as GSAs or zero tolerance policies for violence and harassment are just as responsible even if the themselves don't do the bullying and harassing. And that includes a majority of the fundamentalist "Christians" (at least if we are talking about the same kind of fundamentalist "Christians" who take an anti-gay position on these boards, of which your "their heart is in the right place" remark is a prime example)

 

[catlover]

I understand, but then again if your friend wasn't a homosexual, that would never have happened. I appreciate how homosexuals may get a little bit bothered by a miniscule minority of 'Christians' (whose hearts are probably in the right place!) but that doesn't mean the rest of us should back off and let gays get married/ have civil unions/ domestic partnerships.

If those people lynched by the KKK were not black they would have never been beaten and hanged...

 

[catlover]

Words fail me. The amount of indifference and ignorance contained within those few words above would be about enough to sink a battle ship.



". . .whose hearts are probably in the right place ..." Again, words fail me. If I said what I would dearly LOVE to say my post would be deleted and I'd probably be censured. It's almost worth it. All I can think to say, however, is that your brand of Christianity, F&R, is the kind that Ghandi made reference to. Please keep it away from me . . .



Who are 'us'? The righteous ones? I've got news for you, my friend, and it ain't good.



I'm just tossing up if I should risk post deletion and censure anyway. Your post is either 'tongue-in-cheek' or it's yet another glaring example of a professed Christian defiling the very nature of Jesus. If you ARE serious then I'm ashamed that I have to share the name 'Christian' with you.

You know if the shoe was on the other foot, a neocon getting beaten up for being just that, many would be squeeling like a stuck pig...
This subject would not be treated in such a nonchalant fashion by that poster...

 

[Forgiven_and_Redeemed]

If those people lynched by the KKK were not black they would have never been beaten and hanged...

Being gay is a choice, being black is not.

 

[OllieFranz]

Being violent is a choice; being attacked is not.

And you still haven't addressed what the military euphemistically calls collateral damage, in this case the Italian-American truck-driver or the non-athletic kid who is attacked because his attackers think he may be Jewish, or he may be gay. Violence against them is OK because it was meant for someone who in your opinion does not deserve the dignity of being human?

 

[DrummerWench]

Being gay is a choice, being black is not.

No.
Being gay is NOT a choice. Please refrain from spreading this error.
Thank you.

 

[Forgiven_and_Redeemed]

Being violent is a choice; being attacked is not.

And you still haven't addressed what the military euphemistically calls collateral damage, in this case the Italian-American truck-driver or the non-athletic kid who is attacked because his attackers think he may be Jewish, or he may be gay. Violence against them is OK because it was meant for someone who in your opinion does not deserve the dignity of being human?

Certainly not! But I assumed the person being harrassed was out. It honestly sounds to me like it was 6-to-one and half-a-dozen-to-the-other. The people attacking the homosexual were simply acting out of their own conscience, their conviction and what the Bible says. True, I would not have done the same if I were in their position, but if the victim wasn't gay, or at least not open and out about it, then the attack was not warrented and I would condemn it.

 

[Forgiven_and_Redeemed]

No.
Being gay is NOT a choice. Please refrain from spreading this error.
Thank you.

Well, if he wasn't "out of the closet" as it were, he would not have been attacked, and if he WAS attacked, it would be morally wrong since the conviction is false.