Should Christians touch?

[Romanseight2005]

Nocturnal Emissions are no where close to being equivalent to the relief of a full blown [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]. I would not rely on nocturnal emissions to prevent future medical problems, even if a study is not "conclusive" why would I want to take a chance on something like that espeically when MB is also pleasurable.

Okay, I wont argue the level of relief. But if you compare that to something else, it still doesn't justify it. Motrin won't giveme the same level of relief as morphine, but if I take morphine everyday for the rest of my life, the rest of my life will be short.

 

[Created2Write]

Okay, I wont argue the level of relief. But if you compare that to something else, it still doesn't justify it. Motrin won't giveme the same level of relief as morphine, but if I take morphine everyday for the rest of my life, the rest of my life will be short.

Not sure that comparison really applies. While taking morphine everyday might make you die sooner, it doesn't mean you would be sinning if you took it everyday. We're discussing whether this is a sin or not. Also, masturbation isn't physically bad for you, unless done in excess like most things. Too much alcohol is bad for you, too much exercise is bad for you, too much food is bad for you, too much sleep is bad for you; that doesn't mean those things are wrong, just that when done in excess, they can cause harm to one's body. Masturbation/sex is similar. Too much can actually break a man's penis, but that doesn't mean the action is, itself, is sin.

For those against masturbation, prove to me that lust always accompanies masturbation, and I will keep quiet. Until you can prove this, however, you have no basis of masturbation being a sin. CAN it be? Yeah, of course. Is it always? No.

 

[highlife]

Not sure that comparison really applies. While taking morphine everyday might make you die sooner, it doesn't mean you would be sinning if you took it everyday. We're discussing whether this is a sin or not. Also, masturbation isn't physically bad for you, unless done in excess like most things. Too much alcohol is bad for you, too much exercise is bad for you, too much food is bad for you, too much sleep is bad for you; that doesn't mean those things are wrong, just that when done in excess, they can cause harm to one's body. Masturbation/sex is similar. Too much can actually break a man's penis, but that doesn't mean the action is, itself, is sin.

For those against masturbation, prove to me that lust always accompanies masturbation, and I will keep quiet. Until you can prove this, however, you have no basis of masturbation being a sin. CAN it be? Yeah, of course. Is it always? No.

I would think it to be extremely rare for lust to be apart of touching yourself.

 

[andreha]

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[angelT17]

I think it's a sin

 

[Newman1992]

I think touching yourself is not good when you are thinking about lust in your brain, but if you just touch and don't think of anything, it's hard to do. But I've tried it and it worked, if you just think about the "feeling" of it and touch, I don't think it's wrong in god's eyes.

But if you touch and have dirty thoughts in your mind about girls/women/etc, then it's lust and i highly recommend not to do it.

My 2cents.

 

[Rev.Ross]

Masturbation is not a sin, lust is. Masturbation can ease sexual tension and prevent STD's, HIV and unwanted pregnancy. There is no Scripture which condemns masturbation. In Genesis 38, the sin was not masturbation, the sin was not fulfilling the family obligation to continue life on behalf of the deceased brother. Tamar tricked her father in law to have sex with her, and one of her twins was the ancestor of David and Jesus.
Thanks, Rev. Ross

 

[hijklmnop]

For those against masturbation, prove to me that lust always accompanies masturbation, and I will keep quiet. Until you can prove this, however, you have no basis of masturbation being a sin. CAN it be? Yeah, of course. Is it always? No.

I agree with this. I think mb-ion is ok as long as not accompanied by lustful thoughts of anyone outside the marriage. If done in conjunction with lustful thoughts of one's SPOUSE or nothing at all save the feelings of physical pleasure, have at it. I do agree that it's difficult for many to control their mind and mb WITHOUT lust but it is possible, so if you can, I see nothing wrong with it. If you can't, either stop mb-ing to avoid the sin of lust, or learn to control your thoughts. The only other issue I have with mb-ion is if a spouse is doing that INSTEAD of being intimate with their willing partner. That would be selfish and wrong imo.

 

[Rev.Ross]

Mutual masturbation would be ok, as well as regular good intercourse and [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] that way. My wife likes to watch me touch, but she will not let me see her do it. She does it in the shower now and then and that is ok with me. When we first got married we had sex at least once a day. Now 30 years later that rate is way less.
Good sex to all with your spouse, Rev. Ross

 

[Created2Write]

I agree with this. I think mb-ion is ok as long as not accompanied by lustful thoughts of anyone outside the marriage. If done in conjunction with lustful thoughts of one's SPOUSE or nothing at all save the feelings of physical pleasure, have at it. I do agree that it's difficult for many to control their mind and mb WITHOUT lust but it is possible, so if you can, I see nothing wrong with it. If you can't, either stop mb-ing to avoid the sin of lust, or learn to control your thoughts. The only other issue I have with mb-ion is if a spouse is doing that INSTEAD of being intimate with their willing partner. That would be selfish and wrong imo.

Exactly.

 

[prophecyistrue]

Masturbation is not a sin, lust is. Masturbation can ease sexual tension and prevent STD's, HIV and unwanted pregnancy. There is no Scripture which condemns masturbation. In Genesis 38, the sin was not masturbation, the sin was not fulfilling the family obligation to continue life on behalf of the deceased brother. Tamar tricked her father in law to have sex with her, and one of her twins was the ancestor of David and Jesus.
Thanks, Rev. Ross

Are you a mail order ordained Reverand, Is it or is it not a sexual act, there is no sexual acts permitted outside of marriage end of story, Its an addiction that is so powerful, even good Reverands can't get free so they tell you its not a sin, so they can feel better about themselves. take every thought and hold it captive to Christ, stop feeding your lustful heart impure thoughts and this addiction will go right away.......dear God help us all when Reverands are telling people they can lust and commit sexual sins by themselves and its not a sin

 

[prophecyistrue]

Okay, I wont argue the level of relief. But if you compare that to something else, it still doesn't justify it. Motrin won't giveme the same level of relief as morphine, but if I take morphine everyday for the rest of my life, the rest of my life will be short.

umm! a nocturnal emission is an [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] that happens in your sleep

 

[Rev.Ross]

Dear prophecyistrue,

I am a seminary graduate from a legitimate seminary (ATS accredited),and I was ordained by a mainline church 30 plus years ago. I do believe that sex outside of marriage is a sin. I believe in fidelity in marriage. I am not addicted to masturbation, and I do take every thought (that requires interpretation) captive for Christ. Several people have asked me for advice in my lifetime, and I hope I have steered them to Christ, and prevented them from unwanted pregnancies, STD's and HIV. Masturbation is an act of sex, and can be done with or without your spouse. There are health and emotional benefits from it. If you don't do it, fine. Do not judge those who do. God bless you, Rev. Ross

 

[dayhiker]

This something is sex and sex before marriage is sin I don't find in the Bible. Yes there are sexual sins people can commit. but I don't find the Bible saying either masturbation or sex is a sin.

Actually, I'm not sure sex is a good word to use when talking about what the Bible says about sinning with out sexuality. Anyone know if there is a word in Greed that corresponds to what we mean when we say sex?

 

[Created2Write]

This something is sex and sex before marriage is sin I don't find in the Bible. Yes there are sexual sins people can commit. but I don't find the Bible saying either masturbation or sex is a sin.

Actually, I'm not sure sex is a good word to use when talking about what the Bible says about sinning with out sexuality. Anyone know if there is a word in Greed that corresponds to what we mean when we say sex?

Galatians 5:19-"19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,[a] fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,"

The Greek word in this verse for "fornication" is inappropriate contenteia which means:

illicit sexual intercourse

1. adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.
2. sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18
3. sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman;

Sex itself is not a sin. Fornication(sex outside of marriage), adultery(a married person having sex with someone other than their spouse), homosexuality, etc. are sins according to the Bible. As you see in the above verse and definition.

However, I doubt that masturbation counts as a sexual act. Outside of being used with another person or lust, masturbation, imo, is not any different than nocturnal emissions. And, as there is no Scripture that directly calls masturbation a sin, I don't believe that it is.

 

[Rev.Ross]

A true sexual act is between two people. Masturbation is a solo act, unless you perform it on someone else, then it becomes much higher on the sexual scale. Masturbation can prevent infidelity, unwanted pregnancy, STD's, HIV, and offers relief from sexual tension. Spouses at times can't have sex due to chronic illness or surgery, and masturbation offers their partner some form of relief. There is an addictive masturbation, where a person has to do it several times a day in all kinds of places. That is something else. On a one to three scale I would rate masturbation as a (1), Oral sex as a (2), intercourse with [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] for both male and female (3). When my wife and I have sex, [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] is always part of the deal for her.
Thanks, Rev.Ross

 

[Created2Write]

A true sexual act is between two people. Masturbation is a solo act, unless you perform it on someone else, then it becomes much higher on the sexual scale. Masturbation can prevent infidelity, unwanted pregnancy, STD's, HIV, and offers relief from sexual tension. Spouses at times can have sex due to chronic illness or surgery, and masturbation offers their partner some form of relief. There is an addictive masturbation, where a person has to do it several times a day in all kinds of places. That is something else. On a one to three scale I would rate masturbation as a (1), Oral sex as a (2), intercourse with [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] for both male and female (3). When my wife and I have sex, [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] is always part of the deal for her.
Thanks, Rev.Ross

Exactly. I agree with this as well.

 

[Rev.Ross]

I think and teach that masturbation is a great acts of sexual release and pleasure. It prevents HIV, STD's, unwanted pregnancy and affairs. All people can do this either married or single. The benefits I mentioned are real. Who can deny that?
Also, for older men, masturbation cuts way down on prostate cancer. Masturbation also decreases depression. So all in all, masturbation has a lot going for it. There is no teaching in the Bible that I have found in over 40 years that teaches against it. Lust is a sin, but people can touch without lust. There is nothing lustful about creative fantasy. Lust is the intent to go beyond masturbation to actual sex forbidden by Scripture. Thanks, Rev.Ross

 

[dayhiker]

Created2Wrtie,
Yes, I am aware of that definition of inappropriate contenteia. Best I can tell from my research most of that definition is Christians making inappropriate contenteia mean that. inappropriate contenteia has always meant prostitution in Greek for centuries before Paul's time to the present day.
When Jerome translated the Latin Valgate Bible in the late 300's AD he choose one of over 26 slang Latin works for prostitution. Fornix. This word was used of prostitutes in Rome that applied their trade under an arch in the doorway to a cellar room. Fornix meant arch or angle. In the Middle Ages this word gradually came to have a boarder meaning and came into the English language just before 1400. Most dictionaries still give the root of fornication to be the Latin fornix for prostitution.

The Greeks had moral writers. They listed lists of wrong or sins and Paul follows that practice. Not once did the Greek writers use inappropriate contenteia in their lists of wrongs and sins. If inappropriate contenteia meant illict sex or immoral sex than I think they would have used inappropriate contenteia in their lists.

The LXX use inappropriate contenteia to translate the Hebrew word for prostitution. Which is often the writings that the NT writers quote. Nor am I aware of LXX using inappropriate contenteia for most of items in your list.

So I've not accepted the definition you quote as I've not been able to document that definition in any way. I try to stick as close as possible to the Historical - Grammatical method of interpreting the Bible.

Thanks for your comment.

Galatians 5:19-"19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,[a] fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,"

The Greek word in this verse for "fornication" is inappropriate contenteia which means:

illicit sexual intercourse

1. adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.
2. sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18
3. sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman;

Sex itself is not a sin. Fornication(sex outside of marriage), adultery(a married person having sex with someone other than their spouse), homosexuality, etc. are sins according to the Bible. As you see in the above verse and definition.

However, I doubt that masturbation counts as a sexual act. Outside of being used with another person or lust, masturbation, imo, is not any different than nocturnal emissions. And, as there is no Scripture that directly calls masturbation a sin, I don't believe that it is.

 

[Created2Write]

Created2Wrtie,
Yes, I am aware of that definition of inappropriate contenteia. Best I can tell from my research most of that definition is Christians making inappropriate contenteia mean that. inappropriate contenteia has always meant prostitution in Greek for centuries before Paul's time to the present day.
When Jerome translated the Latin Valgate Bible in the late 300's AD he choose one of over 26 slang Latin works for prostitution. Fornix. This word was used of prostitutes in Rome that applied their trade under an arch in the doorway to a cellar room. Fornix meant arch or angle. In the Middle Ages this word gradually came to have a boarder meaning and came into the English language just before 1400. Most dictionaries still give the root of fornication to be the Latin fornix for prostitution.

The Greeks had moral writers. They listed lists of wrong or sins and Paul follows that practice. Not once did the Greek writers use inappropriate contenteia in their lists of wrongs and sins. If inappropriate contenteia meant illict sex or immoral sex than I think they would have used inappropriate contenteia in their lists.

The LXX use inappropriate contenteia to translate the Hebrew word for prostitution. Which is often the writings that the NT writers quote. Nor am I aware of LXX using inappropriate contenteia for most of items in your list.

So I've not accepted the definition you quote as I've not been able to document that definition in any way. I try to stick as close as possible to the Historical - Grammatical method of interpreting the Bible.

Thanks for your comment.

I have looked at more than five different Greek Lexicons and all have given inappropriate contenteia the definition I provided. Unless you can provide proof beyond your own words, and actually show me why inappropriate contenteia doesn't mean the definition I gave, then I can not accept this post.

Give me proof that fornication isn't a sin. Until then, my post and definition stands.