Sick of the Pollyanna Christians??

[EinsteinsGirl]

The "Pollyanna principle" (also called Pollyannaism or positivity bias) is the tendency for people to remember pleasant items more accurately than unpleasant ones.

I don't know about you folks but I see far too many Pollyanna Gospel Pushers around these forums and in ministry.

They're those who endlessly make fun of Christians who are warning others to get their lives right because God is about to bring judgement on those Christians who are living in compromise. Too many Christians are living a life of carnal pleasure and not living in truth and the light of God.

Too many are refusing to awaken to the fact that we are in the end times and hard times are going to come on North America. We will have famines and earthquakes here in North America and lack of food and war is coming upon us but the Pollyanna Christians say "God will take care of us!"

God will take care of you IF you're OBEDIENT to him!

What if Noah refused to be obedient and build the ark? What if he sat around claiming "God would take care of" his family? They'd have been dead and not survived the flood. They weren't spared the flood. They had to be obedient to get through it.

And if you're living sinfully and you can't hear God for yourself because you don't have a real relationship with him and never learned to exercise the gift of spiritual understanding then how are you going to hear His instructions?

And if you refuse to listen to the warnings of others who CAN hear His instructions and you end up suffering from the war and famine coming, who's fault will that be?
It will be YOUR OWN fault.

So stop making fun of those Christians who do know God and who are storing food and preparing for what is to come because you will look the fool in the years ahead.

 

[Strong in Him]

The "Pollyanna principle" (also called Pollyannaism or positivity bias) is the tendency for people to remember pleasant items more accurately than unpleasant ones.

I don't know about you, but I don't always want to remember unpleasant "items" or experiences. Though it's sometimes necessary so that anything harmful or hurtful can be brought to the Lord for healing. After that, even if we remember, it won't hurt.

They're those who endlessly make fun of Christians who are warning others to get their lives right because God is about to bring judgement on those Christians who are living in compromise.

All Christians need to live holy lives, allowing the Spirit to change us into Jesus' image and likeness. Personally, I don't believe that God uses natural disasters to bring judgement to Christians - that is surely saying that God punishes us for our sins. He doesn't; Jesus took our punishment. God has sent his Spirit who can live in us, correct and convict us of sin and may use anything he wishes to do that. I don't believe that God sends illness, but sometimes he may choose to let someone live with illness in order to teach something or refine a particular aspect of our character.

Too many are refusing to awaken to the fact that we are in the end times

We may be - but my vicar told me around 30 years ago that we were in end times. Anyone who has lived through a war, experienced an earthquake or anything like that, may have thought they were in end times. So what ARE end times and how do we KNOW that we are in them?

God will take care of you IF you're OBEDIENT to him!

If you're implying that Christians who are obeying God and doing his will will not suffer, and God stops caring for Christians who mess up or disobey him in some way; that's incorrect.
Ezekiel was obeying and serving God, and training to be a priest - yet he was sent into exile in Babylon with everyone else who were there because they were being punished by God for their sins. Adam sinned against God in the Garden of Eden and was thrown out, but God still made him a robe from animal skin because he (Adam) was ashamed of his nakedness. He didn't kill Adam and Eve on the spot, they had another son, Seth. Enoch, Methuselah, Noah, Shem and Abraham were descended from Seth.

What if Noah refused to be obedient and build the ark? What if he sat around claiming "God would take care of" his family?

God did take care of his family, but yes; Noah had to have faith to build the ark and the family had to have faith to get inside.

And if you're living sinfully and you can't hear God for yourself because you don't have a real relationship with him and never learned to exercise the gift of spiritual understanding then how are you going to hear His instructions?

God can speak to people who don't know him, and I think, does. Of course they won't know it's God who speaks, they will attribute it to conscience, intuition, fate or something else - but that's where we have the opportunity to say that God speaks today and may be talking to them because he loves them and wants them to know him.

And if you refuse to listen to the warnings of others who CAN hear His instructions and you end up suffering from the war and famine coming, who's fault will that be?
It will be YOUR OWN fault.

Some Christians may not believe that war and famine are coming and that God hasn't told them to stockpile food. They may be walking in the light and in step with the Spirit, but may not have heard God say to them, "gather food because a famine is coming". What then? Are you going to sit in your place of safety judging them for not obeying what God hasn't said to them? Or if a famine does come, are you going to say, "serves you right", instead of maybe trying to help?

So stop making fun of those Christians who do know God and who are storing food and preparing for what is to come because you will look the fool in the years ahead.

No Christian should make fun of another. We have the right to say, either publicly or privately, that these Christians may be wrong; as I did when I heard about Harold Camping predicting a certain day for the Lord's return. But no one should mock someone else for their beliefs.

And I'm not mocking, but I do have a question. Supposing there is a famine coming in the years ahead; some Christians store food to prepare for it and others don't. So those who have stored food survive and carry on living on earth with all its wars, suffering and problems, while those who didn't store food die because they have "disobeyed" God, yet go to heaven to be with him. How does that work, and which of the two scenarios is better?

 

[pdudgeon]

I don't know about you, but I don't always want to remember unpleasant "items" or experiences. Though it's sometimes necessary so that anything harmful or hurtful can be brought to the Lord for healing. After that, even if we remember, it won't hurt.

the reason to remember is so that we can learn from that time, and so that we can also be warned about treating others the way we were treated.

All Christians need to live holy lives, allowing the Spirit to change us into Jesus' image and likeness. Personally, I don't believe that God uses natural disasters to bring judgement to Christians - that is surely saying that God punishes us for our sins. He doesn't; Jesus took our punishment. God has sent his Spirit who can live in us, correct and convict us of sin and may use anything he wishes to do that. I don't believe that God sends illness, but sometimes he may choose to let someone live with illness in order to teach something or refine a particular aspect of our character.

the earth itself revolts as from the effects of sin. among other things this is why we have weeds.
natural disasters do happen. but it is also possible for us to be warned of impending disasters so that we may escape them.

We may be - but my vicar told me around 30 years ago that we were in end times. Anyone who has lived through a war, experienced an earthquake or anything like that, may have thought they were in end times. So what ARE end times and how do we KNOW that we are in them?

if you have ever experienced childbirth or know of someone who has experienced this, ask them about the period of their labor.
Jesus spoke of this time before the end, and that the labor pains of the birthing would come more frequently and be more intense, just as a women who is in labor and in pain.
So we are to look for those signs, but we are also supposed to notice their frequency and duration as comming more often and being stronger or more devistating than before.

this is very easy to see if one studies the weather patterns, or sees reports of increasing apostacy, martyrdom, famine and natural disasters. all of these are increasing rapidly
in both intensity and in duration---just like end stage labor.

If you're implying that Christians who are obeying God and doing his will will not suffer, and God stops caring for Christians who mess up or disobey him in some way; that's incorrect.
Ezekiel was obeying and serving God, and training to be a priest - yet he was sent into exile in Babylon with everyone else who were there because they were being punished by God for their sins. Adam sinned against God in the Garden of Eden and was thrown out, but God still made him a robe from animal skin because he (Adam) was ashamed of his nakedness. He didn't kill Adam and Eve on the spot, they had another son, Seth. Enoch, Methuselah, Noah, Shem and Abraham were descended from Seth.

and someone had to be there with them to record what was happening while they were in exile. The books of the Pentatuch were written by the scribes while they were in exile for the purpose of recording their belief and their history so that it would not be lost. Those books are also a direct refutation of what the Babylonians believed.
Secondly, the exile only lasted for a period so that the Jews could learn from it, not so that they would be destroyed by it.
third, when the time was right God did send a deliverer to them to bring them forth. and while He was doing so,
God also took the Babylonian king to school on who God was.

God did take care of his family, but yes; Noah had to have faith to build the ark and the family had to have faith to get inside.

and just a God saved Noah and his family, and later saved many others (Ruth and Naomi, Rahab, David, etc.) they still had to experience the fruits of their prior decisions.

God can speak to people who don't know him, and I think, does. Of course they won't know it's God who speaks, they will attribute it to conscience, intuition, fate or something else - but that's where we have the opportunity to say that God speaks today and may be talking to them because he loves them and wants them to know him.

agreed. only today what they hear is not as clearly being from God as it was back in biblical times.
that's why it takes someone with discernment to untangle the threads and sort out the truth of God from the lies that they have heard from the world.

and one more thing to remember...there was a time period of about 300 years when God did not speak at all,
and thing got very dark indeed before Jesus came.

Some Christians may not believe that war and famine are coming and that God hasn't told them to stockpile food. They may be walking in the light and in step with the Spirit, but may not have heard God say to them, "gather food because a famine is coming". What then? Are you going to sit in your place of safety judging them for not obeying what God hasn't said to them? Or if a famine does come, are you going to say, "serves you right", instead of maybe trying to help?

the other possibility is that the food gathered and stockpiled might not be for those who stockpiled it!
the overriding truth here is that God provides for us what we need. How He chooses to do that is His concern.

No Christian should make fun of another. We have the right to say, either publicly or privately, that these Christians may be wrong; as I did when I heard about Harold Camping predicting a certain day for the Lord's return. But no one should mock someone else for their beliefs.

agreed. and yet mocking and entrapment happened to Christ and to His disciples in the heart of Jerusalem by those who served God,
so why should we escape such things?
The world and satan are still out there, and there are plenty of people who would love to do his will instead of doing God's will.
Even here we are still surrounded by the enemy who lies in wait for us. Jeremiah 5:26

And I'm not mocking, but I do have a question. Supposing there is a famine coming in the years ahead; some Christians store food to prepare for it and others don't. So those who have stored food survive and carry on living on earth with all its wars, suffering and problems, while those who didn't store food die because they have "disobeyed" God, yet go to heaven to be with him. How does that work, and which of the two scenarios is better?

the same way that it happened to Joseph, his brothers, and to his father.
Joseph had his lesson to be learned, his brothers had their lesson to be learned,
and so did Joseph's father have to learn a lesson on how to raise sons to love one another.

learning how to store food was not their only problem or their only lesson,
and i suspect that the same will hold true if there is another famine to come at some point.
However if God's people are wise, they will learn that lesson before having to go through a famine.

 

[Wgw]

The "Pollyanna principle" (also called Pollyannaism or positivity bias) is the tendency for people to remember pleasant items more accurately than unpleasant ones.

I don't know about you folks but I see far too many Pollyanna Gospel Pushers around these forums and in ministry.

They're those who endlessly make fun of Christians who are warning others to get their lives right because God is about to bring judgement on those Christians who are living in compromise. Too many Christians are living a life of carnal pleasure and not living in truth and the light of God.

If these three paragraphs were the extent of your argument, I would be inclined to agree. I would regard it as a legtitimate critique of the prosperity gospel movement. However, you go on to say this:

The Too many are refusing to awaken to the fact that we are in the end times and hard times are going to come on North America.

To the fact? How can this be regarded as a fact in light of "No man shall know the day or the hour?" And why North America specifically? Surely the eschaton will be a universal event, not constrained to a particular geographical locality.

The We will have famines and earthquakes here in North America and lack of food and war is coming upon us but the Pollyanna Christians say "God will take care of us!"

God will take care of you IF you're OBEDIENT to him!

Disasters have always occurred and will continue; God is love, and will have mercy on who He will have mercy.

The
And if you're living sinfully and you can't hear God for yourself because you don't have a real relationship with him and never learned to exercise the gift of spiritual understanding then how are you going to hear His instructions?

And if you refuse to listen to the warnings of others who CAN hear His instructions and you end up suffering from the war and famine coming, who's fault will that be?
It will be YOUR OWN fault.

This takes us into an area the Russian Orthodox refer to as "Prelest" meaning "spiritual delusion." That is to say, if one does hear such guidance, one should not automatically adhere to it but rather seek to verify it with the proper ecclesiastical authorities. We must have the humility to admit we are nit Noah; in most cases, regrettably, when people have had this sort of experience and accepted it at face value without further discernment, they have been disastrously misled.

So stop making fun of those Christians who do know God and who are storing food and preparing for what is to come because you will look the fool in the years ahead.

Having food reserves and being prepared for emergencies is good. However I do not believe, and many do not believe, that this will matter at the Day of Judgement; in fact, being generous with food and engaging in almsgiving rather than hoarding it in expectation of a future disaster is a very Christian thing to do, and I would suggest such generosity is much more useful and important when one considers the Day of Judgement. Other people matter.

 

[EinsteinsGirl]

Personally, I don't believe that God uses natural disasters to bring judgement to Christians - that is surely saying that God punishes us for our sins. He doesn't; Jesus took our punishment. God has sent his Spirit who can live in us, correct and convict us of sin and may use anything he wishes to do that.

Wow, that's really warped. Have you read the scriptures?

"The words of Amos, who was among the sheepherders from Tekoa, which he [a]envisioned in visions concerning Israel in the days of Uzziah king of Judah, and in the days of Jeroboam son of Joash, king of Israel, two years before the earthquake." Amos 1

Before God sent a drought on Israel, his prophet Elijah announced: “There will occur during these years neither dew nor rain, except at the order of [God’s] word!” 1 Kings 17:1.
This was because Israel was worshipping the false god Baal. Elijah said: “You men have left the commandments of Jehovah, and you went following the Baals”—1 Kings 18:18.

Suggesting that Jesus' death and resurrection means God no longer disciplines us through natural disaster makes nooooo sense at all. Do women still have birth pain? Yes, that punishment and reminder didn't stop after Jesus rose from the dead. God will ALWAYS discipline his children and natural disaster is one of the ways he does it. We have a 'better covenant' but that doesn't mean God isn't the same as He was in the OT.

For the Lord disciplines whom He loves, and He scourges every son whom He receives Heb 12:6

Mal 3:6 says: “I am Jehovah; I have not changed.”

you Christians who think God is only "nice" and think He only speaks sweet-nothings in people's ears are deceived.

The END TIMES began at the precise moment when Israel was restored to it's land in 1948

If you're implying that Christians who are obeying God and doing his will will not suffer, and God stops caring for Christians who mess up or disobey him in some way; that's incorrect.
Ezekiel was obeying and serving God, and training to be a priest - yet he was sent into exile in Babylon with everyone else who were there because they were being punished by God for their sins.

All Christians are called to suffer with Christ. Some suffer because of the sins of others, yes that's correct, but those of us who suffer because of the sins of others are given PEACE in the midst of the storm.... while those who are being punished are not given peace until they repent.
Having PEACE in the storm IS my "ark of refuge" given to me by God.

 

[Wgw]

Wow, that's really warped. Have you read the scriptures?

"The words of Amos, who was among the sheepherders from Tekoa, which he [a]envisioned in visions concerning Israel in the days of Uzziah king of Judah, and in the days of Jeroboam son of Joash, king of Israel, two years before the earthquake." Amos 1

Before God sent a drought on Israel, his prophet Elijah announced: “There will occur during these years neither dew nor rain, except at the order of [God’s] word!” 1 Kings 17:1.
This was because Israel was worshipping the false god Baal. Elijah said: “You men have left the commandments of Jehovah, and you went following the Baals”—1 Kings 18:18.

Suggesting that Jesus' death and resurrection means God no longer disciplines us through natural disaster makes nooooo sense at all. Do women still have birth pain? Yes, that punishment and reminder didn't stop after Jesus rose from the dead. God will ALWAYS discipline his children and natural disaster is one of the ways he does it. We have a 'better covenant' but that doesn't mean God isn't the same as He was in the OT.

For the Lord disciplines whom He loves, and He scourges every son whom He receives Heb 12:6

Mal 3:6 says: “I am Jehovah; I have not changed.”

you Christians who think God is only "nice" and think He only speaks sweet-nothings in people's ears are deceived.

The END TIMES began at the precise moment when Israel was restored to it's land in 1948

All Christians are called to suffer with Christ. Some suffer because of the sins of others, yes that's correct, but those of us who suffer because of the sins of others are given PEACE in the midst of the storm.... while those who are being punished are not given peace until they repent.
Having PEACE in the storm IS my "ark of refuge" given to me by God.

The idea that the end times began in 1948 is controversial and regarded by many well read authorities from right across the whole of Christendom as erroneous.

You are basically accusing anyone who disagrees with this particular eschatology, which seems to contradict Matthew 24:36, as being "Pollyannas," which is very disagreeable. What is more, you are recommending the stockpiling of food for this reason; I believe that if these are the end times we should give out food to the suffering (actually we should do that anyway) rather than hoarde it.

 

[Strong in Him]

Wow, that's really warped. Have you read the scriptures?

You have a different point of view than me, that doesn't mean that I am "really warped."

"The words of Amos, who was among the sheepherders from Tekoa, which he [a]envisioned in visions concerning Israel in the days of Uzziah king of Judah, and in the days of Jeroboam son of Joash, king of Israel, two years before the earthquake." Amos 1

That dates Amos' prophecies to two years before they had an earthquake. It doesn't say that God sent the earthquake because they were disobedient. Even if he had done; that is OT when God used external events to punish and correct his people.

Before God sent a drought on Israel, his prophet Elijah announced: “There will occur during these years neither dew nor rain, except at the order of [God’s] word!” 1 Kings 17:1.
This was because Israel was worshipping the false god Baal.

And Elijah needed to prove to them that the Lord controlled the elements - rain, fire etc and not the "god" Baal - agreed.
It's still OT though.

Suggesting that Jesus' death and resurrection means God no longer disciplines us through natural disaster makes nooooo sense at all.

Jesus died for our sins. He, himself, said that he had come to give his life as a ransom for many, (Mark 10:45) and that his blood would be poured out for the forgiveness of sins, (Matthew 26:28.) Paul said that Christ died for sinners, (Romans 6:8) and that he was made sin for us, (2 Corinthians 5:21.)
Why would Jesus have gone through all that; lived, suffered and died if God was going to say to us; "you've disobeyed me, I'm sending you an earthquake", or "you've messed up again, you're going to have a brain tumour until you can learn to do as you're told."?
That is what doesn't make sense. Did Jesus die for nothing?

Do women still have birth pain?

Some do, some don't.
Some Christian women have difficult, painful births, some non Christians have easy births. Some have Caesarians.
Jesus came to reconcile us to God and save us from eternal death. He did that on the cross, and shouted "it is finished" as he died. The ransom has been paid, we can have forgiveness and peace with God. The pain, or not, suffered in childbirth does not affect or negate that.

God will ALWAYS discipline his children and natural disaster is one of the ways he does it.

God disciplines and corrects his children, but the statement that he does it through a natural disaster is your interpretation. Since Pentecost, we have the Holy Spirit in us who convicts us of sin.

We have a 'better covenant' but that doesn't mean God isn't the same as He was in the OT.

God's nature is unchanging and unchangeable, but he can, and does, do new things and work in new ways.
At Mt. Sinai he gave Moses the law and forgiveness of sins was through animal sacrifices; now forgiveness is through Jesus. Once God "lived" in the ark of the covenant, or the temple; now he can live in our hearts.

you Christians who think God is only "nice" and think He only speaks sweet-nothings in people's ears are deceived.

I did not say that God is "nice" and speaks sweet nothings in people's ears. Maybe you could take the trouble to find out what I did say before you insult me.

The END TIMES began at the precise moment when Israel was restored to it's land in 1948.

That seems to be a matter of opinion/interpretation.
I thought that end times refers to the period of time leading up to our Lord's return. If it does, then they started after the resurrection. The apostles all expected Jesus to return in their lifetime, and people have thought the same ever since.

 

[Tangible]

I've got your non-pollyanna Christianity right here.

In this video, get to know the St. Louis-based Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod, a biblical, confessional, witness-oriented Christian denomination with 2.2 million members in 6,200 congregations in the U.S. and Canada. Through acts of witness and mercy, the church carries out its mission worldwide to make known the love of Jesus Christ.

 

[EinsteinsGirl]

You have a different point of view than me, that doesn't mean that I am "really warped."

Correction: I did no say YOU are warped. I said your belief is warped. you should not misquote people like that, it makes you look dishonest and manipulative.

That dates Amos' prophecies to two years before they had an earthquake. It doesn't say that God sent the earthquake because they were disobedient. Even if he had done; that is OT when God used external events to punish and correct his people.

Prophetic words often take years to come to pass. The text shows God sent the earthquake as punishment, AND God does not change - He STILL disciplines His kids today using natural disaster, sickness, etc.
In the book of ACTS God blinded a man through Paul.

And Elijah needed to prove to them that the Lord controlled the elements - rain, fire etc and not the "god" Baal - agreed.
It's still OT though.

As previously explained, GOD DOES NOT CHANGE -- What He did in the OT He still does today. You cannot claim that the OT doesn't count or isn't applicable today, that's utter nonsense. The only change is that we have a better COVENANT and final sacrifice in Jesus.

Jesus died for our sins. He, himself, said that he had come to give his life as a ransom for many, (Mark 10:45) and that his blood would be poured out for the forgiveness of sins, (Matthew 26:28.) Paul said that Christ died for sinners, (Romans 6:8) and that he was made sin for us, (2 Corinthians 5:21.)
Why would Jesus have gone through all that; lived, suffered and died if God was going to say to us; "you've disobeyed me, I'm sending you an earthquake", or "you've messed up again, you're going to have a brain tumour until you can learn to do as you're told."?
That is what doesn't make sense. Did Jesus die for nothing?

Jesus died for the forgiveness of sin and for healing and to send us the Holy Spirit so we can learn to overcome and live victorious JUST AS HE LIVED -- he was our example to follow to show us how it's done, His death & resurrection was not provided as a license to sin and claim that God is ok with you continuing to do whatever you want... And it certainly does NOT mean God no longer disciplines His children when they disobey - That is absolutely unscriptural carnage. He does discipline - He disciplines in all manner of ways when His kids refuse to listen, including natural disasters and sickness. That doesn't mean ALL sickness or disaster comes from God, but a lot of it does. You should watch some JOHNATHAN CAHN videos explaining the judgement and harbingers which have been increasing on America starting with 9/11. God used a wicked nation to discipline His kids in times past and He is doing it again today.
Johnathan Cahn discovered that the day America became a fully constituted nation, the words used by George Washington, the nation's first president with his hand placed on the bible were these:
"The propitious smiles of heaven can never be expected on a nation that disregards the eternal rules of order and right which heaven itself has ordained"
The president & congress then walked to a certain spot in New York to pray and consecrate America --- that spot was exactly where ground zero is today. The spot of the twin towers is where America was dedicated to God.. the very place where judgement began on 911. The capital then was not Washington DC, it was New York City. It was later changed to Washington. -- God brought judgement on America on 911 at the very spot where American founders declared allegiance to God... and then broke it.

Some Christian women have difficult, painful births, some non Christians have easy births. Some have Caesarians.
Jesus came to reconcile us to God and save us from eternal death. He did that on the cross, and shouted "it is finished" as he died. The ransom has been paid, we can have forgiveness and peace with God. The pain, or not, suffered in childbirth does not affect or negate that.

You completely missed the point, it went right over your head. :/

God disciplines and corrects his children, but the statement that he does it through a natural disaster is your interpretation. Since Pentecost, we have the Holy Spirit in us who convicts us of sin.

And when Christians REFUSE to listen to the conviction of the Holy Spirit and continue to ignore His promptings and refuse to be obedient, God steps in to discipline. Discipline is not pleasant - it is PAINFUL as stated below:
"No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it." Heb 12:11

I've got your non-pollyanna Christianity right here..

For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. (2 Tim 4:3)

 

[Wgw]

Correction: I did no say YOU are warped. I said your belief is warped. you should not misquote people like that, it makes you look dishonest and manipulative.


Prophetic words often take years to come to pass. The text shows God sent the earthquake as punishment, AND God does not change - He STILL disciplines His kids today using natural disaster, sickness, etc.
In the book of ACTS God blinded a man through Paul.


As previously explained, GOD DOES NOT CHANGE -- What He did in the OT He still does today. You cannot claim that the OT doesn't count or isn't applicable today, that's utter nonsense. The only change is that we have a better COVENANT and final sacrifice in Jesus.


Jesus died for the forgiveness of sin and for healing and to send us the Holy Spirit so we can learn to overcome and live victorious JUST AS HE LIVED -- he was our example to follow to show us how it's done, His death & resurrection was not provided as a license to sin and claim that God is ok with you continuing to do whatever you want... And it certainly does NOT mean God no longer disciplines His children when they disobey - That is absolutely unscriptural carnage. He does discipline - He disciplines in all manner of ways when His kids refuse to listen, including natural disasters and sickness. That doesn't mean ALL sickness or disaster comes from God, but a lot of it does. You should watch some JOHNATHAN CAHN videos explaining the judgement and harbingers which have been increasing on America starting with 9/11. God used a wicked nation to discipline His kids in times past and He is doing it again today.
Johnathan Cahn discovered that the day America became a fully constituted nation, the words used by George Washington, the nation's first president with his hand placed on the bible were these:
"The propitious smiles of heaven can never be expected on a nation that disregards the eternal rules of order and right which heaven itself has ordained"
The president & congress then walked to a certain spot in New York to pray and consecrate America --- that spot was exactly where ground zero is today. The spot of the twin towers is where America was dedicated to God.. the very place where judgement began on 911. The capital then was not Washington DC, it was New York City. It was later changed to Washington. -- God brought judgement on America on 911 at the very spot where American founders declared allegiance to God... and then broke it.

You completely missed the point, it went right over your head. :/

And when Christians REFUSE to listen to the conviction of the Holy Spirit and continue to ignore His promptings and refuse to be obedient, God steps in to discipline. Discipline is not pleasant - it is PAINFUL as stated below:
"No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it." Heb 12:11


For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. (2 Tim 4:3)

You are correct in referring to divine immutability, however, I cannot accept your view attributing an eschatological signifigance to 9/11.

 

[Strong in Him]

Correction: I did no say YOU are warped. I said your belief is warped. you should not misquote people like that, it makes you look dishonest and manipulative.

My feeling was that if you believe my views and/or theology are warped then that implies that I am warped in some way - my thinking is not correct, which says to me that there is something wrong with my mind. I accept that may not have been what you meant at all.

And yet later you quoted something I said, and then said that "you Christians who believe that God is "nice" and whispers sweet nothings in your ears, are deceived." This is not what I think and not what I said.
If I misunderstood and misquoted what you said, you are right to pull me up on it. But don't then go and do the same thing yourself!

Prophetic words often take years to come to pass. The text shows God sent the earthquake as punishment, AND God does not change

I agreed with you that God does not change - but often the way he works, does. And when Jesus, his Son, the spotless lamb of God, was born; when God himself walked and lived on earth and Jesus died for our sins, to take "the punishment that bought us peace" (Isaiah 53:5) - everything changed. He brought in, confirmed, delivered and sealed the NEW Covenant prophesied by Jeremiah; (Jeremiah 31:31-34; Matthew 26:28.)

I don't believe that a person who has been born again, who trusts in Jesus for salvation, who trusts God's words that "if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and cleanses us from all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:9) and who has the Holy Spirit living in them whose job it is to convict of sin, will ever hear God say, "you've messed up again; here's a headache/brain tumour/cancer to teach you a lesson", and I can't think of a Scripture which teaches that.
Christians still get ill because we live in a fallen world. We may ask, or even plead with, God for healing and find that God delays in answering that prayer in order to test our faith, or patience. I believe that was the case with me when I got M.E, which I had for 18 years. But that illness was NOT a punishment from God. He taught me lots of things through it, but after 18 years he took it away again - and yet sometimes I still sin and mess up.

I do agree that God can discipline us; I don't believe that he does it through illness, because that would mean that Jesus died for nothing.

As previously explained, GOD DOES NOT CHANGE --

As previously explained - his NATURE does not change; the ways in which he works, may do. He even said to Isaiah, "see I am doing a NEW thing!" (Isaiah 43:19.)

You cannot claim that the OT doesn't count or isn't applicable today, that's utter nonsense.

I didn't claim any such thing - you are now doing what you reprimanded me for doing!

The only change is that we have a better COVENANT and final sacrifice in Jesus.

So one minute you are insisting that God does not change; the next you are conceding that the NEW covenant was a change!
God's nature does not, has not and will not change - he is still holy, pure, love, and so on. The things he does and ways he works sometimes do change, hence the NEW covenant we have in Jesus.

Jesus died for the forgiveness of sin and for healing and to send us the Holy Spirit so we can learn to overcome and live victorious JUST AS HE LIVED -- he was our example to follow to show us how it's done, His death & resurrection was not provided as a license to sin and claim that God is ok with you continuing to do whatever you want... And it certainly does NOT mean God no longer disciplines His children when they disobey - That is absolutely unscriptural carnage.

I didn't say that God never disciplines his children, I said that I don't believe that he disciplines - or punishes - us by sending illness, earthquakes, famine and so on.

You should watch some JOHNATHAN CAHN videos explaining the judgement and harbingers which have been increasing on America starting with 9/11. God used a wicked nation to discipline His kids in times past and He is doing it again today.

Firstly, I think that's still a matter of interpretation.
Secondly, I think we may be talking about two different things. I am agreeing that God can discipline his children; those who belong to him. The Holy Spirit is working in us to change us into Jesus' image and likeness, (2 Corinthians 3:18). Some of the work that he does will be painful, may involve giving things up and may also involve correction. Paul says that Scripture is also useful for correction - meaning that our thoughts and attitudes can be challenged and changed by the word of God, (2 Timothy 3:16; Hebrews 4:12.) The Holy Spirit of God, and the word of God challenge, correct and rebuke his children so that we can be more like him.
It is possible that God may use natural disasters/illness to get the attention of NON Christians; those who are ignoring, mocking or disobeying God. That doesn't always work, and I have heard of non Christians who become so bitter because of the physical hardships they suffer, that it just confirms to them that there is no God. If God sent a natural disaster to discipline a non Christian and make them turn to him, I am pretty sure he would make sure that it worked.

Johnathan Cahn discovered that the day America became a fully constituted nation, the words used by George Washington, the nation's first president with his hand placed on the bible were these:
"The propitious smiles of heaven can never be expected on a nation that disregards the eternal rules of order and right which heaven itself has ordained"
The president & congress then walked to a certain spot in New York to pray and consecrate America --- that spot was exactly where ground zero is today. The spot of the twin towers is where America was dedicated to God.. the very place where judgement began on 911. The capital then was not Washington DC, it was New York City. It was later changed to Washington. -- God brought judgement on America on 911 at the very spot where American founders declared allegiance to God... and then broke it.

I've no idea who Johnathan Cahn is, I'm talking about Scriptural teaching and examples.
If you want to believe that there is some significance in ground zero being the same spot where the President had previously consecrated America - go ahead. That doesn't PROVE that God is sending disasters and tragedies to discipline all American Christians.

You completely missed the point, it went right over your head. :/

So I missed the point; are you going to explain it?

 

[Crowns&Laurels]

I think it's a good idea, just as a principle, to have an emergency storage of food, clothes, and survival items. Even if it's super basic or wouldn't last too long.
Because nobody expects a catastrophe. If they did, then all that we've ever had would've gone a good bit smoother. A person can laugh at doomsday preppers, but they've always existed, and they're the one's who got the last laugh when the sky fell so..

 

[ewq1938]

Having food reserves and being prepared for emergencies is good. However I do not believe, and many do not believe, that this will matter at the Day of Judgement; in fact, being generous with food and engaging in almsgiving rather than hoarding it in expectation of a future disaster is a very Christian thing to do, and I would suggest such generosity is much more useful and important when one considers the Day of Judgement. Other people matter.

Did Noah share the food and supplies he had stored in the Ark with those not allowed to enter it?

 

[Strong in Him]

Did Noah share the food and supplies he had stored in the Ark?

With his family, yes. With everyone who died in the flood; no need.

 

[Gnarwhal]

Correction: I did no say YOU are warped. I said your belief is warped. you should not misquote people like that, it makes you look dishonest and manipulative.

You're still resorting to ad hominems by leveling accusations against @Strong in Him such as the above.

Prophetic words often take years to come to pass. The text shows God sent the earthquake as punishment, AND God does not change - He STILL disciplines His kids today using natural disaster, sickness, etc.
In the book of ACTS God blinded a man through Paul.

Right. God does not change. However, humanity changes. The Earth changes. God's intervention in human history through Christ fundamentally changed humanity's relationship to God because his son is freely available as he actively redeems and restores creation. Death, destruction, fire and brimstone is no longer the tool by which God reveals his power to us. It's through the love, humility, sacrifice, and ultimate resurrection of the second person of the Holy Trinity - His Son.

As previously explained, GOD DOES NOT CHANGE -- What He did in the OT He still does today. You cannot claim that the OT doesn't count or isn't applicable today, that's utter nonsense. The only change is that we have a better COVENANT and final sacrifice in Jesus.

See above. What's utter nonsense is the idea that God is presently distributing death and judgment on any nation or people group in the Church Age. It undermines the essence of the crucifixion and resurrection.

Jesus died for the forgiveness of sin and for healing and to send us the Holy Spirit so we can learn to overcome and live victorious JUST AS HE LIVED -- he was our example to follow to show us how it's done, His death & resurrection was not provided as a license to sin and claim that God is ok with you continuing to do whatever you want... And it certainly does NOT mean God no longer disciplines His children when they disobey - That is absolutely unscriptural carnage. He does discipline - He disciplines in all manner of ways when His kids refuse to listen, including natural disasters and sickness. That doesn't mean ALL sickness or disaster comes from God, but a lot of it does.

Yes, Christ died to redeem all of creation including humanity who was the chief cause of that rupture. God does discipline, but asserting that he does so through natural disasters, viral outbreaks or some other socially devastating means is absurd.

You should watch some JOHNATHAN CAHN videos explaining the judgement and harbingers which have been increasing on America starting with 9/11.

If you're deriving your theology and your worldview from a series of YouTube videos from someone with very little credibility such as this Messianic Pastor, then you've most certainly lost the plot.

God used a wicked nation to discipline His kids in times past and He is doing it again today.
Johnathan Cahn discovered that the day America became a fully constituted nation, the words used by George Washington, the nation's first president with his hand placed on the bible were these:
"The propitious smiles of heaven can never be expected on a nation that disregards the eternal rules of order and right which heaven itself has ordained"
The president & congress then walked to a certain spot in New York to pray and consecrate America --- that spot was exactly where ground zero is today. The spot of the twin towers is where America was dedicated to God.. the very place where judgement began on 911. The capital then was not Washington DC, it was New York City. It was later changed to Washington. -- God brought judgement on America on 911 at the very spot where American founders declared allegiance to God... and then broke it.

Source? Because technically Federal Hall was on Wall Street near Nassau Street, roughly a half-mile away from Ground Zero and One World Trade Center.

And when Christians REFUSE to listen to the conviction of the Holy Spirit and continue to ignore His promptings and refuse to be obedient, God steps in to discipline. Discipline is not pleasant - it is PAINFUL as stated below:
"No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it." Heb 12:11

For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. (2 Tim 4:3)

Conviction of the Holy Spirit according to who? Bill Johnson? This Jonathan Cahn guy? Because Bill Johnson's teachings hold no weight for anyone who affirms the historic and orthodox Christian faith that's confessed in the Nicene Creed, and from the looks of things this Cahn fellow is no different.

I'm very familiar with people who wrap themselves in display of piety by proclaiming they—in their obscure, minority views—have a prophetic message for the rest of Christianity. Yet 10/10 times it doesn't align with historic Christian teachings. Thankfully, most of Christianity remains faithful to the teachings of Christ and it's only the fringe believers who have disconnected themselves from that continuum who come charging in believing they can spark a new Reformation and bring a stop to perceived judgment and condemnation on the world.

 

[Wgw]

Did Noah share the food and supplies he had stored in the Ark with those not allowed to enter it?

Are you seriously attempting to use the case of Noah to arue that Christians should not feed the hungry?

If so, see Matthew 25:40-45

 

[ewq1938]

With his family, yes. With everyone who died in the flood; no need.

Do you agree with what the poster said in the quote about not saving food and supplies for a future disaster but sharing it with anyone that may need it? What would have happened had Noah done what WGW suggests?

 

[ewq1938]

You're still resorting to ad hominems by leveling accusations against @Strong in Him such as the above.

Comments on someone's beliefs is not an ad hominem.

An ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is an attack on an argument made by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, rather than attacking the argument directly.

In this case the belief or argument the person is using was called warped, not the person themselves.

 

[ewq1938]

Are you seriously attempting to use the case of Noah to arue that Christians should not feed the hungry?

If so, see Matthew 25:40-45

Obvious not. What I am saying is food and supplies set aside for an emergency for your family should not be shared as was suggested by WGW.

Feeding the hungry should be done from non-emergency supplies. That is a completely different concept than preparing for an emergency such as a flood.

 

[Wgw]

Do you agree with what the poster said in the quote about not saving food and supplies for a future disaster but sharing it with anyone that may need it? What would have happened had Noah done what WGW suggests?

If in fact all of the antedilluvian people had been as generous as our Lord commands in the Gospel, then He would surely not have felt the need to eradicate them.