Should I join the Mormon Church?

[Aibrean]

Here I will contradict straight from the LDS website (in quotes).

"In this vision God the Father and His Son, Jesus Christ, appeared to Joseph Smith. The Savior told Joseph not to join any of the churches, for they “were all wrong.”

Churches that follow "sola scriptura" are wrong?

We must be baptized to become members of the restored Church—The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints—and to eventually enter the kingdom of heaven.

That would mean that baptism is required for salvation. We are saved by faith not works. Baptism is important, it is a command yes, but it isn't required for salvation. Necessary, but not absolutely necessary.

Ephesians 2:7-9


7in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.



Mormons as written on their LDS website, claim The Pearl of Great Price?, a selection of revelations, translations, and writings of Joseph Smith AS scripture

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints recognizes the following books as scripture:

• The Bible?, a collection of sacred writings containing God’s revelations and accounts of His dealings with His children and testifying of Jesus Christ. The historical accounts in the Bible cover many centuries, from the time of Adam through the death of the Apostles?. The books of the Bible were written by and about prophets who lived at various times in the history of the world.
• The Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ?, a record of God’s dealings with the inhabitants of ancient America.
• The Doctrine and Covenants?, a collection of revelations and inspired declarations given for the establishment and regulation of the Church of Jesus Christ in the last days.
• The Pearl of Great Price?, a selection of revelations, translations, and writings of Joseph Smith.

All good people can feel the influence of the Holy Ghost

Jesus died for everyone, both good and bad. To say only good people can feel the influence is a bit contradictory to that and a very uneducated and generalized statement. What determines how "good" a person is? That would be works driven and again as I said before, we are saved by faith not works. Everyone is a sinner, there is no line between "good" and "bad" people.

Under the direction of your Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ created the earth

From a commentary: http://www.biblebasicsonline.com/english/Study07OriginofJesus/D24DidJesusCreateEarth.html
summary is: If this were true, then so many other passages are contradicted which teach that Jesus did not exist before his birth. The record in Genesis clearly teaches that God was the creator. Either Jesus or God were the creator; if we say that Jesus was the creator while Genesis says that God was, we are saying that Jesus was directly equal to God. In this case it is impossible to explain the many verses which show the differences between God and Jesus.

 

[Albion]

Its funny, cause the Book of Mormon always touched my heart. It straight on with repentance in Christ and Jesus Christ being the only way to be saved....and they do believe Jesus is the Christ...They are Christians

Have you ever considered if it is possible to be saved by belief in someone other than Christ, providing only that you call that other person by the name Jesus Christ?

The Book of Mormon tells tales about Jesus which are unknown in the Bible and everywhere else, attribute to him teachings he is not otherwise known to have made, and says that he did things we have no reason to think he did. So is this Christ...or an invention with the label "Christ" attached to it?

 

[Aibrean]

From WELS Q&A:

Even when we hear what may sound like Christian confessions from the mouths of those who belong to the Mormon church, we must remember that they have changed the biblical definitions of many words. While we will be listening with "biblical ears" to what they are saying, they may in fact be saying something quite different from Scripture even when it sounds good at first. For instance, they believe that Jesus was just a man like us who became God and that by following his example, we too can become gods just like him. Therefore, when a Mormon says that "Jesus is my Savior", that may mean something utterly different from what Scripture teaches about Jesus. That is the devilish thing about the errors which the Mormon church has communicated to its people.

Mormon passage:

"Redemption from personal sins can only be obtained through obedience to the requirements of the gospel, and a life of good works" (Articles of Faith, p 478).

As from WELS (and my personal stance) Works are not a part of faith, they are a result of faith. Good works do not contribute anything to our forgiveness. We do them not to be forgiven but because we have been forgiven.

LDS website:

Through the Atonement—performed by Jesus Christ with His suffering in the Garden of Gethsemane and by His suffering and the voluntary surrender of His life on the cross–He saves you from your sins as you sincerely repent and follow Him.

WELS response: Mormonism teaches that the atonement that Christ achieved for us was achieved primarily, not by his death on the cross, but primarily by his suffering in Gethsemane. It limits the salvation which Christ achieved for us to a general salvation, which is freedom from Adam’s guilt and the right to a resurrection. The salvation Christ won for us does not include individual salvation or exaltation to godhood. This conditional salvation must be won by us by full obedience to celestial law. Mormonism emphatically condemns the belief that our entire salvation has been won by Christ’s death on the cross. Mormonism, therefore, is not Christian in the biblical sense of the term. Mormonism itself recognizes this when it condemns traditional churches as apostate.

 

[Albion]

From WELS Q&A:

Even when we hear what may sound like Christian confessions from the mouths of those who belong to the Mormon church, we must remember that they have changed the biblical definitions of many words. While we will be listening with "biblical ears" to what they are saying, they may in fact be saying something quite different from Scripture even when it sounds good at first. For instance, they believe that Jesus was just a man like us who became God and that by following his example, we too can become gods just like him. Therefore, when a Mormon says that "Jesus is my Savior", that may mean something utterly different from what Scripture teaches about Jesus. That is the devilish thing about the errors which the Mormon church has communicated to its people.

Mormon passage:
As from WELS (and my personal stance) Works are not a part of faith, they are a result of faith. Good works do not contribute anything to our forgiveness. We do them not to be forgiven but because we have been forgiven.

LDS website:

WELS response: Mormonism teaches that the atonement that Christ achieved for us was achieved primarily, not by his death on the cross, but primarily by his suffering in Gethsemane. It limits the salvation which Christ achieved for us to a general salvation, which is freedom from Adam’s guilt and the right to a resurrection. The salvation Christ won for us does not include individual salvation or exaltation to godhood. This conditional salvation must be won by us by full obedience to celestial law. Mormonism emphatically condemns the belief that our entire salvation has been won by Christ’s death on the cross. Mormonism, therefore, is not Christian in the biblical sense of the term. Mormonism itself recognizes this when it condemns traditional churches as apostate.

IMO, a lot of that observes a difference beween Christian denominations or types of Christians. The discussion of works vs. faith is an example. As such it misses the bigger point, i.e. can Mormons accurately be termed Christian?

It's not a question of whether they are orthodox Christians, normative Christians, non-heretical Christians, or good Christians...but whether or not they are actually believers in Christ.

 

[Renton405]

Have you ever considered if it is possible to be saved by belief in someone other than Christ, providing only that you call that other person by the name Jesus Christ?

The Book of Mormon tells tales about Jesus which are unknown in the Bible and everywhere else, attribute to him teachings he is not otherwise known to have made, and says that he did things we have no reason to think he did. So is this Christ...or an invention with the label "Christ" attached to it?

Well considering they believe the Jesus of the Bible yes... Whether the BOM is true is up in the air. But saying they worship another Christ is incorrect since they believe in the gospel and the crucifiction..And God does continue to work miracles, it didn't just stop with the apostles. Look at all the miracles that have happened in the Catholic CHurch like Fatima and St. Mary at Zeitun, Caioro, Egypt..http://www.apparitions.org/zeitun.html http://members.aol.com/bjw1106/marian7.htm

Churches that follow "sola scriptura" are wrong?

In general , yes, because they have no authority to go to to help them interperate scripture...The bible itself also denys sola scriptura in 2 Thessalonians 2:15

So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.- 2 Thessalonians 2:15

That would mean that baptism is required for salvation. We are saved by faith not works. Baptism is important, it is a command yes, but it isn't required for salvation. Necessary, but not absolutely necessary.

your treading murky waters here. In revelation God says we will all be gathered together and judged by our works..Faith alone is unbiblical because it contradicts the book of James that says "Faith without works is dead"..You will see whenever paul talks about works he is talking about the levitical Law, it dosen't mean to to away with everything. Cause if Paul really believed that he would have not ministered(doing ministry is a form of works)

We see that neither can stand without the other. We need both faith and works. Since works shows our faith and faith shows our works

 

[Aibrean]

If you read what I wrote, I said works are a result of faith but we don't need works in order to have forgiveness.

A mass murderer realizes what he did was wrong and repents with a true heart right before he is executed...to say that he wouldn't go to heaven because of his works and wasn't baptized is beyond me. I am sure there is some sort or restitution that needs to be made (vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord) but the grace we have is a free gift.

The sola scriptura comment is in reference to the Mormon's what...5 different pieces of scripture (one written by Joseph Smith himself). You only need the Bible (See Galatians 1:8).

 

[Apex]

If you guys really want to debate our beliefs, would you mind doing it where we can defend them, here?

 

[Brenton]

Another thing people forgot to mention is that Joseph Smith claims to have found the Book of Mormon on two golden tablets. He says God lead him to the tablets. He was the only one to have seen these "tablets" and when people asked to see them, he mysteriously lost them.

Actually, in the Book of Mormon, there are testaments of Witnesses to the Golden Plates, so, apparently, some people did see them.
There is a lot of inconsistency in this discussion from my point of view, and most of you don't seem to be backing up your anti-mormon claims. No, I am not a Mormon, but, it does make me sick the way people pick on this church just because it's different.
True Christians should be able to have an intellegent discussion about this, (which, some of it is) rather than simply push something aside.

 

[YourChild]

Hi, I am a newly converted atheist who now believes wholeheartedly in God. I have a very intense personal relationship with him, but I don't go to church because I haven't found one yet.

My question is this: I was approached a few weeks ago by the missionaries and they were pretty nice guys. Very open and easy to talk to, not at all pushy like you sometimes hear. They are very knowledgeable about their church and were able to answer all my questions to my satisfaction. Everything they have said meshes well with what I believe.

I am a very rational person, and I won't bevlieve something that doesn't make sense intellectually (at least wihtout any overwhelming emotional feeling, like the day I was saved). From what the missionaries told me, and what I have read about the church's beliefs on mormon.org, the Mormon Church fits very well in that. There is nothing extreme or emotionally excited about their belief system. It is very level-headed and completely rational from what I have read.

The question is, should I join their church? Does anyone know of any skeletons in the church's collective closet that I should be aware of?

Mormons believe that once we die and go into eternity we will become like God. thats the first lie of satan to eve ...thats what caused the down fall in the first place. Please please please stay away from Mormons! they are not Christians!!!

 

[Brenton]

You are absolutely right YourChild, I have never had anyone say it like that, but it makes perfect sense.

 

[annie1speed]

Proxy baptism is just one of several non-Biblical practices that are a part of the Mormon belief system. The Bible says we are to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. No one else can do this for us.

Bottom line is crawl in your Bible and study it and compare what religious groups say to it. That way, when you find the 'right church', you will know it because they follow God's little instruction book and not their own.

 

[Ave Maria]

No, you should not join the Mormon Church. They teach many false and heretical doctrines.

 

[Sadpenguin]

I don't think a biased tract by a Baptist preacher is a good place start for researching Mormonism. The best place to start for reserching any religion is "straight from the horse's mouth". For Mormons it would be the official website of the LDS, which is the largest branch:

http://www.lds.org/portal/site/LDSOrg

I would also highly reccommend reading their sacred texts such as the Book of Mormon for starters. This way, you can come to your own conclusions.

Finally, I would suggest that you ask questions in the Latter Day Saints forum. You've heard a lot of opinions against the LDS church here in this thread. It is only fair to here the other side of the story from Mormons themselves.

Good luck on your decision.

Actually, I think hearing it from the opposition is a great way to test a religion, that way you can cut out all the sugarcoating. Of course, the 2nd step is to do some research and find out what is true and what people are just making up. That goes for any religion, not just the mormons.

 

[Sadpenguin]

When I pray, in my heart I "know" the mormon church's teachings are false, but when a mormon prays he "knows" the teachings are true. Therefore, which one of us is right if we both "know" something while at the same time what we "know" is completely opposed. We need to be careful about trusting in this kind of "knowing" attitude when "knowing" is basically just a feeling.

 

[Albion]

I think we can assume that the inquirer knows to pray on his decision. What is being asked of us is more about the everyday life of the Church.

 

[kaykay637]

I would suggest the following website. The owner of the website is a former mormon but he doesn't seem to "have an axe to grind." I think he has a heart of love for the mormon people.
www.Exmormon.net

 

[HappyChicken]

I use to be Mormon, and I still struggle with my decision to leave...and that was years ago. I highly recommend that you pray and pray more before joining this church. There is alot that the missionaries don't tell you. Ask them about the Three Nephites. Ask them about how its MANDATORY for men to go on a mission. ASK THEM WHAT AN ENDOWMENT IS...I bet they give you a very watered down definition. Be more specific...ASK THEM WHAT HAPPENS AT THE CEREMONY IN WHICH YOU RECIEVE YOUR ENDOWMENT. There are loads of things you wont learn until you are a member for a long time. There are Mormon beliefs listed here in this forum that I have never even heard of, and I was part of the church. -Something to consider there.
I still struggle to see truth...I miss my Mormon friends...I miss Relief Society. Please read my blog....I have written about my experience there. They really screwed my mind up. -to this day. -YET I TRUELLY LOVE MORMONS. I'm not bashing them. I just think they are mislead.

 

[HappyChicken]

I am a very rational person, and I won't bevlieve something that doesn't make sense intellectually (at least wihtout any overwhelming emotional feeling, like the day I was saved). From what the missionaries told me, and what I have read about the church's beliefs on mormon.org, the Mormon Church fits very well in that. There is nothing extreme or emotionally excited about their belief system. It is very level-headed and completely rational from what I have read.

The question is, should I join their church? Does anyone know of any skeletons in the church's collective closet that I should be aware of?

Learn the story of the Three Nephites...there is nothing rational there.

 

[HappyChicken]

The missionaries that you meet...although I'm sure they are well-meaning good folks...have attended a very intense missionary training center. It's very intensive. They learn their teaching skills and a new language (if necisary) in a few weeks. They are literally brainwashed on how to teach you.....and on what not to teach you. They are carefully schooled on how to answer just about every question you have. Also, they are not permitted to be seperated from their mission companion at any time....except to go to the restroom... They are not permitted to listen to the radio or watch television. I'm not even sure if they can have contact with their families....if they can, it's not much.

 

[Romans 13:3]

If you are truly finding the Mormon church rational, please look at these site. They are Catholic based, but most of the points should resonate with most protestant beliefs.

http://www.catholic.com/library/Mormon_Stumpers.asp

http://www.catholic.com/library/Gods_of_the_Mormon_Church.asp