Smiling babies in the womb have pro-abortion activists screeching

[water_ripple]

Either you condemn abortion or by omission/indecision, you condone it. You're certainly entitled to do the latter if you must (and I will stand beside you to uphold your free-speech right to state your feelings, either way), but let's spare one another the rhetoric.

I do not believe in abortion, but I choose not to judge those who have abortions. It is up to God to condemm, not me. Y should I be they all knowing athourity? I am not; God is. I understand how God views the value of human life, and I adhere. Persecution is never an effective way to convince others of one's beliefs. Attempting to make others submit always ends in disaster. Making a difference begins with one person. I have choosen to start with myself. I now have a family a hubby and 2 girls. The value of human life can only reflect on them if my behavior reflects how much I value life. The value of human life will not be reflected if I condemm the lives of others who I think are making wrong choices. What I can do is live my life according to God. Judgement is up to Him.

 

[Brother Christman]

I understand how God views the value of human life, and I adhere.

Then you have no business being a part of anything that considers murder a choice. It's antithetical to what you've just said.

Please understand that I don't say this hatefully: I'm eager to prevent stumbling, especially that of my beloved family in Christ.

Jesus said "judge not...", but He also said "I come not to destroy the Law or the prophets but to fulfill." If He didn't give us a memo on an update (i.e. "an eye for an eye" changing to "turn the other cheek"), a given Law still stands. God is almighty and unchanging. He will remain so when our bones are dust.

 

[water_ripple]

Then you have no business being a part of anything that considers murder a choice. It's antithetical to what you've just said. I don't say this hatefully - I'm eager to prevent stumbling, especially that of my beloved family in Christ.

Jesus said "judge not...", but He also said "I come not to destroy the Law or the prophets but to fulfill." If He didn't give us a memo on an update (i.e. "an eye for an eye" changing to "turn the other cheek"), a given Law still stands. God is almighty and unchanging. He will remain so when our bones are dust.

I do not consider anything that has to do with murder of a human a choice for myself. I try to present the reasons why I do not believe in anything that has to do with murder in an non-judgemental and non-offending way. Blaming and commdemnation seem to make only anger. If you can point out to me anywhere in the bible that Christians are required to pass judgement on others reveal it to me. I would welcome the lesson.

 

[burrow_owl]

water ripple: you understand my point, though, right? The proposal to institute this technology solely as a means to reduce the number of times a legal procedure is done seems unjust. All this money could be spent on all kinds of things that would help those who are already born. Clearly the money we allot to health care for the poor isn't very much, and results in substandard care; wouldn't this money, which is being used only to further certain political goals (undermining a controversial procedure), be better allocated to actual health care?

 

[water_ripple]

water ripple: you understand my point, though, right? The proposal to institute this technology solely as a means to reduce the number of times a legal procedure is done seems unjust. All this money could be spent on all kinds of things that would help those who are already born. Clearly the money we allot to health care for the poor isn't very much, and results in substandard care; wouldn't this money, which is being used only to further certain political goals (undermining a controversial procedure), be better allocated to actual health care?

I think women should be fully aware of their options and the procedures which are entailed. I do not think it is right to force beliefs on another, but if one is to make a fully informed choice the consequences of both sides should be presented. I thought your idea of posters was great advice...Posters depicting a fetus in the womb, and posters depicting abortions early and late. When one is presented with both sides of an issue one is able to make a fully informed choice. If the political system would present both sides of the issue then people would be fully aware to make informed choices, and the issue would really be about options. The picture would not be figuratively clear, but visually clear.

 

[Force]

Okey-dokey. As with the last issue, I'll defer to the doctors and nurses for my opinion, and I'll let you just hang on to what you want to beleive based on...well, I have no idea.

How about the 2 doctors I talked to and the fact that I and my best friend work at a sonography school.

But whatever.

 

[Voegelin]

I do not believe in abortion, but I choose not to judge those who have abortions.

What turned me from having a libertarian "if they want to do it, that is their problem" attitude toward abortion was the internet.

I had no idea how radical the pro-abortion forces are. They howl when the most reasonable restrictions on abortion are introduced (telling parents if a child seeks an abortion for instance, or having a short waiting period, or banning partial birth abortion). They want abortion on demand and they would like taxpayers to pay for it.

The mean comments about sonargrams are typical of the mindset. They don't want "choice", they want abortion. Why, I can't fathom. Money, racism or a twisted mind is all I can figure.

Also noticed that these people want "choice" in abortion but in little else--a woman can "choose" to abort her baby but the extreme left wing pro-abortionists howl if a mother wants to "choose" where her children goes to school.

The same people are also pushing euthanasia and that is a concern. Doctors, patients and families have gently, if needed, allowed or helped people to end suffering forever. It happens everyday in America. But the abortion crowd wants it codified into law. That is extremely dangerous.

So...from being someone out of the debate, over the last 7 years I've, reluctantly entered it. The pro-abortionists must be resisted. They affect more than just those who have abortions. They affect all of society and they are evil.

Note of apology to anyone who may have replied to me: This forum freezes my old browser often. Some threads I cannot load at all. I'm not ignoring anyone, I simply cannot see what you wrote (if you did). Anyone have a suggestion on how to fix this...PM me. I probably won't be able to reply again on this thread...took me half an hour to get in this time. Other threads are fine and at some times of the day, I have no problem.

 

[Brother Christman]

I do not consider anything that has to do with murder a choice for myself. I try to present the reasons why I do not believe in anything that has to do with murder in an non-judgemental and non-offending way. Blaming and commdemnation seem to make only anger. If you can point out to me anywhere in the bible that Christians are required to pass judgement on others reveal it to me. I would welcome the lesson.

We're not be "lukewarm", are we? What about being stumbling blocks? What good is "salt" that's lost it's flavor?

I'll ask the same of you: Perhaps you can show me somewhere other than "judge not..." (which in context, must be viewed in tandem with "I come not to destroy the law or the prophets...") that says we're supposed to remain neutral on every issue unless it's in our face? Should we stand idly by as children are burned with cigarette lighters, too because we fear being judgemental?

 

[bop1997]

They have the choice of abstinence, responsible sexuality, or adoption,

ITA BEAN!

 

[water_ripple]

We're not be "lukewarm", are we? What about being stumbling blocks? What good is "salt" that's lost it's flavor?

I'll ask the same of you: Perhaps you can show me somewhere other than "judge not..." (which in context, must be viewed in tandem with "I come not to destroy the law or the prophets...") that says we're supposed to remain neutral on every issue unless it's in our face? Should we stand idly by as children are burned with cigarette lighters, too because we fear being judgemental?

On the subject of abortion I do not believe in it. I try not to judge others. I have found that it is better to appeal to humanity than it is to point fingers about who is right and who is wrong. I realise that the value of life is greatly decreasing these days, and it is truly disturbing. The fact is God gave every human the right of freewill. People are responsible for their own actions, and will be judged accordingly. Because I have a different approach I am lukewarm? Some of the people around here reject Christ because they are persecuted by Christians. I apologize that I cannot participate in persecution. My position on abortion is made clear in my posts, and I have been persecuted to appealing to the humanity of others. Persecuted in fact to the point where some have labeled it as a non existant argument, but guess what people cannot ignore the appeal of humanity. It is the thing that binds all people together no matter what they believe. I think if a woman is going to have an abortion she should be fully aware of the procedures, and what happens to the child. Some people are offended by the truth no matter what it looks like.

Burrow_owl who is pro-choice gave a suggestion of putting up posters of one's options. He of course meant to simply put a sonogram on the wall. Not an offensive way of display. I took it a step further and said Yes I think this is a wonderful idea. Place the pictures up of all the options and the procedures of abortion. The truth is the truth is it not even if it is graphic? A fetus in the womb and the exact procedures of what happens when a fetus is aborted. I think the pictures would speak for themselves. This is what happens if you have the child and this is what happens if you abort the child. I think if a person can still have an abortion when fully aware of the facts on a clear conscience then God will judge them accordingly. Not me it is not my place. Besides how is going to help anyone who wants to change their life around to be persecuted and shamed by Christians? Ya know if a person is shamed and deemed unworthy b/c they have made bad decisions in their life a little bit of love goes a long way. If one reaches with love one recieves love. If one reaches with commdemnation one recieves condemmnation. If you do not believe me read the entire discussion. Has my salt lost it's flavor b/c I reach with love and not commdemnation?

 

[teclis]

I am glad for the pictures, if it will prevent another abortion and promote sexual responsibility, then I think that is a wonderful thing. These pro choicers can scowl all they want, women do have a choice, and abortion is not the only one. They have the choice of abstinence, responsible sexuality, or adoption, and yet I see none of them out there advocating any of the aforementioned alternatives.

The reason of course is that no one claims that such actions are immoral. really now, no one has rallies for eating breakfast, or driving the speed limit. your comparison is groundless.

"Count your blessings."

 

[Firscherscherling]

I had no idea how radical the pro-abortion forces are.

Radical. Hmmm. Like assaulting women in front of clinics or blowing someone's head off with a shotgun, setting off a bomb at the Olympics? Oh wait...

Hey, if we want to judge an entire issue by the actions of few, you are gonna be a big-time loser.

The mean comments about sonargrams are typical of the mindset. They don't want "choice", they want abortion. Why, I can't fathom. Money, racism or a twisted mind is all I can figure.

Translation: They disagree with me so they are evil, greedy racists who are trying to get everyone they can to have an abortion.

Such attacks are a sure sign that you stand on a weak footing, for you can't argue the actual issue.

Also noticed that these people want "choice" in abortion but in little else--a woman can "choose" to abort her baby but the extreme left wing pro-abortionists howl if a mother wants to "choose" where her children goes to school.

Huh? Lets just trow some other random stuff in there for good measure.

The same people are also pushing euthanasia and that is a concern. Doctors, patients and families have gently, if needed, allowed or helped people to end suffering forever. It happens everyday in America. But the abortion crowd wants it codified into law. That is extremely dangerous./QUOTE]

Translation: I think it is wonderful to euthanise people as long as it is illegal. Make it leagal and we have a major problem.

Truly amazing reasoning.

The pro-abortionists must be resisted. They affect more than just those who have abortions. They affect all of society and they are evil.

Eeerie Twighlight Zone music playing in background.....

Note of apology to anyone who may have replied to me: This forum freezes my old browser often. Some threads I cannot load at all. I'm not ignoring anyone, I simply cannot see what you wrote (if you did). Anyone have a suggestion on how to fix this...PM me. I probably won't be able to reply again on this thread...took me half an hour to get in this time. Other threads are fine and at some times of the day, I have no problem.

God works in mysterious ways...

 

[sophiemay]

I am pro-abortion, who would want to bring up a child which was a result of rape? a constant reminder of the trauma recieved

 

[Force]

I am pro-abortion, who would want to bring up a child which was a result of rape? a constant reminder of the trauma recieved

Hey I resent that, my mom was a product of rape and my grandma loves her just the same. Thats her child.....you can always put it up for adoption...which by the way my uncle was adopted...and he is blood to all of us. Thats just ridiculous.

 

[sophiemay]

you can't jus put it up for abortion just like that, once the child is born surely there is a bond?
living in the world knowing your child is living without you? its a no win situation sometimes pregant women can't bear to keep it and they can't bear to think off it out in the world living without them
Some mothers are worried about the rapist characteristics and the effects it will have on the child, knowing that their father is evil?

 

[Force]

you can't jus put it up for abortion just like that, once the child is born surely there is a bond?
living in the world knowing your child is living without you? its a no win situation sometimes pregant women can't bear to keep it and they can't bear to think off it out in the world living without them
Some mothers are worried about the rapist characteristics and the effects it will have on the child, knowing that their father is evil?

You mean put it up for adoption...sure you can, lots of babies are put up for adoption all the time and there are lots of loving families who want them...my grandma wanted my uncle! Got him when he was 6 days old.

I mean you talk about how guilty they would feel to give it up, yet they would rather kill the baby.

But anyways you stated "who would want a product of rape" and I resent that, my grandma knew it wasnt my moms fault, and my mom was still a part of her not just the father.......And oh yes worry about the inherrent evil, my mom has so many rapist characteristics. And no it has had no long term effects on my mom either.

Man I am so glad that my grandma didnt feel the same way as you otherwise my mom, me or my sister wouldnt be here.

 

[Jamin Chef]

Similarly, pro-abortion advocates have attacked legislation in Congress, introduced by Florida Republican Rep. Cliff Stearns, which would guarantee free ultrasound screenings to any woman who visits a non-profit crisis pregnancy center that receives subsidies for sonogram equipment. Kathryn Allen, Planned Parenthood spokeswoman, griped, “With all the problems going on in our world, I can’t imagine that Congress would spend its time and energy on ultrasound for anyone.”

Liberals in America are all for the government giving away any health services for free — except if it’s a service that has the ability to persuade a wavering patient to preserve a life instead of end it.

These amazing advances in golden-hued ultrasound have illuminated an insurmountable truth: No amount of NARAL money or National Organization for Women screeching can overcome the persuasive power of an unborn child’s beaming face.

If something like this should change someones mind, lets do it. You always need both sides of the story.

 

[TScott]

This is a BS characterization.

Didn't you know? That characterizes everything Voegelin posts. He is the energy creature of CF.

 

[JEREMY O'ROURKE]

An unborn baby should be allowed to live and put up for adoption instead of having a very self centered person take its life. Even if the baby is from rape or incest it still is a baby. You are punnishing the baby for something that someone else did. It sure is not the childs fault the way he/she was concieved. Abortion is a very sick and evil act that should be outlawed and those caught doing it should either get the death penalty or life in prison. I know that some in these forums believe that it is wrong but dont want to see it overturned. That is the problem of why it is legal today. We have people who are too weak in their faith to take a hard stand against this tragedy. People say it is wrong but we dont need to see Row vs Wade overturned. Our nation would be such an example to the rest of the countries if it was overturned. Abortion is an abomination to our land and people. People always talk about the womens right to her body but when she has a life inside of her and kills him/her what does this show about that women. Abortion hurts as many women as it does babies. Abortion always made out to be a positive thing to so many by liberals and selfcentered people. Abortion makes the women having them look like cold hearted, blood thirsty, people who dont care about babies and just has a pure hatred for babies. This is not a good image for a women to have. No matter how many people dont care about the issue the fact remains that it will always be pure evil. God can forgive the person who has had abortions. He does not hate any one but it makes him sad to see th innocent blood shed for no reason other than selfishness. You may ask why can I support the death penalty and support life of unborn babies? The reason is because the baby is innocent and the murderer is not. God have mercy on those who can justify unborn baby homicide and who dont even think twice about the life that is inside of them. To those of you who are prolife as well lets not call the unborn baby a fetus any more. That is just too politically correct. Also those who are a little more educated about this subject know that it is a baby not a blob of tissue or a fetus but a little baby. Some of us care about babies and we do not have extreme hatered for them in our hearts. It is so sad how even Christians can sit by so silently and do nothing while we have a holocaust on our hands thanks to some leaders of our country who have an agenda that pleases Satan and brings great joy to him. We also have christians with attitudes that say well we just have to get used to it nothing can change it being legal. We have enough Churches in America that could have their people getting more involved and start voting. We also need some christians to get informed on the issues and stop voting for our enemies and the enemies of the babies. In our last election we had about 40% of Evangelicals voting for a man who was supportive to every kind of abortion procedure that there was. This is too many christians that proclaim to be Christ like is what being a christian means and go out and stand for one who clearly is morally bankrupt yes he called himself a Christian too but what he believed totally opposed the Bible.

 

[ashibaka]

You may ask why can I support the death penalty and support life of unborn babies? The reason is because the baby is innocent and the murderer is not.

If you say so.