Six Things Never Mentioned In Rev. 20:1-6

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Bible2,

These six verses still do not state any of the six facts do they?

Furthermore, unbelievers will not be in the Kingdom of God either.


Matthew 13:41: The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity.

Matthew 24:51: [The Lord of the evil servant] shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 25:12: [To the foolish virgins] He answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

Matthew 25:30: And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Luke 17:29: But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

Luke 17:27b: [Noah] entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

Luke 17:32–33: Remember Lot's wife. Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

1 Thessalonians 5:3: For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape [strong dual negative in the Greek].

2 Thessalonians 1:7b–8; 2:12: When the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ ... That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


And you always cite Isaiah 65:20 BUT YOU NEVER CITE ISAIAH 65:17!!!!!
 
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1. The second coming of Christ

2. The bodily resurrection (yes, First Resurrection but not a bodily resurrection)

3. A reign on earth

4. A literal throne of David

5. Jerusalem in the land of Palestine

6. Christ on earth

Guess what? All of these things are also not mentioned in Genesis 1:1-6. And that observation makes just as much sense as the OP.
 
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Guess what? All of these things are also not mentioned in Genesis 1:1-6. And that observation makes just as much sense as the OP.


What did JESUS mean in John 6:39-40,44,54?

Have you watched the video in my SIG? "Rapture in a Nutshell"?

Maybe you are partially right, maybe dispensationalism and the Rapture is the great end times apostacy? Maybe that's the great delusion?
 
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Biblewriter

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What did JESUS mean in John 6:39-40,44,54?

Have you watched the video in my SIG? "Rapture in a Nutshell"?

Maybe you are partially right, maybe dispensationalism and the Rapture is the great end times apostacy? Maybe that's the great delusion?

If you had bothered to look these passages up in the Greek, you would know that the word translated "day" in each of these verses actually means "time," or "age."
 
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yeshuasavedme

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1. The second coming of Christ

2. The bodily resurrection (yes, First Resurrection but not a bodily resurrection)

3. A reign on earth

4. A literal throne of David

5. Jerusalem in the land of Palestine

6. Christ on earth
Why are isolating Revelation from the rest of Scripture?
and FYI, The Book of Enoch and Revelation go together, hand in hand.
Enoch tells the Son of Man will be revealed.
Revelation shows the Revealing.
Enoch details the last battle, even naming the kings of the east stirred up as the Medes and the Persians.

Enoch shows the rapture before the evil comes upon the inhabitants of the earth.
Revelation has the rapture in chapter 4, and then tells the unleashing of the evil on the inhabitants of the earth afterwards.

Enoch tells us that he was transformed in body and went to be with a rule with the holy Watcher angels in heaven.

Revelation shows us Enoch, a transformed and glorified human being, coming out of the temple in heaven with one of the bowls of wrath, who shows John the things to come and tells John he is a fellow prophet, and a brethren -a human being like John.

Enoch tells us about the Lake of Fire and the Book of Life.
Revelation shows us the ones cast there, like Enoch had said they would be, and shows us the danger of being blotted out of the Book of Life.
Enoch tells about some who will be blotted out of the Book of Life.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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What did JESUS mean in John 6:39-40,44,54?

Have you watched the video in my SIG? "Rapture in a Nutshell"?

Maybe you are partially right, maybe dispensationalism and the Rapture is the great end times apostacy? Maybe that's the great delusion?

Enoch tells the great delusion sent by God will be when the stars change their courses and do not appear in their order, in the tribulation, and sinners take them to be for gods, and make images and worship them.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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Yeah the wages of sin is death. Adam sinned.

And who is railing against the Truth?

Because you can't produce anything in the whole bible about a millennial 1,000 years, you accuse me of railing against the truth.

Not one verse beside those six verses in the whole bible.

And don't bother looking for a verse either, I found these number statistics on a preterist site and I don't think they are being dishonest.
The thousand years Satan and his minions are chained in Sheol is the Millennial reign of peace.
One thousand years of Peace for earth, with the Satans chained up.

Adam died physically before completing his one millennial day before being transformed to the immortal body for the Glory. That is in the Jewish writings. Yes, he died in spirit as a son of God immediately, but physically, he did not live his one millennial day.

Enoch got transformed age 365, and is in heaven reigning with the angels and is the angel -messenger- who comes out of the temple with one of the seven bowls of wrath, and then shows John the things to come, and tells John not to worship him for he is a fellow prophet and a brother-a human being, with John.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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The fact remains there aren't any verses that mention a millennial period besides the 6 verses out of 31,173 verses.
And not one verse mentions the word trinity, but the millennial reign is typed, shadowed, told of, and told of again, and again, and over and over, but you are willfully blind.
 
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random person said in post 21:

Furthermore, unbelievers will not be in the Kingdom of God either.

Matthew 13:41: The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity.

Regarding the tares, in Matthew 13:38 the good seed are the elect and the weeds/tares are the nonelect, the human children of Satan, who can't ever believe in Jesus (John 8:42-47). Matthew 13:40-42 refers to the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11-14), after the future millennium and subsequent events (Revelation 20:7-10), when the unsaved will be cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:15). In Matthew 13:43 the kingdom of the Father is after the great white throne judgment when a new earth (i.e. a new surface of the earth) will be created and God the Father will descend from heaven in the literal city of New Jerusalem to live with the church on the new earth (Revelation 21:1-3).

random person said in post 21:

Matthew 24:51: [The Lord of the evil servant] shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

. . .

Matthew 25:30: And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Those don't refer to unbelievers, for they aren't God's servants.

random person said in post 21:

Matthew 25:12: [To the foolish virgins] He answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

That doesn't refer to unbelievers, for they aren't figuratively virgins.

random person said in post 21:

Luke 17:29: But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

Luke 17:27b: [Noah] entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

Luke 17:32–33: Remember Lot's wife. Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

Luke 17:27,29,32,33, like Matthew 24:39, doesn't mean all unsaved people will be killed at Jesus' 2nd coming. For Luke 17:34-36 and Matthew 24:40-41 go on to show that some unsaved people will be left alive at that time (Zechariah 14:16-19). So in Luke 17:26-30 and Matthew 24:37-39 the point of the comparison isn't that all unsaved people will be killed at the 2nd coming, but that none of them will be expecting to be killed, but will be eating and drinking without worry right up to the day of the 2nd coming.

Those "left" where they are at the 2nd coming (Luke 17:34-36, Matthew 24:40-41) will include unsaved people who will be forced to come up annually to worship the returned Jesus in Jerusalem during the millennium (Zechariah 14:16-19). These unsaved people will have to be ruled with a rod of iron by Jesus and the bodily resurrected church during the millennium (Revelation 2:26-29, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 20:4-6, Psalms 2, Psalms 66:3, Psalms 72:8-11). And their descendants will be deceived by Satan after the millennium is over into committing the Gog/Magog rebellion (Revelation 20:7-10, Ezekiel chapters 38-39).

The 2nd coming will be like "the days of Noah" (Matthew 24:37) and "the days of Lot" (Luke 17:28,30) in that just as Noah went into the ark before the temporal (i.e. not the eternal) judgment of the Flood, and Lot went out from Sodom before its temporal (not its eternal) judgment (cf. Ezekiel 16:53-56), so the church will be raptured into the sky at the 2nd coming (Matthew 24:30-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17, Revelation 19:7) before Jesus begins the 2nd-coming, temporal (not the eternal) judgment of the unsaved world alive at that time (Revelation 19:11 to 20:3, Luke 17:26-30, Matthew 24:37-39).

Regarding the final judgment of the unsaved, note that when Jesus returns, only the church will be bodily resurrected and finally-judged (1 Corinthians 15:21-23, Revelation 20:5; Psalms 50:3-5, cf. Mark 13:27; Matthew 25:19-30; 2 Corinthians 5:10, Luke 12:45-48). The obedient part of the bodily resurrected church, including those in the church who had been beheaded by the Antichrist, will then reign on the earth with the returned Jesus for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11, Zechariah 14:3-21). Only sometime after the 1,000 years and the subsequent Gog/Magog rebellion are over (Revelation 20:7-10, Ezekiel chapters 38-39) will the rest of the dead (of all times) be bodily resurrected (Revelation 20:5) and finally-judged at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11-15).

random person said in post 21:

1 Thessalonians 5:3: For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape [strong dual negative in the Greek].

1 Thessalonians 5:3 doesn't require the eternal judgment of the unsaved (Revelation 20:11-15) will occur immediately at Jesus' 2nd coming.

1 Thessalonians 5:3 could include reference to when, near the end of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, at the two witnesses' death at the legal end of the Antichrist's 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 11:8,15, Revelation 13:5-18), the unsaved world will rejoice and make merry because it will then be free from the tormenting plagues from the two witnesses (Revelation 11:10,6). But little will the unsaved world realize that the plagues of the 7 vials of God's (temporal) judgment and wrath will then be poured out upon it (Revelation 16). And then Jesus will return and bring the 2nd-coming (yet still temporal) judgment and wrath of God (Revelation 19:11 to 20:3).

Between the temporal 2nd-coming judgment and wrath of Revelation 19:11 to 20:3 and the eternal judgment and wrath of Revelation 20:11-15 will occur the millennium and the subsequent Gog/Magog rebellion (Revelation 20:4-10, Ezekiel chapters 38-39).

random person said in post 21:

1 Thessalonians 5:3: For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape [strong dual negative in the Greek].

The unsaved people of the world will have no idea most of them are going to be killed at Jesus' 2nd coming until it happens (Matthew 24:37-39). For they could think the 2nd coming had already occurred with the coming into power of the Antichrist's miracle-working False Prophet (Revelation 13:13-14, Revelation 19:20), who could claim to be Jesus returned. And just as the people of the world shortly before Noah's flood, even though they could see or hear about Noah building his huge ark, no doubt rejected the idea that YHWH had the power to actually cause a global flood which would kill them, so the people of the world at the end of the future tribulation could reject the idea that YHWH has the power to actually defeat them.

For during the tribulation's 2nd half the world will see the power of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) and his fallen angels (Revelation 12:9), and the power Lucifer will give to the Antichrist to take over the entire earth (Revelation 13:4-8) and to utterly revile YHWH year after year without being destroyed (Revelation 13:5-6, Daniel 11:36), and to physically overcome and kill people in the church in every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13). And the world will see the amazing miraculous powers that Lucifer will give to the Antichrist's False Prophet, by which he will be able to even call fire down from heaven in the sight of everyone (Revelation 13:13, cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:9).

And near the end of the future tribulation the world will see the Antichrist's defeat of YHWH's amazingly-powerful two witnesses (Revelation 11:3-9), after which defeat the world will rejoice and make merry and send gifts to each other because the two witnesses had been sending plagues on the world (Revelation 11:10,6). And even though those plagues will be shortly followed by even more plagues from YHWH, poured out directly from heaven (Revelation 16, the tribulation's final stage), the people of the world won't lose their confidence that YHWH can still be defeated. For after almost all the plagues from heaven are over, the world will see the awesome miraculous powers of some unclean spirits, convincing the world's armies to gather together for a battle against YHWH (Revelation 16:13-14, Revelation 19:19). And so the world could come to that battle at the very end of the tribulation with the same careless attitude as some people at the start of the American Civil War, who held picnics at the expected first battleground of Bull Run/Manassas to watch the battle and what they expected to be a quick and easy victory.

random person said in post 21:

2 Thessalonians 1:7b–8; 2:12: When the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ ... That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 refers to Jesus' 2nd coming, which will occur before the millennium (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Zechariah 14:3-21). 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 doesn't say "all" the unsaved will be killed at the 2nd coming, for some will be left alive (Matthew 24:39b-40), and they will enter the millennium (Zechariah 14:16-19). Also, the "vengeance" and "everlasting destruction" at the 2nd coming (2 Thessalonians 1:8-9) won't be the lake of fire for everyone killed, just as "the vengeance of eternal fire" which came on Sodom and Gomorrah (Jude 1:7) wasn't the lake of fire for those killed. For only the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") and his False Prophet will be cast into the lake of fire at the 2nd coming (Revelation 19:20). The rest of the unsaved won't be cast into the lake of fire until after they've been bodily resurrected and judged at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11-15). Between the 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:3) and the great white throne judgment will occur the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6) and the subsequent Gog/Magog rebellion (Revelation 20:7-10, Ezekiel chapters 38-39).

random person said in post 21:

2 Thessalonians 1:7b–8; 2:12: When the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ ... That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

In 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 the original Greek word (pas, G3956) translated as "all" doesn't have to mean absolutely all, but can mean "all manner of" (Acts 10:12). 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 doesn't mean absolutely all unsaved people will believe the lie and worship the Antichrist and receive his mark. For there will be some unsaved elect Jews who will refuse to receive his mark, and so they will be able to be saved by Jesus when they see him in person at his 2nd coming (Romans 11:25-29, Zechariah 12:10-14). Anyone who willingly receives the mark can never be saved (Revelation 14:9-11).

random person said in post 21:

And you always cite Isaiah 65:20 BUT YOU NEVER CITE ISAIAH 65:17!!!!!

Isaiah 65:20 could refer to a new race of humans which will be created along with the new earth (Isaiah 65:17), but which will fall into sin and mortality like Adam and Eve did. But even as mortals, they could live for about 900 years, like Adam and generations after him lived that long (Genesis 5:5-27), so that if one of them dies at 100, it will be like he died in his youth (Isaiah 65:20b).

If Isaiah 65:20 does refer to the new earth, then it can't refer to any humans born on our present earth. For by the time the new earth is created (Revelation 21:1), all humans born on our present earth who got saved and remained obedient will have been resurrected (if dead) or changed (if alive) into immortal bodies (Revelation 21:4; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53, Romans 8:23-25). And all who didn't get saved or who remained disobedient will have been cast into the lake of fire and brimstone (Revelation 21:8, Revelation 20:10,15, Revelation 14:10-11, Isaiah 66:22,24, Matthew 25:41,46, Mark 9:45-46) or into the outer darkness (Matthew 25:30, Matthew 8:12, Jude 1:13b) of outer space.

The resurrected, immortal humans could minister to the new race of fallen, mortal humans (of Isaiah 65:20) in the same way that angels now minister to us (Hebrews 1:14). For resurrected, immortal humans will be equal to the angels (Luke 20:36).
 
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random person said in post 23:

What did JESUS mean in John 6:39-40,44,54?

In John 6:39,40,44,54 the original Greek word translated as the last "day" (hemera, G2250) doesn't have to mean the last 24-hour day, but can be used figuratively to refer to a much longer period of time (e.g. see the Greek of 2 Corinthians 6:2; 2 Peter 3:8, and John 8:56). John 6:39,40,44,54 will occur in the last period of time of this present earth, but they won't occur on the same 24-hour day (Revelation 20:5).

The "last days" began in the first century AD with Jesus' first coming (Hebrews 1:2) and the Holy Spirit's pouring out at the Pentecost in Acts 2 (Acts 2:16-17). The last days can be the last 3, roughly 1,000-year "days" (2 Peter 3:8) of the 7, roughly 1,000-year "days" from the creation of Adam in roughly 4,000 BC to the future end of the present earth and the creation of the new earth (Revelation 21:1) in roughly 3,000 AD. So the last "days" can be the roughly 3,000 years from Jesus' first coming to sometime after the future millennium (Revelation 20:4-6), which will be part of the last, roughly 1,000-year "day" (2 Peter 3:8), which could begin at Jesus' (never fulfilled) 2nd coming (1 Corinthians 1:7-8).

random person said in post 23:

Maybe you are partially right, maybe dispensationalism and the Rapture is the great end times apostacy? Maybe that's the great delusion?

The Antichrist will have a False Prophet who will work amazing miracles by which people will be deceived (Revelation 13:12-14, Revelation 19:20, cf. Matthew 24:24). And God will send strong delusion on unrepentant people so they will believe "the" lie (2 Thessalonians 2:11-12; in the original Greek there's a "the" before "lie"), which could be the antichrist lie that's been around since the 1st century AD (2 John 1:7; 1 John 4:3; 2 Thessalonians 2:7a) and which in the future will deceive the world into worshipping both Lucifer (Satan) the dragon and the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), the man of sin (2 Thessalonians 2:3-9), as God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). The antichrist lie denies Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22), denies Jesus is the human/divine Son of God (1 John 2:22b), and denies Christ is in the flesh (2 John 1:7), which denial is one of the key doctrines of Gnosticism.

It's important for Christians to realize that during the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18), even though the world will worship Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) and the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) (Revelation 13:4-8, Revelation 12:9), this won't require that the Antichrist's one-world religion will say that Jesus is evil, or will turn the world against Jesus. For almost the entire world reveres Jesus, at least as being a good man. The Antichrist could confirm this basic world belief, but simply (in his words) "clarify" that while Jesus is indeed a good man, Jesus himself isn't the Christ or the Son of God (1 John 2:22). No doubt the Antichrist will also deny that Jesus died on the Cross for our sins, as this, just as believing that Jesus is the Christ and the Son of God (John 20:31, John 3:36), is one of the core beliefs of the gospel by which people become saved (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

So what the Antichrist could do is keep the idea of a good Jesus, but strip it of everything by which Jesus saves people from hell. And this wouldn't require that the Antichrist deny Jesus' 2nd coming. Indeed, the Antichrist and his False Prophet (Revelation 19:20) could even try to employ to their own ends the Biblical prophecy of Jesus' 2nd coming, as well as the Muslim prophecy which says that the miracle-working prophet Jesus will return bodily from heaven in the last days to bring the whole earth into the worship of the true God. For the False Prophet could claim that he is Jesus, returned to bring the whole earth into the worship of the true God. And he could perform amazing miracles (Revelation 13:13) as purported proof of his claim (cf. John 3:2). This is one reason why it is so important to know when and how the real Jesus' 2nd coming will happen (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Zechariah 14:3-21).

Once the False Prophet by his amazing miracles has brought the world under his spell (Revelation 13:13-18, Revelation 19:20), including many Muslims and Christians who may not care much for scriptural dogma, but could go wild over his signs and wonders, he could begin to (in his words) "restore to the world the real message which was spoken by me (Jesus) at my first coming, and by the great prophet Mohammed, but which message became corrupted by power-hungry men when they copied and changed the early manuscripts of the Bible and the Koran". He could then gradually initiate the world into the Antichrist's Gnostic Luciferianism (1 John 4:3, Revelation 13:4-6), a religion which could have existed since ancient times in some "mystery" cults, and which still exists today in the highest degree of initiation of a worldwide secret society. The False Prophet could present his miraculously calling fire down from heaven (Revelation 13:13) as purported proof that Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) and the Antichrist are the true God (Revelation 13:4-8, Revelation 12:9), in an inversion of how back in Old Testament times, Elijah miraculously called fire down from heaven to prove that YHWH is the true God (1 Kings 18:37-39).

The person whom the Antichrist will revile is YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36), whom many people mistakenly think of as being (in their words) "the God of only the Old Testament, that cruel and hateful God who commanded people to commit genocide and kill babies (1 Samuel 15:3), while Jesus came and preached love for everyone (Matthew 5:44)". The truth is that Jesus confirmed that the God of the Old Testament, YHWH (Deuteronomy 6:4-5, Leviticus 19:18), is the same as the God of the New Testament (Mark 12:29-31), and that the Old Testament is true (Matthew 5:17-18, Luke 24:44-48). Jesus died for our sins in fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy from YHWH (Isaiah 53; 1 Peter 2:24). And he rose from the dead in fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy from YHWH (e.g. Psalms 16:10, Acts 2:31). Jesus died to establish the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28), which YHWH had foretold in the Old Testament (Jeremiah 31:31-34). And Jesus died to bring about the defeat of Satan (Hebrews 2:14), which YHWH had foretold from even the first book of the Old Testament (Genesis 3:15).

Nonetheless, building on many people's misconceptions of YHWH as being (in their words) "the cruel God of the Old Testament", no doubt one of the Antichrist's chief blasphemies against YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36) will be that YHWH is an evil god. This is one of the ancient blasphemies of Gnosticism, another being the antichrist lie that Christ isn't in the flesh (2 John 1:7). The world will be deceived into completely rejecting YHWH and worshipping Satan and the Antichrist instead (Revelation 13:4-8, Revelation 12:9). Satan may be worshipped not as "Satan", which most everyone sees as a bad name (it means "Adversary"), but as "Lucifer" (Isaiah 14:12), which means "the morning star". The Antichrist could lie and say that it is YHWH who is the true "Satan", the true "Adversary" of mankind.

Because the Antichrist and his False Prophet (possibly masquerading as Jesus) will deny that Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22), and will deny that Christ is in the flesh (1 John 4:3), and because they will bring the world into the worship of Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) instead (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9), they could lie and say that (the non-mortal flesh) Lucifer is the Christ, that the new name of Christ (Revelation 3:12c) is "Lucifer Christ". For just as "Lucifer" means "the morning star", so Christ is the morning star (Revelation 22:16b). Also, Christ identified himself with the serpent (John 3:14), and Lucifer is the serpent (Revelation 12:9). Also, Christ said "Ye are gods" (John 10:34), and it was the serpent who said "ye shall be as gods" (Genesis 3:5).

But the truth is that Lucifer fell from his office of morning star (Isaiah 14:12) and became Satan (cf. Luke 10:18). Jesus Christ has taken over the office of morning star (Revelation 22:16). And Jesus Christ identified himself with only the brass serpent on the pole in Numbers 21:8-9 (John 3:14), which typified Jesus Christ's crucifixion for our sins (John 19:16, Matthew 26:28). And in John 10:34, Jesus Christ (John 20:31) was quoting YHWH in Psalms 82:6-7, which shows that even though humans have knowledge of good and evil as gods do (Genesis 3:22), they will still die like humans (Psalms 82:7), contradicting the serpent's lie (Genesis 3:4). Nonetheless, the Antichrist could falsely say that Lucifer is the Christ and the true and beneficent God of mankind, and that the False Prophet is the miracle-working prophet Jesus (cf. John 3:2, Acts 3:22-24), returned to point the world to the true Christ/God. The Antichrist could falsely say that he (the Antichrist) is the human/divine "Son" of Lucifer, who must be worshipped as God along with Lucifer (Revelation 13:4,8). This would be similar to how Biblical Christians now rightly worship the human/divine Jesus Christ (John 1:1,14) as God (the Son) along with God the Father (John 20:28, Hebrews 1:8).

Near the end of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, unclean spirits like frogs will come out of the mouths of Lucifer, the Antichrist, and the False Prophet (Revelation 16:13). And these unclean spirits like frogs will go forth and perform amazing miracles to convince the world's armies to gather together at Armageddon (Har Megiddo: Mount Megiddo in northern Israel) (Revelation 16:16) in an attempt to fight and defeat YHWH himself (Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:19). After gathering together at Armageddon, the armies will travel south and pillage Jerusalem, right before the real Jesus (who is YHWH: John 10:30) returns from heaven and defeats them completely (Zechariah 14:2-21, Revelation 19:20 to 20:3).
 
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yeshuasavedme said in post 26:

Revelation has the rapture in chapter 4, and then tells the unleashing of the evil on the inhabitants of the earth afterwards.

Revelation 4:1 refers only to John the apostle, by himself, making an only-temporary visit up to the 3rd heaven at one point during his lifetime back in the first century AD, just as 2 Corinthians 12:2 refers only to Paul the apostle, by himself, making an only-temporary visit up to the 3rd heaven at one point during his lifetime back in the first century AD. Neither verse refers to the future rapture of the church only as high as the clouds of the sky to hold a meeting in the air with Jesus at his 2nd coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

Also, no significance should be read into the fact that the specific word "church" is mentioned many times in Revelation chapters 1-3, but not mentioned again until Revelation 22, just as no significance should be read into the fact that the specific word "church" is mentioned many times in Romans 16, but not mentioned in Romans chapters 1 to 15. The reason that the word "church" is mentioned many times in Revelation chapters 1-3 is because those chapters refer to 7 literal, first century AD local church congregations in 7 cities in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:11).

The church, in the general sense, will definitely be in the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. For believers will definitely be in it (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4, Matthew 24:9-13), and there are now no believers outside of the church (Ephesians 4:4-6). Also, just as the mistaken, pre-tribulation rapture view admits that Revelation chapters 19 to 22 include references to the church without using the specific word "church", so it should be able to admit that Revelation chapters 6 to 18 can include references to the church without using the specific word "church".
 
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This article list three reasons why premillennialism is bad!

1. Premillennialism clouds one’s conception of the nature of Christ’s kingdom. The kingdom of Christ is the central idea of the New Testament. One cannot read the New Testament, even in the most causal manner, without being constantly confronted with teaching of the kingdom. Is this teaching important to Christians today, and how important is it? What advantage is there in muddled thinking here, when the Bible itself is very clear? Honest dealings with the New Testament teaching on the kingdom of Christ, friends, leads one away from the man-made theory of premillennialism.

2. Premillennialism clouds one’s conception of the judgment that attends Christ’s second coming. Many important things could be said here, but what is necessary to know is that a very “skewed” understanding of biblical eschatology is the product of our flirtation with premillennial heresy. All kinds of irrational nonsense emerges that is sluffed off on the unsuspecting as “end-time Bible prophecy.” Compete doctrinal chaos is most often, sadly, the observable result.

3 Premillennialism weakens one’s commitment to orthodox Christianity as a religion based on the objective written Word of God. The exegetical foundation for premillennialism is very tenuous, to say the least. The defense of it drives the rational mind in the wrong direction, toward subjectivism, rather than toward objectivity in the formation of religious understanding. This opens the can of worms now called neo-orthodoxy and situation ethics.

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Here is a second article:

1. Speculation. Modern premillennial teaching is based on men's speculation, not on a sound exegesis of God's Word. This one example proves our point: if it were not for Revelation chapter twenty, nobody would have ever heard of the idea that Jesus was coming back to set up his kingdom and reign on earth for a thousand years. Nobody, that is, except those Jews who rejected Jesus as their Messiah in the First Century, and even they would not have known from the Old Testament that Messiah's kingdom was to last a thousand years!


2. Subversion. A second danger of premillennialism is doctrinal subversion. Premillennialism subverts the clear New Testament teaching of the present messianic reign and kingdom of Jesus Christ, thereby arming its devotees with a conception of Christianity having no messianic content, when, in fact, messianism was the core idea of New Testament Christianity, and definitive of the apostolic faith. "Thou art the Christ" (Matthew 16:16)--not, "thou shalt become the Christ, Jesus, in the future millennial age, when you have returned to set up your kingdom."

3. Substitution. Thirdly, there is the danger of gospel content substitution. If Christ's messianic kingdom is redemption, or the plan of full salvation, then to postpone the kingdom means in essence to substitute something else in place of holiness in heart and life as God's revealed plan for the nations in this present age.

Such a denial of the full salvation redemptive content of this present age (as premillennialism must of necessity maintain in order to make room for the glories of its millennial era--that is, the robbing Peter to pay Paul principle) leads both logically and naturally to antinomianism.

Why does the world need a post-second coming millennium to have righteousness, peace, and joy on earth when, according to the New Testament, these are the very benefits that are intended to result from an acceptance of the Christian gospel?


COMPLETE ARTICLE HERE Untitled Document
 
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This article list three reasons why premillennialism is bad!

1. Premillennialism clouds one’s conception of the nature of Christ’s kingdom. The kingdom of Christ is the central idea of the New Testament. One cannot read the New Testament, even in the most causal manner, without being constantly confronted with teaching of the kingdom. Is this teaching important to Christians today, and how important is it? What advantage is there in muddled thinking here, when the Bible itself is very clear? Honest dealings with the New Testament teaching on the kingdom of Christ, friends, leads one away from the man-made theory of premillennialism.

2. Premillennialism clouds one’s conception of the judgment that attends Christ’s second coming. Many important things could be said here, but what is necessary to know is that a very “skewed” understanding of biblical eschatology is the product of our flirtation with premillennial heresy. All kinds of irrational nonsense emerges that is sluffed off on the unsuspecting as “end-time Bible prophecy.” Compete doctrinal chaos is most often, sadly, the observable result.

3 Premillennialism weakens one’s commitment to orthodox Christianity as a religion based on the objective written Word of God. The exegetical foundation for premillennialism is very tenuous, to say the least. The defense of it drives the rational mind in the wrong direction, toward subjectivism, rather than toward objectivity in the formation of religious understanding. This opens the can of worms now called neo-orthodoxy and situation ethics.

Untitled Document

This is all so wholly false as to not even deserve an answer.
 
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Here is a second article:

1. Speculation. Modern premillennial teaching is based on men's speculation, not on a sound exegesis of God's Word. This one example proves our point: if it were not for Revelation chapter twenty, nobody would have ever heard of the idea that Jesus was coming back to set up his kingdom and reign on earth for a thousand years. Nobody, that is, except those Jews who rejected Jesus as their Messiah in the First Century, and even they would not have known from the Old Testament that Messiah's kingdom was to last a thousand years!


It would be difficult to construct a more absolute tuning of truth upside down and backwards.

The speculation is not on the part of those that simply believe the scriptures. It is on the part of those that claim that all these explicitly stated prophecies are only symbolic. But then, even when a rational symbolic explanation cannot be found, they continue to claim they are symbolic, even if we cannot understand what they symbolize.

When we discover that in Ezekiel 36 God explicitly said that ""the land of Israel," along with "the mountains, the hills, the rivers, and the valleys" will again be inhabited by "all the house of Israel, all of it," we are faced with two choices. We can either simply believe this explicitly stated statement, or we can speculate about what this might symbolize. Those that sat it means what it says, that absolutely all of "the house of Israel" will again inhabit their ancient homeland are not speculating. they are simply believing what God said. But those who pretend that it is symbolic, and actually refers to something else, are left to speculate on the meanings of "the house of Israel," "the land of Israel," and "the mountains, the hills, the rivers, and the valleys."

This is just a single exaple of literally hundreds of such explicitly stated prophecies that we can either simply believe, or speculate about possible symbolic meanings they might hold.


2. Subversion. A second danger of premillennialism is doctrinal subversion. Premillennialism subverts the clear New Testament teaching of the present messianic reign and kingdom of Jesus Christ, thereby arming its devotees with a conception of Christianity having no messianic content, when, in fact, messianism was the core idea of New Testament Christianity, and definitive of the apostolic faith. "Thou art the Christ" (Matthew 16:16)--not, "thou shalt become the Christ, Jesus, in the future millennial age, when you have returned to set up your kingdom."

3. Substitution. Thirdly, there is the danger of gospel content substitution. If Christ's messianic kingdom is redemption, or the plan of full salvation, then to postpone the kingdom means in essence to substitute something else in place of holiness in heart and life as God's revealed plan for the nations in this present age.

Such a denial of the full salvation redemptive content of this present age (as premillennialism must of necessity maintain in order to make room for the glories of its millennial era--that is, the robbing Peter to pay Paul principle) leads both logically and naturally to antinomianism.

Why does the world need a post-second coming millennium to have righteousness, peace, and joy on earth when, according to the New Testament, these are the very benefits that are intended to result from an acceptance of the Christian gospel?


COMPLETE ARTICLE HERE Untitled Document

This subversion and substitution exist entirely in the imagination of the writer. The concept of a millennial kingdom on this earth has zero bearing on what is going on in the present age.

The scriptures very clearly teach, and every dispensational teacher I ever knew realizes, that all blessings of both this age and the one to come are based entirely on the finished work of Christ on the cross. The fact that the Lord will indeed have a physical reign on this earth after the end of the present age has zero bearing on this.
 
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Revelation 4:1 refers only to John the apostle, by himself, making an only-temporary visit up to the 3rd heaven.

Everything John sees after Rev 4 is events that happen after the rapture.
John sees the 24 elders seated and crowned. That is a post rapture event, and the affairs in heaven after that are post rapture/tribulation on earth below events having their origin in heaven.
Psalm 75:2,3 state quite clearly in the original language exactly what John is seeing: the rapture of the congregation of YHWH, first, and then the inhabitants of the earth judged and the events of the tribulation causing the hearts to "melt" on earth below -just like Jesus said would happen in those days, and the resetting of the "pillars" who uphold the earth -by the casting down of the wicked rulers and establishing the adopted sons of the Firstborn as kings and priests of the heavenly order, so as to reign forever along with the holy Watcher angels.
 
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What I am going to quote is not scripture, and so probably not that interesting to some of you (you know, Sola Scriptura and all that), but the "Fragments of Papias" has some lines that cover this debate or something similar to it.

The source behind the fragments is usually Eusebius, though the last fragment is from a Syrian text. They add historical context as to what the Early Church believed on this subject.

The first passage is FoP 3.12-13
12"Among other things he says that after the resurrection of the dead there will be a period of a thousand years when the kingdom of Christ will be set up in material form on this earth. These ideas, I suppose, he got through a misunderstanding of the apostolic accounts, not realizing that the things recorded in figurative language were spoken by them mystically."
13 "For he certainly appears to be a man of very little intelligence, as one may say judging from his own words. Yet he was the reason that so many ecclesiastical writers after him held the same opinion, on the grounds that he was a man of the early period- like Irenaeus, for example, and anyone else who has expressed similar ideas.

The second passage is 5.4: "and Papias is also in error in regarding the millennium, and so is Irenaeus who follows him."

The third is 7.7: "He [Papias] is the one who is said to have promulgated the Jewish tradition of a millennium, and he is followed by Irenaeus, Apollinarius, and others who say that after the resurrection the Lord will reign in the flesh with the saints."

The fourth is a longer one called Fragment 27: "Therefore, Apollonarius, the heretic, together with his companions abandoned all this brilliant splendor of the living words. He became as blind to the truth as the Jews. He dared to say, particularly like the Pharisees, that after the resurrection of the dead he would live again for a thousand years on earth in Jerusalem with the messiah, enjoying physical pleasures and offering childish sacrifices and earthy libations before him. When such events will have been completed at that time we shall be taken up to heaven. Further, he was not shamed by the voice of Paul who said 'The Kingdom of God is not food or drink, but righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit.' Also, in a similar manner, Irenaeus Bishop of Lyon in Gaul, strayed in these matters, which were conveyed from the book of Papias as Eusebius recalls."



These four fragments are interesting because it denies outright that there is a literal 1000 reign of Christ on earth, as well as this taking place after the resurrection.

Moreover, it says that this idea of a 1000 year literal reign is the same as, or similar to the Jewish understanding, specifically the Pharisaical understanding.

These are interesting fragments to interact with in this debate.
 
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What I am going to quote is not scripture, and so probably not that interesting to some of you (you know, Sola Scriptura and all that), but the "Fragments of Papias" has some lines that cover this debate or something similar to it.

The source behind the fragments is usually Eusebius, though the last fragment is from a Syrian text. They add historical context as to what the Early Church believed on this subject.

The first passage is FoP 3.12-13
12"Among other things he says that after the resurrection of the dead there will be a period of a thousand years when the kingdom of Christ will be set up in material form on this earth. These ideas, I suppose, he got through a misunderstanding of the apostolic accounts, not realizing that the things recorded in figurative language were spoken by them mystically."
13 "For he certainly appears to be a man of very little intelligence, as one may say judging from his own words. Yet he was the reason that so many ecclesiastical writers after him held the same opinion, on the grounds that he was a man of the early period- like Irenaeus, for example, and anyone else who has expressed similar ideas.

The second passage is 5.4: "and Papias is also in error in regarding the millennium, and so is Irenaeus who follows him."

The third is 7.7: "He [Papias] is the one who is said to have promulgated the Jewish tradition of a millennium, and he is followed by Irenaeus, Apollinarius, and others who say that after the resurrection the Lord will reign in the flesh with the saints."

The fourth is a longer one called Fragment 27: "Therefore, Apollonarius, the heretic, together with his companions abandoned all this brilliant splendor of the living words. He became as blind to the truth as the Jews. He dared to say, particularly like the Pharisees, that after the resurrection of the dead he would live again for a thousand years on earth in Jerusalem with the messiah, enjoying physical pleasures and offering childish sacrifices and earthy libations before him. When such events will have been completed at that time we shall be taken up to heaven. Further, he was not shamed by the voice of Paul who said 'The Kingdom of God is not food or drink, but righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit.' Also, in a similar manner, Irenaeus Bishop of Lyon in Gaul, strayed in these matters, which were conveyed from the book of Papias as Eusebius recalls."



These four fragments are interesting because it denies outright that there is a literal 1000 reign of Christ on earth, as well as this taking place after the resurrection.

Moreover, it says that this idea of a 1000 year literal reign is the same as, or similar to the Jewish understanding, specifically the Pharisaical understanding.

These are interesting fragments to interact with in this debate.

The fragments of Papias are so indeed fragmentary that we actually know almost nothing about his teachings other than that he was definitely a pre-millennialist and that Irenaeus and numerous other early Christian writers followed his views.

We do know much about the eschatological views of Iraenaeus, as the last twelve chapters of his famous work titled "Against Heresies" were totally devoted to end time prophecy.

So what do know is that the earliest Christian writer on prophecy that we know about was pre-millennial. And he is thought tp have written around 16 to 46 years after most historians date the writing of the Revelation.

We also now that the oldest Christian commentary of prophesy of any significant length that has survived to the present (the work of Iranaeus)was pre-millennial, and the oldest Christian commentary on scripture (a commentary on Daniel by Hyppolytus) was also pre-millennial.

So pre-millennialism was unquestionably the original doctrine of the church.
 
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