Should one look everywhere, or just within Christianity?

[aiki]

I think that as far as designers go, I agree that knowing how something is made doesn't preclude a designer.
Right now I'm of the position that there is nothing we have so far discovered in the universe that requires an external designer. I started out with a God of the gaps view, but now I feel that all the gaps are closing. That doesn't mean there isn't a designer, but that so far we don't require one to explain the observable universe.
I'd like to follow up know the brain is not the mind comment. I'm not sure what you mean by that.

Well, how does naturalism account for the fact that there is a universe at all? We know, furthermore, that it began to exist a finite time ago in the past, so it contradicts well-established fact to say the universe has just always existed. But anything that begins to exist has to have been caused. Things don't just appear, uncaused, out of nothing. But this brings us to the First Cause of the universe, the Designer of it, if you will.

Dr. J.P. Moreland has written extensively on the philosophy of Mind and has very formidable arguments against the idea that the brain and the mind are one and the same thing, which is what naturalists are keen to assert. For a very accessible version of his arguments for Mind-Body Dualism (though a rather older version, now) read his book "Scaling the Secular City." Delineating the biochemical and neurological events of the brain as a person thinks and experiences reality does not eradicate the existence of Mind. A neurologist may map the activity of my brain as I smell popcorn but he has no idea of the content of my thoughts as I do unless I tell him.

Selah.

 

[GracielaAlexandraa]

Bit of background, I was raised Catholic but began doubting when I was about 7...around the same time I began doubting in Santa Claus. Since then, and that was a long time ago...I have studied, prayes, read the Bible, etc..and at best am still agnostic.
So my question is do I keep looking for God, or anything supernatural, for that matter, solely withinthe limits of Christianity, branch out and include study and worship of a non Christian nature, such as paganism, or just hold at agnostic. Thoughts?[/QUOTE

Can I ask what started making you doubt?

 

[Mountain_Girl406]

Well, how does naturalism account for the fact that there is a universe at all? We know, furthermore, that it began to exist a finite time in the past, so it contradicts well-established fact to say the universe has just always existed. But anything that begins to exist has to have been caused. Things don't just appear, uncaused, out of nothing. But this brings us to the First Cause of the universe, the Designer of it, if you will.

Dr. J.P. Moreland has written extensively on the philosophy of Mind and has very formidable arguments against the idea that the brain and the mind are one and the same thing, which is what naturalists are keen to assert. For a very accessible version of his arguments for Mind-Body Dualism (though a rather older version, now) read his book "Scaling the Secular City." Delineating the biochemical and neurological events of the brain as a person thinks and experiences reality does not eradicate the existence of Mind. A neurologist may map the activity of my brain as I smell popcorn but he has no idea of the content of my thoughts as I do unless I tell him.

Selah.

That's a good question. I'm not sure if it's settled thought that the universe had a beginning. The universe existed before the big bang, just in a more compact form. Everything was there though.
Then we've got theories that the universe has cycled through many incarnations and theories of multiverses.
There is also the idea that the universe itself is somehow conscious, e.g. God is the universe, not outside of it.
As to the mind and the brain, I agree that right now we can't map out precise thoughts, but is that because it's impossible or simply because we just don't yet know how?
I will check out Scaling the Secular City, though

 

[Mountain_Girl406]

Can I ask what started making you doubt?

Nothing specific, I just started wondering if God was real or not. It may have been an age thing, I was also beginning to doubt Santa Claus. As a very young kid, Santa seemed like the most plausible explanation of where presents came from, and there was evidence, but as I got older I realized there was better evidence to support the theory that presents came from family and friends.

 

[com7fy8]

I understand this starling is holding on to the icicle in order to catch drops of drinking water.

Jesus says “look up”, in Luke 21:28 >

“‘And when you see these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.’” (Luke 21:28)

But I would say that we need to always be looking up, to get all God has for us, of His grace coming. But, “of course”, with God we can be getting abundance . . . not just drops here and there . . . but rivers (John 7:37-39) of living and loving water of God’s grace. Jesus Himself is interceding for us, according to His faith >

“Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.” (Romans 8:34)

So, we should always be looking up and stay uplifted for all that Jesus is ministering to us.

In this cold and freezing world, this starling knows it can find drops of pure water.

@Mountain_Girl406 This is quite an engineering feat, how God has made this starling able to seek and find water in the winter, to be able to know to find it here and to hold on to icicles while looking up to catch the drops of drinking water. We can use this world’s cold structures, yes, for God’s love purpose for ourselves and others

This starling has ability to seek and find. Jesus says, “seek, and you will find”, in Matthew 7:7 >

“‘Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.’” (Matthew 7:7)

I see that this starling keeps on seeking and finding. And I consider that God has designed us so we have a need to seek and find; emotionally, in our make-up, we need this > to be seeking God so we are finding all He has for us, in us and in our practical lives . . . to always be seeking Him, sensing and feeling for how He guides us “continually” (Isaiah 58:11).

Therefore, for us in Jesus, this does not mean to be thinking up dreams that we want to come true, then focusing on getting what we want. But we need to focus ^up^ for the income of God’s grace with His personal guiding in us >

Discover what God has us doing, in the ruling of His peace >

“And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful.” (Colossians 3:15)

I experience, that if I am to be ruled by God in His own peace, all the time I do well to stay prayerful, sensing for how God has me become in His peace, and discovering how He communicates with me personally, but while He is personally taking me along > not only telling me what to do, or just explaining some details, but personally working and guiding me all along >

“for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.” (Philippians 2:13)

“Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus. To this end I also labor, striving according to His working which works in me mightily.” (Colossians 1:28-29)

So, in us God is working to His end, of having His dream fulfilled: how we become like His own Son Jesus . . . so pleasing to Him - - - delighting to You . . . O God our Father . . . like Your own Son Jesus is so sweetly pleasing to You >

“rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God.” (1 Peter 3:4)

“Therefore”, so many things attack our quiet so we fear going into quiet rest with our Heavenly Father.

Haven’t you noticed how when you start to get quiet, right then is when you can be attacked and violated by boredom and loneliness?? And fears and worries and memories with hurts can come, and we can get into unforgiveness and frustration and depression so we don’t dare to become quiet; and yet quiet can be where we are in personal and sensitive sharing with God. So we need to win this battle for our attention. And God is able to do this in us.

And there are those drives for pleasure which can possess and dominate us, dictating that we seek pleasures and excitements . . . instead of resting in the LORD. It is Satan who works to devour us with negative and nasty and naughty things and thinking with stinking, and to dominate us with dictatorial drives which are not in God’s gentle and humble and nicely quiet love; lust is not a God-given “drive” > love has us first about tenderly and affectionately caring for and sharing with one another, not only using anyone.

“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.” (1 Peter 5:8)

Trust God to win this battle against the cold and the old. He is able to bring us into . . . to correct us (Hebrews 12:4-11) into . . . and cure us in His own love’s “incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit” so in our own nature we are preciously pleasing to Him We thank You, God, for this; we offer ourselves to You and thank You for the intercession of Jesus providing this, and how this comes through our prayer and example to each other!!!

Yes, we help one another. You who live in God’s love have greatly helped me with your example.

You may not be Bible experts or ordained, but your example can spread how Jesus is, to feed me and others. I have been perhaps very Bible smart, but so love stupid; but ones have shown me how to be and how to relate, and God wins ! ! !

He works and He succeeds.

And we do this not on our lonesome . . .

but as family > > >

 

[com7fy8]

growing together >

We are not all alike, but we all have the same love sap
flowing through us to one another.

How we really are in us can spread to make our children the same way; and how we are deeply can spread to help to make anyone else the way we are becoming.

So, it is important to be good examples in the sight of God In prayer, become the way others need to be; and do in prayer, ourselves, what others need to do, and this can spread to help even the most impossible people ! ! ! I do not need to only try to change other people and make them do what I am sure they need to do; but in prayer do, myself, what others need to do

And “Rest in the LORD and wait patiently for Him” (in Psalm 37:7).

And trust how He will use our good example, while we minister His own grace to one another >

“Be hospitable to one another without grumbling. As each one has received a gift, minister it to one another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.” (1 Peter 4:9-10)

I understand and offer that God’s grace includes the action of His own love in us, making us more and more how Jesus is pleasing to our Father while caring for any and all people like He did on the cross.

“And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma.” (Ephesians 5:2)

So, our focus needs to be here . . . not only to controlling people and things for what we want, not only giving our attention to judging and trying to control politicians and defending ourselves against enemies. But may we become more and more attentive to You, our Father, and how You do all You please with us, in the ruling of Your peace We thank You and glorify You, in the name of Jesus Your Son; amen

“nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock.” (1 Peter 5:3)

 

[aiki]

That's a good question. I'm not sure if it's settled thought that the universe had a beginning. The universe existed before the big bang, just in a more compact form. Everything was there though.

That's not what I understand of the initial singularity from which all the universe arose. Mathematical physicists talk of an infinitely dense point from which the universe came but that point is not an actual physical thing; it is a mathematical idealization not a real physical state of affairs. Inasmuch as this is so, it is appropriate to say that the universe popped into being out of nothing. But, even if you did start with a real, physical, infinitely dense singularity, you'd still have to explain where it came from.

Then we've got theories that the universe has cycled through many incarnations and theories of multiverses.

And they have all dissolved under deeper scrutiny and the advance of science. The multiverse theory, too, while currently popular in the sci-fi world, actually has no concrete basis in fact. It remains simply an unsubstantiated theory.

There is also the idea that the universe itself is somehow conscious, e.g. God is the universe, not outside of it.

Well, this makes God a rather limited, contingent thing and, therefore, not God at all. It also prevents God from being the Creator of the universe. As part of the universe (or, rather, the universe itself) God would have to have been limited to the physical boundaries of space, time, energy and matter, coming into being when the universe did. But this means God could not have created the universe. To do so would be to create Himself, which is nonsense. Such a God would be totally vulnerable to Dawkins' question: Who created God? We would end up having to posit a transcendent, timeless Creator of the universe like the One described in the Bible. Also, there is no evidence that I'm aware of that indicates the universe is sentient.

As to the mind and the brain, I agree that right now we can't map out precise thoughts, but is that because it's impossible or simply because we just don't yet know how?

A thought, a memory, emotions - these can be associated with neurological events in the brain, but those events cannot accurately and fully describe the content of the thoughts, memories or emotions that a person experiences in their mind. Such things are non-physical and as such beyond the realm of science, which is occupied with observing only the material universe.

Selah.

 

[stevevw]

I think that gets to the issue...I have been searching for God, i.e. God as believed by Christians. Since my search so far hasn't been successful, is it time to also consider the possibility of other gods, or a god of a completely different nature (like the universe as god as, opposed to an individual god).

It is good to search other religions and learn about the variety of views out there. Look everywhere and dont be afraid to look in places that may challenge you beliefs or ideas about what is suppose to be. Sometimes we have to do that to get all the unanswered questions out of our system. Sometimes we have to go through that so we can arrive at a place that God can reach us. Sometimes its finding out what is not the right path rather than finding the right one. So long as you are looking and your heart has a true intention of finding God then it will come. It isn't in some world view of what we are suppose to be like or in how good we are. Its a personal thing and a state of the heart between you and God.

 

[Neogaia777]

What religion professes a man claiming to be God, performing miracles, gave exquisitely wise teaching, and then died, and rose again proving his authority over death, and showing us a piece of the afterlife?

God Bless!