Should Christians be OK with legalized abortion?

[Calminian]

I'll use my friend Ted's argument below to kick this off.

....I'm pretty confident that God doesn't want His children gambling or using drugs or doing much drinking of alcohol. But, all these things are legal to a point. Do you honestly believe that what man deems legal or not legal will have even the slightest affect on how God will judge?

So, for me, it's perfectly ok for abortions to be legal. ....

Think about what Ted is saying. Gambling and drinking are wrong, but not illegal, therefore, abortion can also be legal, even though it's wrong. Now he's speaking specifically about the murder of the unborn (the most innocent members of any society), but this argument could be applied more broadly. I've also heard this same argument applied to gay marriage, and many decades ago it was applied to slavery. So what wrong with this?

First, neither drinking nor gambling are said to be a sin in Scripture. The Bible actually gives guidelines on safe drinking (Jesus drank wine, after all). And gambling would fall under stewardship. But what does Scripture say about Murder—the unjust killing of the innocent? Does the Bible give us special guidelines on how to murder unborn babies?

It's very obvious to anyone reading Scripture with an open obedient heart that God does not want murder (the unjust killing of the innocent) to be legal in any form by any government. As Paul and Peter both explain, governments basic role is to punish evil and protect the innocent (Romans 13, 1 Peter 2:13-17). I can't think of anyone more innocent and more in need of protection than the unborn.

Rom. 13:1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. 4 For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.
​

Ted strongly advocates for Hillary Clinton and abortion rights, and now I see why. But we Christians can never support something as evil as the murder of the innocent. God help us the day the Church crosses that line. We'll lose every last bit of moral standing we have left.

 

[brinny]

Should Christians be OK with legalized abortion?

Perhaps the question should be:

Is God?

 

[samir]

I'll use my friend Ted's argument below to kick this off.



Think about what Ted is saying. Gambling and drinking are wrong, but not illegal, therefore, abortion can also be legal, even though it's wrong. Now he's speaking specifically about the murder of the unborn (the most innocent members of any society), but this argument could be applied more broadly. I've also heard this same argument applied to gay marriage, and many decades ago it was applied to slavery. So what wrong with this?

Gambling and drinking are not wrong. Drunkenness is wrong but not illegal unless a person is drinking in public or driving while drunk because in those cases he puts others in harm's way.

First, neither drinking nor gambling are said to be a sin in Scripture. The Bible actually gives guidelines on safe drinking (Jesus drank wine, after all). And gambling would fall under stewardship. But what does Scripture say about Murder—the unjust killing of the innocent? Does the Bible give us special guidelines on how to murder unborn babies?

It's very obvious to anyone reading Scripture with an open obedient heart that God does not want murder (the unjust killing of the innocent) to be legal in any form by any government. As Paul and Peter both explain, governments basic role is to punish evil and protect the innocent (Romans 13, 1 Peter 2:13-17). I can't think of anyone more innocent and more in need of protection than the unborn.

Rom. 13:1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. 4 For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.
​

Ted strongly advocates for Hillary Clinton and abortion rights, and now I see why. But we Christians can never support something as evil as the murder of the innocent. God help us the day the Church crosses that line. We'll lose every last bit of moral standing we have left.

Abortion should be illegal, not because it's a sin, but because it harms an innocent person who has a right to live and we need to protect children from evil people who want to kill them. Sane people acknowledge abortion is a sin and I believe it is illegal in every state after a certain number of weeks after conception. If a 30 week old person has a right to live why not a 20 week old person? It doesn't make sense and there's no scientific evidence that killing a 20 week old is any different than killing a 30 week old child. It's only legal because immoral women would rather kill their child than be inconvenienced by having to carry and deliver baby.

 

[CodyFaith]

No. Abortion is murder.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Everyone who is approving of sin (abortion, killing, murder, gambling, drinking, adultery, greed, oppressing the poor)
it
is
written that YHWH does not even hear their prayer.

Don't ever believe HE will let them in,

unless as HE said "Unless you all (JESUS to the crowd around HIM) repent, you will all perish as they did when the tower fell on them." .

 

[RDKirk]

I'll use my friend Ted's argument below to kick this off.



Think about what Ted is saying. Gambling and drinking are wrong, but not illegal, therefore, abortion can also be legal, even though it's wrong. Now he's speaking specifically about the murder of the unborn (the most innocent members of any society), but this argument could be applied more broadly. I've also heard this same argument applied to gay marriage, and many decades ago it was applied to slavery. So what wrong with this?

First, neither drinking nor gambling are said to be a sin in Scripture. The Bible actually gives guidelines on safe drinking (Jesus drank wine, after all). And gambling would fall under stewardship. But what does Scripture say about Murder—the unjust killing of the innocent? Does the Bible give us special guidelines on how to murder unborn babies?

Hmm. What does scripture say, specifically, about abortion?

Then the Lord said to Moses, “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘If a man’s wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him so that another man has sexual relations with her, and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure—or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure— then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephah of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy, a reminder-offering to draw attention to wrongdoing.

“‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord. Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.” -- Numbers 5

 

[brinny]

Hmm. What does scripture say, specifically, about abortion?

Then the Lord said to Moses, “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘If a man’s wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him so that another man has sexual relations with her, and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure—or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure— then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephah of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy, a reminder-offering to draw attention to wrongdoing.

“‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord. Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.” -- Numbers 5

You just described "abortion"?

Secondarily, in thinking about your post, what was your point?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

At that time, perhaps :
Numbers 5New International Version (NIV)
The Purity of the Camp

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

You just described "abortion"?

(this is just from quik search in biblegateway dot com)
Numbers 5:27
KJ21
And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, if she be defiled and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her and become bitter, and her belly shall swell and her thigh shall rot; and the woman shall be a curse among her people.
ASV
And when he hath made her drink the water, then it shall come to pass, if she be defiled, and have committed a trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her and become bitter, and her body shall swell, and her thigh shall fall away: and the woman shall be a curse among her people.
AMP
When he has made her drink the water, then it shall come about, that if she has defiled herself and has been unfaithful to her husband, the curse water will go into her and cause bitterness and cause her abdomen to swell and her thigh to waste away, and the woman will become a curse among her people.
AMPC
And when he has made her drink the water, then if she is defiled and has committed a trespass against her husband, the curse water which she drank shall be bitterness and cause her body to swell and her thigh to fall away, and the woman shall be a curse among her people.

 

[Calminian]

Everyone who is approving of sin (abortion, killing, murder, gambling, drinking, adultery, greed, oppressing the poor)
it
is
written that YHWH does not even hear their prayer.

Don't ever believe HE will let them in,

unless as HE said "Unless you all (JESUS to the crowd around HIM) repent, you will all perish as they did when the tower fell on them." .

He would point out he doesn't approve of abortion, he just doesn't think it should be illegal. There are holes in this a mile wide considering abortion is murder, but....

 

[brinny]

(this is just from quik search in biblegateway dot com)
Numbers 5:27
KJ21
And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, if she be defiled and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her and become bitter, and her belly shall swell and her thigh shall rot; and the woman shall be a curse among her people.
ASV
And when he hath made her drink the water, then it shall come to pass, if she be defiled, and have committed a trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her and become bitter, and her body shall swell, and her thigh shall fall away: and the woman shall be a curse among her people.
AMP
When he has made her drink the water, then it shall come about, that if she has defiled herself and has been unfaithful to her husband, the curse water will go into her and cause bitterness and cause her abdomen to swell and her thigh to waste away, and the woman will become a curse among her people.
AMPC
And when he has made her drink the water, then if she is defiled and has committed a trespass against her husband, the curse water which she drank shall be bitterness and cause her body to swell and her thigh to fall away, and the woman shall be a curse among her people.

This a miscarriage.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

This a miscarriage.

Maybe not even a pregnancy:
CJB
When he has made her drink the water, then, if she is unclean and has been unfaithful to her husband, the water that causes the curse will enter her and become bitter, so that her abdomen swells and her private parts shrivel up; and the woman will become an object of cursing among her people.

MSG
“The priest is to write these curses on a scroll and then wash the words off into the bitter water. He then is to give the woman the bitter water that delivers a curse. This water will enter her body and cause acute pain. The priest then is to take from her hands a handful of the Grain-Offering for jealousy, wave it before God, and bring it to the Altar. The priest then is to take a handful of the Grain-Offering, using it as an exposure-offering, and burn it on the Altar; after this he is to make her drink the water. If she has defiled herself in being unfaithful to her husband, when she drinks the water that delivers a curse, it will enter her body and cause acute pain; her belly will swell and her womb shrivel. She will be cursed among her people. But if she has not defiled herself and is innocent of impurity, her name will be cleared and she will be able to have children.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

He would point out he doesn't approve of abortion, he just doesn't think it should be illegal. There are holes in this a mile wide considering abortion is murder, but....

This doesn't make sense ....
(i.e. who is "He" and "he" , etc .... )

 

[webslave]

I find it absurd that some of us believe that persecuting those without religion and are pro-choice is OK. Not choosing abortion if your religion forbids it is a good example of religious freedom, but taking it a step further and thumping your beliefs on the rest of the population is not OK (and the fact that most of us live in secular states, where the church shouldn't play any role in political decision making). Granted, if you think fertilized eggs are humans but refugee kids are not, then you can't present your argument as religious.

Also, if you want to protect life, then you should ban both abortion and capital punishment, something shown by the sheer hypocrisy of some of the people on this board.

 

[redleghunter]

Should Christians be OK with legalized abortion?

Perhaps the question should be:

Is God?

Precisely. And what is revealed from God in the Holy Scriptures and witnessed in the early church says No. Abortion is murder.

 

[redleghunter]

I find it absurd that some of us believe that persecuting those without religion and are pro-choice is OK. Not choosing abortion if your religion forbids it is a good example of religious freedom, but taking it a step further and thumping your beliefs on the rest of the population is not OK (and the fact that most of us live in secular states, where the church shouldn't play any role in political decision making). Granted, if you think fertilized eggs are humans but refugee kids are not, then you can't present your argument as religious.

Also, if you want to protect life, then you should ban both abortion and capital punishment, something shown by the sheer hypocrisy of some of the people on this board.

Thou shalt not murder is fungible?

 

[brinny]

Precisely. And what is revealed from God in the Holy Scriptures and witnessed in the early church says No. Abortion is murder.

Amen.

 

[RDKirk]

Precisely. And what is revealed from God in the Holy Scriptures and witnessed in the early church says No. Abortion is murder.

So why are 70% of abortions in the US done by Christians? How can we know what the pagans are doing with that huge log in our eyes? What does the Church in America know about righteousness when it does nothing righteous?

 

[Armoured]

Gambling and drinking are not wrong. Drunkenness is wrong but not illegal unless a person is drinking in public or driving while drunk because in those cases he puts others in harm's way.



Abortion should be illegal, not because it's a sin, but because it harms an innocent person who has a right to live and we need to protect children from evil people who want to kill them. Sane people acknowledge abortion is a sin and I believe it is illegal in every state after a certain number of weeks after conception. If a 30 week old person has a right to live why not a 20 week old person? It doesn't make sense and there's no scientific evidence that killing a 20 week old is any different than killing a 30 week old child. It's only legal because immoral women would rather kill their child than be inconvenienced by having to carry and deliver baby.

A foetus isn't a person.

 

[Armoured]

He would point out he doesn't approve of abortion, he just doesn't think it should be illegal. There are holes in this a mile wide considering abortion is murder, but....

Abortion is never murder where it's legal. By very definition.