Should Christians touch?

[contango]

Hyperbole.
Otherwise, it makes adultery no worse than checking someone out.

Not really... you can easily look at someone and admire their beauty without dwelling on what it would be like to sleep with them, picturing them naked and all that.

 

[dayhiker]

I find the context of Mat.5:28 is adultery. The Bible defines adultery to be taking another's wife. Lust is the same Greek word that Paul used to say we should not covet. Secondly, this Greek word is used of Jesus and good angels having good desires. So not all lusts are evil. Since both coveting and adultery are 2 of the 10 commandmands it seem to me that Jesus is saying we should look at another man's wife and covet her, ie desire to take her away from him. Because that coveting look is the 1st step on the way to adultery the context Jesus is talking about. Thaat is clearly, an evil lust or look and fits the context. Emphesising the looking is to make the meaning bigger than I can document from what the Bible teaches. I personally consider that a sin of adding to the Word of God. So I don't do that.

But maybe you can show me a clear verse (one where looking is the context)where looking at a woman is a sin.

dayhiker

 

[ponderingnwandering]

Matthew 5:28 (New International Version)

28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

I can see your point sir, but i still have to say that looking at another woman lustfully is dangerous, and masturbating while thinking of her is most certainly a sin.

Allow me to use a different line of logic. If you told your wife that you masturbated while thinking of another woman then smiled at her lovingly and said its okay because its just your own thoughts and nothing happened, where would you end up sleeping tonight?

 

[The Nihilist]

Not really... you can easily look at someone and admire their beauty without dwelling on what it would be like to sleep with them, picturing them naked and all that.

Even if I acknowledge such a distinction, that still fails to make a literal reading of the cited scripture any less ridiculous.

 

[Guybrush Threepwood]

What about the health risks such as prostate health for those that go from regularly masturbating to suddenly stopping altogether? (I don't see myself ever getting married.)

 

[contango]

Even if I acknowledge such a distinction, that still fails to make a literal reading of the cited scripture any less ridiculous.

With respect, that's a matter of opinion. One might reasonably assume a Christian gives some credence to the Bible in a way an atheist would not.

 

[The Nihilist]

With respect, that's a matter of opinion. One might reasonably assume a Christian gives some credence to the Bible in a way an atheist would not.

Ooh, I bet I know. You don't think there's a difference between mortal and venial sins, do you?

 

[contango]

Ooh, I bet I know. You don't think there's a difference between mortal and venial sins, do you?

I'm not sure what that has to do with the question about whether Christians should touch, or indeed with my comment about expecting a Christian to heed the words of the Bible in a way I wouldn't expect an atheist to.

 

[dayhiker]

ya, woman have these issues, so I think I'll remain single ... personally, if I wasn't there for my wife I'd want her to touch and enjoy the experience with what ever thoughts see needed to do so.

 

[Happy Hearts Club]

Yes, but where does it say it in the Bible? I need actual evidence towards Jesus's stance on the whole thing.

Masturbation is an unclean habit that allows impure thoughts to proliferate in the mind, which in turn can lead to loss of control of your mental inclinations. Jesus' stance is simple, do the will of God, and the will of God is to honor Him with your bodies, to hold them in purity and holiness. Yes you may stumble at times, but you need to understand it is not a good habit and one should be determined to stay away/minimize it altogether. Masturbation is an inward gratification of self, sex was and is meant to be an outward expression of love towards your spouse. By conditioning yourself in the habit of masturbating, you are confusing and distorting the intended use for sex within yourself. It is not healthy and harmful on quite a few levels.

 

[CrystalBrooke]

It is not healthy and harmful on quite a few levels.

Harmful? Maybe if you have a really weak heart...
I'd like to see you back this up with some citations from doctors or a medical book.

 

[Happy Hearts Club]

Harmful? Maybe if you have a really weak heart...
I'd like to see you back this up with some citations from doctors or a medical book.

To be honest, I should be the one double face palming here. Promoting worldly wisdom over godly wisdom? I speak of this because it is a real issue for myself and I have done the research. And the harm is predominantly spiritual, best believe it is sin and it will undoubtedly harm your walk with God. Yet you dub it as "having a weak heart", which couldn't be further from the truth. If having a "strong heart" means being able to sin without experiencing serious repurcussions on the conscious, I'd say there is serious work to be done. I came across an excellent post on the topic from a user on another site...

_____________________________________________________________

Though sexual offenses such as premarital sex (fornication), homosexuality, adultery, and inappropriate behavior with animals are plainly condemned as gross sins in the Bible, masturbation is not mentioned. (Genesis 39:7-9; Leviticus 18:20, 22, 23; 1 Corinthians 6:9, 10)

Masturbation was common in the Greek-speaking world during Bible times, and several Greek words were used to describe the practice. Interestingly, not one of these words is used in the Bible. Since masturbation is not directly condemned in the Bible, does this mean it is harmless? Absolutely not! Even those not especially concerned with God's viewpoint feel uneasy about the practice. For instance, Dr. Aaron Hass in his survey of the sexual practices of 625 teenagers reported: The majority of adolescents who masturbated reported feeling guilty, ashamed, dirty, stupid, embarrassed, or abnormal. Surely, masturbation is an unclean habit. But since uncleanness, according to the Bible, is a term that allows for a wide range of degree of seriousness, masturbation is not to be classed with such serious sins as fornication or other types of gross sexual immorality.Ephesians 4:19. Masturbation also instills certain attitudes that are mentally corrupting. (Compare 2 Corinthians 11:3.)

This habit teaches one to treat his or her body as merely an object to be used for sexual pleasure. When masturbating, a person is immersed in his or her own bodily sensations, totally self-centered. Sex becomes separated from love and is relegated to a reflex that releases tension. But God intended sexual desires to be satisfied in sexual relations, an expression of love between a man and his wife.Proverbs 5:15-19.
Losing this viewpoint can lead to problems in adjusting to a right relationship with those of the opposite sex. Such ones could be viewed as sex objects rather than as sensitive human beings. One may tend to exploit another as a mere tool for sexual satisfaction. Such wrong attitudes taught by masturbation can defile one's spirit, or dominant mental inclination.

For good reason, God's Word urges: Beloved ones, let us cleanse ourselves of every defilement of flesh and spirit. (2 Corinthians 7:1)
How to fight it?
The battle against masturbation is fought in our mind. Hence, the Bible recommends: Prepare your minds for action; be self-controlled. (1 Peter 1:13, New International Version) For instance, we may happen to notice something that is sexually stimulating. The mind is inclined to dwell on such thoughts and let passion develop. (Matthew 5:28) When that occurs, our bodies tend toward sexual activity. The longer our minds dwell on the wrong thought, the more this physical process escalates to higher phases of excitement. Eventually, the level of arousal may lead to masturbation. But the mind must exert itself and reject the immoral thought. If it does so, then the arousal soon dies down and any discomfort because of body tension fades.
When you have difficulty falling asleep, endeavor to imitate faithful King David, who wrote: When I have remembered you [God] upon my lounge, during the night watches I meditate on you. (Psalm 63:6) Forcing our minds to ponder on God and his qualities will often break the spell. You lovers of Jehovah, hate what is bad, wrote the psalmist. (Psalm 97:10) It is not easy to hate a practice that brings such momentary fleshly pleasure, but keep thinking of how God views this unclean habit
Avoid like the plague any reading matter, TV programs, or movies with sensuous themes. Don't keep looking at such things. Make my eyes pass on from seeing what is worthless, prayed the psalmist. (Psalm 119:37) Such sights will be stored in your mind and often resurface when you are alone.
Finally, to assist in maintaining self-control during the nighttime, one Christian advises: Before going to bed, read something related to spiritual things. It is very important that the last thought of the day be a spiritual one. Prayer at this time is also extremely helpful.


Sources: The scriptures cited and the publication, The Awake! Magazine, March 8th 1988, page21
Watchtower Bible and Tract Society

 

[Happy Hearts Club]

She posted this on the other christian thread, worthy christian. I am a male and I have strong sexual urges if you dont touch sometimes it causes pain in your groin area. Might be a sin, repent after udo it

I'd say the phrase "worthy christian" is actually an oxymoron! I am the first to fail when it comes to this, I know. However, what really matters is the heart. As long as you view this correctly and strive for God's holiness in your life to the best of your abilities, you are doing your job. Stop and think if God would be pleased with such a habit, the answer is fairly obvious.

 

[Happy Hearts Club]

I am a 28 year old virgin, whos never had a girlfriend, and I am tired of masturbation, makes me feel worthless, I dont even enjoy it anymore. I think its a sin. I think Im going to slowly give it up. I mean I always thought when I got older I would have a woman to experience those feelings with but I really dont know how to get a girlfriend that would eventualluy become my wife.

As look to the future of a lonely ass life, I am like I am getting too old to be a pervert. I am praying to God ,I have stopped masturbating for months. Thats my goal in 2011 to stop cold Turkey.

The only part is if when u go to sleep u think about sex and u get aroused and then when u dont relase yourself u become very sore.

Brother, it is so easy for us to trudge on through life with "tunnel vision", whereby our lives are revolving around a specific need or desire. Jesus Himself encourages us to not place so much significance on temporal things for a good reason, not only can it cause us to stumble but it will one day pass away. Yes they are important, but the things of God vastly outweigh them. God is perfect in His plans for you and He desires you to be fully satisfied with Him first and foremost. To someone who doesn't know the Lord, all that they see is a lonely life, but you have something much more than a wife can provide, the truth and love of God! I encourage you in this, and commend you on the plans to give up the cold turkey!

 

[Matorin]

some rather explicit language below, be forewarned:


on the topic of masturbation (especially with inappropriate contentography), and this is all from a PURELY physiological standpoint, doing it releases a dopamine burst to your brain. Extended use essentially deadens your brain to normal amounts of dopamine, the amount that one would experience during sex. For men, this means they literally will not be able to "get it up." For women, this will mean you will not be into it and sex will be uncomfortable because you will not be aroused. It's not something you can control, after extended (could be as little as a month but is more common for habitual users 6+ months) times your brain will LITERALLY NOT WORK CORRECTLY. For a reboot, you need to cut off all self gratification and all sexual acts for 8-12 weeks so that the dopamine receptors in your brain will become more acute to small changes. You cannot just switch from masturbation to normal sex and be okay. If the spiritual argument isn't convincing you (it didn't me), this is all from a scientific standpoint, not a religious one. Don't do it. It messed you up.

 

[ponderingnwandering]

^
can you give some links for that? i'm not doubting you, i'd just like to learn a bit more.

 

[SionDS]

Matorin, that's not how dopamine production or receptors work at all.

You realize the same "burst" you get from masturbating and sex is the exact same physical responce(as far as dopamine is concerned) as when you eat something delicious, or hear good news, or simply relax?

 

[ImperialPhantom]

To be honest, I should be the one double face palming here. Promoting worldly wisdom over godly wisdom? I speak of this because it is a real issue for myself and I have done the research. And the harm is predominantly spiritual, best believe it is sin and it will undoubtedly harm your walk with God. Yet you dub it as "having a weak heart", which couldn't be further from the truth. If having a "strong heart" means being able to sin without experiencing serious repurcussions on the conscious, I'd say there is serious work to be done. I came across an excellent post on the topic from a user on another site...

_____________________________________________________________

Though sexual offenses such as premarital sex (fornication), homosexuality, adultery, and inappropriate behavior with animals are plainly condemned as gross sins in the Bible, masturbation is not mentioned. (Genesis 39:7-9; Leviticus 18:20, 22, 23; 1 Corinthians 6:9, 10)

Masturbation was common in the Greek-speaking world during Bible times, and several Greek words were used to describe the practice. Interestingly, not one of these words is used in the Bible. Since masturbation is not directly condemned in the Bible, does this mean it is harmless? Absolutely not! Even those not especially concerned with God's viewpoint feel uneasy about the practice. For instance, Dr. Aaron Hass in his survey of the sexual practices of 625 teenagers reported: The majority of adolescents who masturbated reported feeling guilty, ashamed, dirty, stupid, embarrassed, or abnormal. Surely, masturbation is an unclean habit. But since uncleanness, according to the Bible, is a term that allows for a wide range of degree of seriousness, masturbation is not to be classed with such serious sins as fornication or other types of gross sexual immorality.Ephesians 4:19. Masturbation also instills certain attitudes that are mentally corrupting. (Compare 2 Corinthians 11:3.)

This habit teaches one to treat his or her body as merely an object to be used for sexual pleasure. When masturbating, a person is immersed in his or her own bodily sensations, totally self-centered. Sex becomes separated from love and is relegated to a reflex that releases tension. But God intended sexual desires to be satisfied in sexual relations, an expression of love between a man and his wife.Proverbs 5:15-19.
Losing this viewpoint can lead to problems in adjusting to a right relationship with those of the opposite sex. Such ones could be viewed as sex objects rather than as sensitive human beings. One may tend to exploit another as a mere tool for sexual satisfaction. Such wrong attitudes taught by masturbation can defile one's spirit, or dominant mental inclination.

For good reason, God's Word urges: Beloved ones, let us cleanse ourselves of every defilement of flesh and spirit. (2 Corinthians 7:1)
How to fight it?
The battle against masturbation is fought in our mind. Hence, the Bible recommends: Prepare your minds for action; be self-controlled. (1 Peter 1:13, New International Version) For instance, we may happen to notice something that is sexually stimulating. The mind is inclined to dwell on such thoughts and let passion develop. (Matthew 5:28) When that occurs, our bodies tend toward sexual activity. The longer our minds dwell on the wrong thought, the more this physical process escalates to higher phases of excitement. Eventually, the level of arousal may lead to masturbation. But the mind must exert itself and reject the immoral thought. If it does so, then the arousal soon dies down and any discomfort because of body tension fades.
When you have difficulty falling asleep, endeavor to imitate faithful King David, who wrote: When I have remembered you [God] upon my lounge, during the night watches I meditate on you. (Psalm 63:6) Forcing our minds to ponder on God and his qualities will often break the spell. You lovers of Jehovah, hate what is bad, wrote the psalmist. (Psalm 97:10) It is not easy to hate a practice that brings such momentary fleshly pleasure, but keep thinking of how God views this unclean habit
Avoid like the plague any reading matter, TV programs, or movies with sensuous themes. Don't keep looking at such things. Make my eyes pass on from seeing what is worthless, prayed the psalmist. (Psalm 119:37) Such sights will be stored in your mind and often resurface when you are alone.
Finally, to assist in maintaining self-control during the nighttime, one Christian advises: Before going to bed, read something related to spiritual things. It is very important that the last thought of the day be a spiritual one. Prayer at this time is also extremely helpful.


Sources: The scriptures cited and the publication, The Awake! Magazine, March 8th 1988, page21
Watchtower Bible and Tract Society

So basically, your argument is that Christian should not touch because even though the Bible doesn't say so, some Jehovah's Witness magazine said it 22 years ago, and it sounded really spiritual and full of all of that self-denial obsession that sounds so good and spiritual, but really has no basis. Sorry, but you have to come up with a better argument for a Christian not to do it than that. Just because something SOUNDS spiritual and Godly doesn't mean it's truth.

 

[Christianrocker90]

After reading all the arguments for and against, I've come to the conclusion which is not much different form what I had when I started. to sum it up: Either you do it or your body will do it for you (especially for the guys). There are girls out there that have a rare sickness where just the slightest vibration (like a cell phone ringing or the humming of an engine or being poked) will trigger knee buckling [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], even if they don't want them and are not sexually aroused. It's called Persistent Genital Arousal Disorder (PGAD). My point is this, I don't think God considers masturbation a sin as designed our bodies. Just be careful what your thinking about.

 

[Matorin]

Also opiates

Almost everything you find is anecdotal. There have been no official studies that I'm aware of, mainly because internet inappropriate contentography has only gotten big within the past 10 years. Note: all non-Christian sites, everything (including my comments below this comment) is graphic

google "inappropriate content erectile dysfunction" or "masturbation erectile dysfunction" I can't post links because I have under 50 posts :o



As for masturbation without inappropriate content, scientifically speaking I don't think it would have the same effect because the stimuli is much smaller, but still, why exactly are you doing it? Because it feels good? Because you think you have a right to do it, and if your body does is it can't be wrong? Because there is a disease that causes an [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], that must mean masterbating as a single man is acceptable, nay PREFERRED by God? If you reject all theology of the body, I can tell you this: I wish so badly that I had never seen any inappropriate contentography or had masturbated without my wife when I was single. I would trade all that knowledge I gained from watching how others have sex and imaging myself doing it, I would trade it for the innocence of learning about my wife, and experiencing sex together. Sex (and yes, willful masturbating is absoultely a form of sex) is not intended for pleasure. Is it pleasurable? HECK YES IT IS! Is its purpose to give you pleasure? No, it is the uniting of a husband and a wife into one flesh. Outcomes: pleasure and procreation. To take away from it's purpose (and to stop its outcomes) is absolutely, unequivocally sin. It is contrary to God's purpose, and to God's will. It is idolizing sex and self above God's commands, and thus above God.

"But I can't help it!" Absolutely a lie. If you say this you are justifying something you know is wrong. If you need help, if its with inappropriate content then download a free watchdog software for your computer to block all x-rated sites. Write down a password that is random numbers and letters, type it in, then throw the paper away. Above all, talk to your pastor. Don't dilly dally around the issue, just say "Pastor I need to talk to you about something very serious." Then: "I think I'm addicting to masturbating and I need freedom."


And sir, pardon my french, but "Just be careful what your thinking about" is horse[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] and you know it. "Oh I can look at naked women and I'm fine, I don't think impure thoughts." That doesn't mean you have self control, that means you are desensitized. The way that God created you is to think thoughts like that when you are aroused. Your desires for a woman are GOOD and RIGHT. If you are burning right now as a single man, I agree with Paul in that you should find a wife! Does that mean you might have to not touch for a few years? Yup. It sure does.


To those of you who think that the thought isn't wrong, and for whatever reason are rejecting Scripture by calling it hyperbole, I'll say this: If you went to your girlfriend's house, and told her father that you think of his daughter when you rub your dangly bits, what do you think would happen? My guess involves a shotgun or machete. In fact, if you're thinking "I'll just remain single and then its all okay," same scenario, except the girl isn't your girlfriend, just that random girl who you are lusting over. Go to her dad. Tell him what you are thinking and doing. Is he happy?


Broaden the scope. That woman is God's daughter. If you're not willing to go up to the woman's earthly father, what exactly are you twisting around in your mind to think God doesn't mind? On the subject of masturbation without think sexual thoughts: how exactly are you going to retrain your psyche when you get a wife and ARE supposed to think sexual thoughts? And how do you justify the separation of sexual pleasure from the pleasure you are getting from masturbation? Please explain why you discharge sperm if what you are doing is inherently not sexual.