Side discussion of the Sabbath

[Eccl12and13]

First we need to know the facts.


Here is what God commanded:

Lev 23 Chap.


[4] These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.
[5] In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD's passover.



And here is what Jesus did:

Matt 26

1. 2] Ye know that after two days is the feast of the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified.
2. [17] Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover?

And again:

Mark 14

1. [12] And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?
2. [14] And wheresoever he shall go in, say ye to the goodman of the house, The Master saith, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?

And again:


Luke 2:

1. [41] Now his parents went to Jerusalem every year at the feast of the passover.

And again:

Luke 22:


8] And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat.


And again from the verse you quoted:

I Cor 11:


23] For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:
[24] And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
[25] After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
[26] For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.



Now we know for a fact what it is that Jesus did. He was partaking in the Passover, just as he had done his entire life with his family. It was done ONCE a year ONLY!! It was not the Lords Supper, as it has become know today, and observed every 1st, 2nd 3rd Sun., but it was the Passover.

And I do not see anywhere where it says to do this OFTEN, but only, "..as often as ye do it..." meaning everyyear, once a year.

Yes it is important that we have the Bible as our authority but we must ensure that what we practice is from the Bible. Just as Paul told Timothy,;


II Tim chap 3:


[15] And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
[17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.


All scripture is good for correction.


And we will not even go into the day that God set aside for a holy convocation, but here are a few scriptures for those who want to know the truth:

Lev 23:

[1] And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
[2] Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.
[3] Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.


And what was Jesus custom?

Mark 6:

2] And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands?

Luke 4:

1. [16] And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

Luke 13:

10] And he was teaching in one of the synagogues on the sabbath.


And the disciples custom?

Acts 17:

1. [2] And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

Acts 18:


4] And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.


And for those who truly believe this law was changed I offer you the following verses:


Heb 9


[16] For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
[17] For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.


Do you know what a testament is? It is a Will. And when does that will go into effect? When a person dies.

Now who was it that dies for us....? Yes it was Jesus!!


Now here is the BIG question. Who has the authority to change a will? Or in our case the TESTAMENT? I only know of one who can do that.....! Now when must those changes be made? You got it.......before the testator (JESUS) dies.

Now I ask you at what point did Jesus change the 7th day Sabbath?

I know you may say this or that but the FACT remains...the testament must be changed before the testator dies.

Now what you must do is truly do some research to find out when God's Sabbath was changed by man. Because I can find nowhere in the Bible that Jesus changed it before he died......on Good Friday.......?

 

[Loveaboveall]

Interesting thoughts about the passover. From new testament scripture the term "brake bread" could mean either eating or partaking of the "Lord's Supper" so how do you really know that they were not eating in Acts 20:7?

 

[Eccl12and13]

Loveaboveall

(Interesting thoughts about the passover. From new testament scripture the term "brake bread" could mean either eating or partaking of the "Lord's Supper" so how do you really know that they were not eating in Acts 20:7?)



Here is the commandment from God concerning his feast days. Below tell when the Lord's passover and days of unleavened are to take place. As you will read the 1st day of Unleavened bread takes place the day after the passover, and you will notice both days only happen ONCE a year; the passover on the 14th day of the first month at evening, and the 1st day of unleavened bread on the 15th of the same month.


Lev 23:

[5] In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD's passover.
[6] And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.


Now let's read what Paul was doing the day before he sailed from Philippi.


Acts 20:


[6] And we sailed away from Philippi after the days of unleavened bread, and came unto them to Troas in five days; where we abode seven days.
[7] And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.



So as we can clearly see, Paul had already celebrated the Passover and the 1st day of Unleavened bread before leaving Philippi. Which means the only thing he could have been doing was having a meal or (breaking bread) with his fellow disciples.

Think about it, I'm sure Paul and the others, broke bread and talked about the Lord everyday, but does doing so change the commandments of God? Obviously not for we see Paul celebrating the passover just leaving Philippi.

I have a lesson called, Who is the real God of the Old Testament? Now that will tell you who truly implemented these Sabbaths and High days. Here's a hint;

Heb 13:8

[8] Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

I'll try to post it a little later.

Thanks for reading the post

 

[Loveaboveall]

Loveaboveall

(Interesting thoughts about the passover. From new testament scripture the term "brake bread" could mean either eating or partaking of the "Lord's Supper" so how do you really know that they were not eating in Acts 20:7?)



Here is the commandment from God concerning his feast days. Below tell when the Lord's passover and days of unleavened are to take place. As you will read the 1st day of Unleavened bread takes place the day after the passover, and you will notice both days only happen ONCE a year; the passover on the 14th day of the first month at evening, and the 1st day of unleavened bread on the 15th of the same month.


Lev 23:

[5] In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD's passover.
[6] And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.


Now let's read what Paul was doing the day before he sailed from Philippi.


Acts 20:


[6] And we sailed away from Philippi after the days of unleavened bread, and came unto them to Troas in five days; where we abode seven days.
[7] And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.



So as we can clearly see, Paul had already celebrated the Passover and the 1st day of Unleavened bread before leaving Philippi. Which means the only thing he could have been doing was having a meal or (breaking bread) with his fellow disciples.

Think about it, I'm sure Paul and the others, broke bread and talked about the Lord everyday, but does doing so change the commandments of God? Obviously not for we see Paul celebrating the passover just leaving Philippi.

I have a lesson called, Who is the real God of the Old Testament? Now that will tell you who truly implemented these Sabbaths and High days. Here's a hint;

Heb 13:8

[8] Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

I'll try to post it a little later.

Thanks for reading the post

The passover first pointed to Jesus, it predicted even to the day of when he would be crucified. Is that a coincidence? I don't think so. However, because the "day" was fulfilled (type met antitype) at the crucifixion does this mean we are still "required" to partake only at the specified time of passover. I believe it may be logical to partake at this time but I don't think it is limited to just one day out of the year. On the other hand, is it "required" to do this every sunday? I am leaning towards thinking biblical support is lacking in this area. You are just as much under the blood of Jesus whether you partake of it once a year or every day. It is your "heart" or attitude towards Christ. The Lord's Supper is to bring us into a closer walk with God. For it reminds us of His love. "I, if I be lifted up, will draw all men unto Me." John 12:32. We should contemplate often the cross and the love bestowed to us on calvary. This does not have to be the Lord's Supper but ones thoughts should be continually on Jesus and His love.

Thanks for posting.

 

[Apollos1]

To eccl12&13 –

Do you know what a testament is? It is a Will. And when does that will go into effect? When a person dies.

Now who was it that dies for us....? Yes it was Jesus!!

Agreed!

Now here is the BIG question. Who has the authority to change a will?

Invalid question! Testament/wills can NOT be changed after they go into effect (Galatians 3:15). BUT, new covenants can be made with new people with different stipulations.

The OLD testament was made with Israel ONLY (Deut. 5:3). Only the Jews were ever under this covenant – Romans 3:2,29. But God wanted to have a new covenant with ALL men – Jer. 31:31, Hebrews 8:8,13, 9:15, 12:24. This NEW covenant has different terms than the OLD covenant had. The OLD had one set of terms, the NEW has another sets of terms. The question now is – WHICH testament shall we follow today? I say the NEW !

Now I ask you at what point did Jesus change the 7th day Sabbath?

This was a term under the OLD covenant. It was given to Israel only as a day of rest – Exodus 31:16-17.

When Jesus died on the cross - as we agreed above - His testament went into effect. His new testament has NO provision for a rest (sabbath) day.

I know you may say this or that but the FACT remains...the testament must be changed before the testator dies.

This is ackward wording that probably causes you much confusion. A testament must be made and finalized before the death of the testator. Jesus testament is the will of the Father, so before times eternal this had been predetermined.

The point is not about what the bible explicitly states or authorizes, but on matters that it is silent on.

My prior points on Hebrews 2 (above) show precisely how God interprets His own words. God means what He says. Silence prohibits! If you can show another way to interpret what God says from His word, share that with us here! It is ALL about His word and what HE AUTHORIZES – His commands, the examples, and what He has shown to be acceptable. Man has no say – man gets no say!

Christ has ALL authority – Matthew 28:18-20. I hope you will see which testament you need to follow today.

 

[Eccl12and13]

To Apollos1

What day did the disciples keep as the Sabbath after Jesus Death?

What day did the early church keep after Jesus death?

Have you done any research at all on this subject?

What day will we keep as the Sabbath in God's new Kingdom?

What feast days will be kept in God's new Kingdom?


Please answer with scriptures and historical facts please.

One more thing....Who was it that made it a crime to celebrate the Sabbath on the 7th day?

Let me know when you get those FACTS!!! Remember...scriptures and historical facts only. Thanks

 

[JDIBe]

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a feast day or a new moon or a sabbath day:
17 which are a shadow of the things to come; but the body is Christ's.


Many early Jewish Christians did keep some of the Jewish cultural artifacts out of custom. Rom. 14:1-6 states that this is acceptable. What is not acceptable however, is to attempt to bind such customs on Gentiles, who were not under the Old Law in the first place, or Jews today for that matter. Early Christian history seems to indicate that Christians did not regard the Sabbath or other Jewish rites as mandatory, in agreement with Col. 2:16-17 above. Here are some historical quotes that I hope might be useful in your discussion...

(Once again, the standard disclaimer applies. Historical documents are not Scripture, not infallible, or equal in any way to Scripture. They simply provide secondary evidence, helping one understand how the early church interpreted Scripture.)

90AD DIDACHE: "Christian Assembly on the Lord's Day: 1. But every Lord's day do ye gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. (Didache: The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles, Chapter XIV)

150AD JUSTIN: ...those who have persecuted and do persecute Christ, if they do not repent, shall not inherit anything on the holy mountain. But the Gentiles, who have believed on Him, and have repented of the sins which they have committed, they shall receive the inheritance along with the patriarchs and the prophets, and the just men who are descended from Jacob, even although they neither keep the Sabbath, nor are circumcised, nor observe the feasts. Assuredly they shall receive the holy inheritance of God. (Dialogue With Trypho the Jew, 150-165 AD, Ante-Nicene Fathers , vol. 1, page 207)
150AD JUSTIN: There is no other thing for which you blame us, my friends, is there than this? That we do not live according to the Law, nor, are we circumcised in the flesh as your forefathers, nor do we observe the Sabbath as you do. (Dialogue with Trypho 10:1. In verse 3 the Jew Trypho acknowledges that Christians 'do not keep the Sabbath.')

155 AD Justin Martyr "[W]e too would observe the fleshly circumcision, and the Sabbaths, and in short all the feasts, if we did not know for what reason they were enjoined [on] you--namely, on account of your transgressions and the hardness of your heart. . . . [H]ow is it, Trypho, that we would not observe those rites which do not harm us--I speak of fleshly circumcision and Sabbaths and feasts? . . . God enjoined you [Jews] to keep the Sabbath, and impose on you other precepts for a sign, as I have already said, on account of your unrighteousness and that of your fathers" (Dialogue with Trypho the Jew 18, 21).

180AD ACTS OF PETER.- Paul had often contended with the Jewish teachers and had confuted them, saying 'it is Christ on whom your fathers laid hands. He abolished their Sabbath and fasts and festivals and circumcision.' (1: I)-2

200AD TERTULLIAN: "We solemnize the day after Saturday in contradistinction to those who call this day their Sabbath" (Tertullian's Apology, Ch 16)
200AD TERTULLIAN: It follows, accordingly, that, in so far as the abolition of carnal circumcision and of the old law is demonstrated as having been consummated at its specific times, so also the observance of the Sabbath is demonstrated to have been temporary. (An Answer to the Jews 4:1, Ante-Nicene Fathers Vol. 3, page 155)

250 AD IGNATIUS: "If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death....(Epistle of Ignatius to the Magnesians, Chapter IX)

That brings us up to at least 250 AD. I hope this helps in your discussion.

As far as what feast day we keep in God's New Kingdom, that would be Sunday, since the Church is God's New Kingdom on Earth. If you are referring to Heaven...

Rev 21:21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; each one of the several gates was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.
22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God the Almighty, and the Lamb, are the temple thereof.
23 And the city hath no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine upon it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the lamp thereof is the Lamb.
24 And the nations shall walk amidst the light thereof: and the kings of the earth bring their glory into it.
25 And the gates thereof shall in no wise be shut by day (for there shall be no night there):

Since there is but one eternal day, I suppose that it is our eternal feast day, an eternal Sunday if you will. (as opposed to Hell where it will be eternally Monday.... )

 

[Eccl12and13]

So....Let's Answer some Questions!!!




1) What day did the disciples keep as the Sabbath after Jesus Death?


Acts.13

[14] But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.

[27] For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.

[42] And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

[44] And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.


Acts.15

[21] For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

Acts.16

[13] And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.

Acts.17

[2] And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

Acts.18

[4] And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.





2) What day did the early church keep after Jesus death?


The 17th century historian William Cave reported that the early Christians, both Jews and those in Asia Minor, kept the Sabbath. Notice his report:


...the Sabbath or Saturday (for so the word sabbatum is constantly used in the writings of the fathers, when speaking of it as it relates to Christians) was held by them in great veneration, and especially in the Eastern parts honoured with all the public solemnities of religion. For which we are to know, that the gospel in those parts mainly prevailing amonst the Jews, they being generally the first converts to the Christian faith, they still retained a mighty reverence for the Mosaic institutions, and especially for the sabbath, as that which had been appointed by God himself, (as the memorial of his rest from the week of creation,) settled by their great master Moses, and celebrated by their ancestors for so many ages, as the solemn day of their public worship, and were therefore very loth that it should be wholly antiquated and laid aside.



Athanasius, bishop of Alexandria, tells us, that they assembled on Saturdays, not that they were infected with Judaism, but only to worship Jesus Christ, the Lord of the sabbath (Cave William, D.D. Primitive Christianity: or the Religion of the Ancient Christians in the First Ages of the Gospel. 1840 edition revised by H. Cary. Oxford, London, pp. 84-85).



Polycrates wrote this to the Roman Bishop Victor,

We observe the exact day; neither adding, nor taking away. For in Asia also great lights have fallen asleep, which shall rise again on the day of the Lord's coming, when he shall come with glory from heaven, and shall seek out all the saints. Among these are Philip, one of the twelve apostles, who fell asleep in Hierapolis; and his two aged virgin daughters, and another daughter, who lived in the Holy Spirit and now rests at Ephesus; and, moreover, John, who was both a witness and a teacher, who reclined upon the bosom of the Lord, and, being a priest, wore the sacerdotal plate. He fell asleep at Ephesus. And Polycarp in Smyrna, who was a bishop and martyr; and Thraseas, bishop and martyr from Eumenia, who fell asleep in Smyrna. All these observed the fourteenth day of the passover according to the Gospel, deviating in no respect, but following the rule of faith. And I also, Polycrates, the least of you all, do according to the tradition of my relatives, some of whom I have closely followed. For seven of my relatives were bishops; and I am the eighth. And my relatives always observed the day when the people put away the leaven. I, therefore, brethren, who have lived sixty-five years in the Lord, and have met with the brethren throughout the world, and have gone through every Holy Scripture, am not affrighted by terrifying words. For those greater than I have said ' We ought to obey God rather than man'...I could mention the bishops who were present, whom I summoned at your desire; whose names, should I write them, would constitute a great multitude. And they, beholding my littleness, gave their consent to the letter, knowing that I did not bear my gray hairs in vain, but had always governed my life by the Lord Jesus (Eusebius. Church History. Book V, Chapter 25)


EARLY CHRISTIANS

"The primitive Christians had a great veneration for the Sabbath, and spent the day in devotion and sermons. And it is not to be doubted but they derived this practice from the Apostles themselves, as appears by several scriptures to that purpose." Dialogues on the Lord’s Day, p. 189. London: 1701, by Dr. T.H. Morer.



EARLY CHRISTIANS

". . . The Sabbath was a strong tie which united them with the life of the whole people, and in keeping the Sabbath holy they followed not only the example but also the command of Jesus." Geschichte des Sonntags, pp. 13, 14.



2ND CENTURY CHRISTIANS

The Gentile Christians observed also the Sabbath. Gieseler’s Church History, Vol. 1, ch. 2, par. 30, p. 93



EARLY CHRISTIANS

"The primitive Christians did keep the Sabbath of the Jews . . . therefore the Christians, for a long time together, did keep their conventions upon the Sabbath, in which some portions of the law were read: and this continued till the time of the Laodicean council." The Whole Works of Jeremy Taylor, Vol. IX, p. 416 (R. Heber’s Edition, Vol. XII, p. 416)...



EGYPT (OXYRHYNCHUS PAPYRUS – 200-250 A.D.)

"Except ye make the Sabbath a real Sabbath [sabbatize the Sabbath, Greek], ye shall not see the father." The Oxyrhynchus Papyri, pt. L, p. 3, Logion 2, verse 4-11 (London: Offices of the Egypt Exploration Fund, 1898)...



EARLY CHRISTIANS

"The seventh-day Sabbath was . . . solemnised by Christ, the Apostles, and the primitive Christians, till the Laodicean Council did in a manner quite abolish the observations of it." Dissertation on the Lord’s Day, pp. 33, 34, 44...



SPAIN – Council Elvira (A.D. 305)

Canon 26 of the Council of Elvira reveals that the Church of Spain at that time kept Saturday, the seventh day. "As to fasting every Sabbath: Resolved, that the error be corrected of fasting every Sabbath." This resolution of the council is in direct opposition to the policy the church at Rome had inaugurated, that of commanding Sabbath as a fast day in order to humiliate it and make it repugnant to the people...



PERSIA – A.D. 335-375

"They despise our sun god. Did not Zoroaster, the sainted founder of our divine beliefs, institute Sunday one thousand years ago in honour of the sun and supplant the Sabbath of the Old Testament. Yet these Christians have divine services on Saturday." O’Leary, The Syriac Church and Fathers, pp. 83, 84. (Coltheart JF. The Sabbath of God Through the Centuries. Leaves-of-Autumn Books, Inc. Payson, Arizona, 1954.




3) What day will we keep as the Sabbath in God's new Kingdom?


Isa 66;

[22] For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
[23] And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
[24] And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against





4) What feast days will be kept in God's new Kingdom?


Zach 14;


[16] And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

[18] And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

[19] This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.




5) Who was it that made it a crime to celebrate the Sabbath on the 7th day?

OK...You guys need to do a little research on your own.



I lool foward to all comments and posts.

 

[crawfish]

5) Who was it that made it a crime to celebrate the Sabbath on the 7th day?

OK...You guys need to do a little research on your own.



I lool foward to all comments and posts.

Not a crime really, but: Romans 14.

 

[JDIBe]

Well right off the top of my head, I notice that most of your earliest church evidence comes from scholars who lived much later, theorizing what took place. Do you have any more quotes from Christians who lived during that early time? Those seem useful to me.

Another thing you might want to check is your quote from Polycrates. I don't feel this is your strongest argument. Apparently, this practice was confined to some churches in Asia. (Hence your 17th Century Will. Cave quote.) The issue was whether or not the Lord's Supper should be taken on Saturday, not should the Sabbath proper be observed. This was not standard practice throughout the churches. The quote you give is in a letter to the Bishop of Rome, Victor. After reading it, Victor almost had Polycrates excommunicated. (he was saved by Irenaeus, most notably) Apparently this was a minority view. You might wish to do a little more research on that one. I'll check out the others later. If you are interested in other quotes from Eusebius on the matter, here are two for your consideration....

300AD EUSEBIUS: "They did not, therefore, regard circumcision, nor observe the Sabbath neither do we; … because such things as these do not belong to Christians" (Ecc. Hist., Book 1, Ch. 4)

300AD EUSEBIUS: [The Ebionites] were accustomed to observe the Sabbath and other Jewish customs but on the Lord's days to celebrate the same practices as we in remembrance of the resurrection of the Savior. (Church History Ill.xxvii.5)

Apparently, there was a small sect (the Ebionites) who did attempt to keep the Sabbath, but they also kept traditional Christian practices on Sunday as well.

The first historical record of methodical Sabbath Keeping by Christians who stopped worshipping on the first day of the week I know of, was two active Anabaptist leaders, Andreas Fisher and Oswald Glait, became the pioneer and promoters of the Sabbath in 1527 AD. Both were former priests who had sacrificed the priesthood to become first Lutherans, and then Anabaptists.

As for Paul going to the synagougue on the Sabbath, well of course he did. If you want to catch fish, you have to go to the pond! At the synagogue Paul would find people receptive to God's Word. One might as well attempt to bind Acts 16 on us all and say we must worship on Saturday down by the river. I feel it is notable that Paul is the same person who wrote Col. 2:16-17 and Rom. 14.

You also might want to read Acts 15 again a little more carefully. See what the problem was and the resolution.

In short, keep the Sabbath if you want to. Give up whipped cream on Tuesdays. Whatever you do, do for the Lord.

But don't attempt to bind Jewish customs on people who aren't Jews in the first place. Otherwise, one finds oneself "walking in the light" while grasping at "shadows".

Keep searching and good luck.

...Oh, and I guess I should have said this before.....

Welcome to the forum.

 

[Eccl12and13]

Hello JDibe:

Thanks for the welcome.

And thanks for reading and responding to my post.

You are correct with the fact that by 300AD, and much earlier, most had started worshiping on Sunday, but that is the point I'm trying to make.

From the start the christians continued with the practice that was given them by the disciples, but, as I'm sure you are aware, as more and more cults were admitted into the fold they brought along with them the practices of old.


And I must ask you, whose Sabbath and customs am I commanded to keep? Lev. chap 23 tells us it is the Lords Sabbaths we are to observe. I didn't know there were Jews around on the 7th day of creation!


And as the Bible states in the verses you did not comment on, for those who are fortunate enough to enter into the Kingdom of God, one way or another we all will worship, HIS Sabbath, and celebrate all of HIS feast days. And I doubt we will have a choice on which day we decide to keep.

The one thing I have learned is that God will not lift the vails off of everyones eyes. So I just post hoping I will reach that one person HE has choosen.

I thank this site for the opportunity to share the things which are to be.

 

[crawfish]

Hello JDibe:

Thanks for the welcome.

And thanks for reading and responding to my post.

You are correct with the fact that by 300AD, and much earlier, most had started worshiping on Sunday, but that is the point I'm trying to make.

From the start the christians continued with the practice that was given them by the disciples, but, as I'm sure you are aware, as more and more cults were admitted into the fold they brought along with them the practices of old.


And I must ask you, whose Sabbath and customs am I commanded to keep? Lev. chap 23 tells us it is the Lords Sabbaths we are to observe. I didn't know there were Jews around on the 7th day of creation!


And as the Bible states in the verses you did not comment on, for those who are fortunate enough to enter into the Kingdom of God, one way or another we all will worship, HIS Sabbath, and celebrate all of HIS feast days. And I doubt we will have a choice on which day we decide to keep.

The one thing I have learned is that God will not lift the vails off of everyones eyes. So I just post hoping I will reach that one person HE has choosen.

I thank this site for the opportunity to share the things which are to be.

Paul, as early as 50AD, was dealing with problems in the church where some Jewish Christians were demanding that the gentiles honor the sabbath as a part of their Christian responsibilities. Paul vehemently opposes this; there was nothing wrong with them honoring the sabbath, but there were big problems with forcing gentiles to do the same. Quite simply, it was a tradition that was not required by the Christian.

Romans 14.

 

[JDIBe]

Hello JDibe:

Thanks for the welcome.

And thanks for reading and responding to my post.

You are correct with the fact that by 300AD, and much earlier, most had started worshiping on Sunday, but that is the point I'm trying to make.

From the start the christians continued with the practice that was given them by the disciples, but, as I'm sure you are aware, as more and more cults were admitted into the fold they brought along with them the practices of old.
....

I thank this site for the opportunity to share the things which are to be.

So you posted all those opinions from scholars and early documents about the Sabbath to prove that the people fell away from it? Are there any early church documents that definitively prove that such a view was a majority view? please, let me encourage you to study those documents yourself rather than rely on certain scholars' opinions of them.

I will agree with you that as more and more cults (such as the Ebionites) popped up they did bring in practices of the old. Unfortunately, those "old practices" happen to be sabbath-keeping.

It is impossible, IMO, to attempt to prove a general, widespread Saturday Sabbath keeping of the early church from historical documents. The only "evidence" seems to come from scholars who existed 1900 years later.

Likewise, we do appreciate the time you have taken to be with us.

 

[Eccl12and13]

I notice everyone pick and choose which part of a post or question they will answer and avoid the ones they have no responce for.


Like I said, only a few will get this, and God will be the one who picks!


Thanks for all of the replies though!!!

 

[Eccl12and13]

Oh and by the way, Can someone please give me the scripture that says we are going to Heaven.......remember....chapter and verse only.....thanks!!!

 

[crawfish]

I notice everyone pick and choose which part of a post or question they will answer and avoid the ones they have no responce for.


Like I said, only a few will get this, and God will be the one who picks!


Thanks for all of the replies though!!!

I notice that you don't actually answer any of the responses.

You're mistake is assuming that the only reason somebody wouldn't answer EVERY item in your post is because they can't. The truth is actually quite different, at least in my case.

 

[sentipente]

Oh and by the way, Can someone please give me the scripture that says we are going to Heaven.......remember....chapter and verse only.....thanks!!!

It's a nice thing to say.

 

[Apollos1]

Love above –

I read your post (#40 above) in reference to the “first day of the week”. You said…

(Interesting thoughts about the passover. From new testament scripture the term "brake bread" could mean either eating or partaking of the "Lord's Supper" so how do you really know that they were not eating in Acts 20:7?)

Of course we know that this was the Lord’s Supper. The CONTEXT (which you both ignored pieices and abused the rest) determines what Luke is telling us in Acts 20:7. (At least it appears you have given up on your spurious notion that this event took place on Monday! Lol!)

6 And we sailed away from Philippi after the days of unleavened bread, and came
unto them to Troas in five days, where we tarried seven days.
7 And upon the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break
bread, Paul discoursed with them, intending to depart on the morrow; and prolonged
his speech until midnight.

Verse 6 says nothing about Paul “celebrated” Passover – you had to read that into the
passage.

Verse 7 states what the purpose of the gathering on Sunday was – “to break bread”. You should answer WHY Paul waited seven days in Troas (until Sunday) to “chow down” with the disciples there. Do you have a plausible explanation? If you read in verse 16 you will note that Paul was in a hurry to get to Jerusalem. Do you still think Paul waited around a week just to eat?

Paul waited a week to have the Lord’s Supper on SUNDAY with the disciples. SUNDAY - the day Christ arose from the dead, the day the church was established in Acts 2, and the day the disciples met to “break bread’ (ei. Lord’s Supper). It was late in the day because people worked every day at that time, including Sunday. It was not a “day off” for these people as it is for us.

Read the passage for what it tells – not for what you want it to say.

There is not ONE – not ONE NT passage that shows the disciples ever – EVER observed the 7th day of the week for any religious purpose. Acts 20:7 shows SUNDAY was the day the discples partook of the Lord’s Supper.

 

[Apollos1]

E1213 –

What’s up?

I asked you to respond to several things in my post to you and you ignored ALL of them.

All I received from you was a long list of questions in post #51 above. Have you no shame?

Here is what I queried you with first:

-Testament/wills can NOT be changed after they go into effect (Galatians 3:15).

- The OLD testament was made with Israel ONLY (Deut. 5:3).

- [The sabbath day] was given to Israel only as a day of rest – Exodus 31:16-17.

- When Jesus died on the cross - as we agreed above - His testament went into effect. His new testament has NO provision for a rest (sabbath) day.

- My prior points on Hebrews 2 (above) show precisely how God interprets His own words. Silence prohibits! If you can show another way to interpret what God says from His word, share that with us here!

-Christ has ALL authority – Matthew 28:18-20.

- The scriptures authorize by command, example, and inference. As yet no one here in this forum has disagreed and no one has attempted to dissect this proposal.

- I believe I am showing from scripture that my approach is the valid approach.

And you want to talk about “pick and choose”??? LOL!

 

[JDIBe]

Our apologies.

Continue....