Sitting on 7 hills?

[ByTheSpirit]

Sure its a metaphor, but for what. Metaphor's have meaning, they aren't just pointless thoughts.

 

[Alithis]

Sure its a metaphor, but for what. Metaphor's have meaning, they aren't just pointless thoughts.

they certainly do the parables are metaphors and yet absolute truth at the same time

 

[rdclmn72]

Moses sat on a hill and exercised power and authority to the extent that he won a battle with the enemy.
Sitting on seven hills means then that there will be an alliance of seven hostile enemies who will attack from the north.
They will assemble at Armageddon ascend the hills and attack, take and attempt to massacre the survivors only to die by plague.

 

[Rhamiel]

I do believe that the Anti-Christ will be a singular person and that part is not metaphorical
Paul calls him the "man of sin"

the "great city" where the two witnesses will be killed is identified as Jerusalem

the harlot of Babylon is a false religious system that will have a lot of economic and political power
but I think the term "7 hills" might be a bit more metaphorical
is the greek word used "hill" or is it also sometimes used for "mountain"?

7 is used a lot in the Bible as a complete number
so to me, 7 hills or 7 mountains shows that this system will not be in only one region, but all over the world
something that is now possible with modern technology but would have been almost unthinkable to ancient peoples, even the vast Roman Empire did not take up the entire ancient world and in theory the Roman Empire was under Caesar, but there were many Governors and Kings and local rulers under Caesar

 

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[Svt4Him]

Moses sat on a hill and exercised power and authority to the extent that he won a battle with the enemy.
Sitting on seven hills means then that there will be an alliance of seven hostile enemies who will attack from the north.
They will assemble at Armageddon ascend the hills and attack, take and attempt to massacre the survivors only to die by plague.

Of it could mean it's the city on 7 hills, kind of like Rome is.

 

[lismore]

I see the harlot of Babylon as a false church

I think we would be looking for a church that can fuse it's beliefs together with Islam into a chrislam type thing.

This statement from the Catholic catechism is interesting, in many ways:


841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

 

[ByTheSpirit]

I think we would be looking for a church that can fuse it's beliefs together with Islam into a chrislam type thing.

This statement from the Catholic catechism is interesting, in many ways:


841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

Very good point. The terminology the bible uses suggests not some new, outside force as the "WoB" but rather one who is unfaithful to their love. Such as the church of Ephesus that was accused by Jesus of leaving their first love. Not that the Ephesian church is such, not at all, but rather that sentiment that the "WoB" is indeed a church/system of believers that were once faithful and have since been turned astray by those itching ears Paul warned Timothy about...

 

[Rhamiel]

I think we would be looking for a church that can fuse it's beliefs together with Islam into a chrislam type thing.

This statement from the Catholic catechism is interesting, in many ways:


841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

I do not really see that as a kind of "fusing" with Islam
just trying to be respectful of other religions and to encourage the things we have in common
that is kind of the style that is being promoted
instead of just calling everyone heretics
you point out what you have in common, be honest about the differences, and go from there
yeah we do that with Islam
but we also do that with Protestants

 

[ByTheSpirit]

I do not really see that as a kind of "fusing" with Islam
just trying to be respectful of other religions and to encourage the things we have in common
that is kind of the style that is being promoted
instead of just calling everyone heretics
you point out what you have in common, be honest about the differences, and go from there
yeah we do that with Islam
but we also do that with Protestants

The problem as lismore pointed out is scripture is plain:

1 John 2:23 No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also.

Islam may acknowledge Jesus as a prophet but not as the Son of God, therefore as long as they persist in that manner they can not, as the catechism says, be included in the "plan of salvation... holding the faith of Abraham."

 

[Rhamiel]

I will not presume to teach on this subforum because I am a guest here


no one is saying that other religions can save you
so if that is what you are implying, then you are mistaken about what the Catholic Church teaches

 

[ByTheSpirit]

I will not presume to teach on this subforum because I am a guest here


no one is saying that other religions can save you
so if that is what you are implying, then you are mistaken about what the Catholic Church teaches

That's just how I read it. Not implying anything just making a statement of the word as presented. I may well have misunderstood it

 

[lismore]

just trying to be respectful of other religions and to encourage the things we have in common

Zero.

No religion saves, only Jesus Christ.

God Bless

 

[talitha]

harlot on the Beast: Babylon, which will be rebuilt by the Antichrist (literal person) and luego destroyed.

Beast: the World System.

Heads of the beast: various empires, chronological.. Egypt, Assyria, etc..

Hills or Mountains: the same empires..

 

[Rhamiel]

harlot on the Beast: Babylon, which will be rebuilt by the Antichrist (literal person) and luego destroyed.

Beast: the World System.

Heads of the beast: various empires, chronological.. Egypt, Assyria, etc..

Hills or Mountains: the same empires..

someone I was talking to last night mentioned that she believed that Babylon will be short lived and rebuilt by the Antichrist
but that there are precursors working in the world now
like the ancient pagan Roman Empire was in a sense the Babylon of its time

 

[ByTheSpirit]

I don't believe it is a literal Babylon because most things listed in Revelation are NOT to be taken literally, but metaphorically.

It even says, MYSTERY Babylon. In the prophets even, I think Jeremiah, God said through the prophet that Babylon would never be built again once it was destroyed. 2,000 years + after the fact, that prophecy is still true today.

 

[Rhamiel]

when I used the term Babylon I meant the exact system that will be used by the antichrist
I was not referring to what is now modern day Iraq

 

[talitha]

It even says, MYSTERY Babylon. In the prophets even, I think Jeremiah, God said through the prophet that Babylon would never be built again once it was destroyed. 2,000 years + after the fact, that prophecy is still true today.

Actually the Holman has a better translation of that verse: "On her forehead a cryptic name was written: BABYLON THE GREAT THE MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES AND OF THE VILE THINGS OF THE EARTH." John's vision of the woman on the beast was a mystery, but the identity of the woman was clearly written on her forehead, revealing at least that part of the mystery. Babylon was never completely destroyed, not to the extent that the Biblical prophecies predicted, so those prophecies are still yet to be fulfilled. Yes, they are still true, but they are not fulfilled.

 

[Alithis]

Actually the Holman has a better translation of that verse: "On her forehead a cryptic name was written: BABYLON THE GREAT THE MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES AND OF THE VILE THINGS OF THE EARTH." John's vision of the woman on the beast was a mystery, but the identity of the woman was clearly written on her forehead, revealing at least that part of the mystery. Babylon was never completely destroyed, not to the extent that the Biblical prophecies predicted, so those prophecies are still yet to be fulfilled. Yes, they are still true, but they are not fulfilled.

i note the descriptive nature of her clothing is of interest ... those colors and garb are not detailed by mistake .. and rather telling of one certain organisation

..interesting that

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Actually the Holman has a better translation of that verse: "On her forehead a cryptic name was written: BABYLON THE GREAT THE MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES AND OF THE VILE THINGS OF THE EARTH." John's vision of the woman on the beast was a mystery, but the identity of the woman was clearly written on her forehead, revealing at least that part of the mystery. Babylon was never completely destroyed, not to the extent that the Biblical prophecies predicted, so those prophecies are still yet to be fulfilled. Yes, they are still true, but they are not fulfilled.

I have been to the site of Babylon in modern Iraq... I can tell you, it is desolate.