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Should a girl ask a guy to "hang out"?

Discussion in 'Courting Couples' started by sweetmercy, Mar 22, 2005.

  1. Jon_

    Jon_ Senior Veteran

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    On the contrary, I'm very much a proponent of modern cosmology and scientific method. Note the reference to the Big Bang Theory in my post a couple back (talking about how the sun gave life to the earth). I know full and well the earth revolves around the sun; however, I also know full and well that the Bible is correct on all matters, and that our own understanding of the cosmos and our existence here is finite. It is us that should conform our limited knowledge to the Bible, not the Bible to postmodern humanisitic ideals.

    I'm not sure how I can answer that charge because the cultural interpretation I'm using is that of the Bible itself.

    You can't contemplate the Bible with an open mind. We're all biased. We're all born into a culture, into a society, into an ancestry, into a background that we have no control over. The only one who can truly view the Bible with an open mind is God, who, of course, inspired its creation. The rules of exegesis are all that we have to apply to Scripture, and even those are man-made, so they could still be errant.

    In addition to these, God has also bestowed upon us his general revelation, which is all of creation and how it functions. The general revelation is not above Scripture. Instead, the two are in complete harmony with each other. I stand by the assertion that God, in his infinite wisdom, gave to man the responsibility of initiation, and woman the responsibility of reciprocation. This view does not conflict with Scripture, indeed it is supported by it, though not overtly.

    The Bible does not address the initiation issue directly--I believe--because it wasn't an issue back then. The modern feminist movement has largely decimated the system by which men and women were conducted in union over the past 6000 years. The Bible could not have been written to address an issue that only recently came to exist. Some Scriptures can be applied to the problem (Gen. 3:16, 1 Tim. 2:12, 1 Cor. 11:8-9, Eph. 5:22-33), though. These deal directly with the relationship between and man and woman--man and wife--but should we somehow forsake the roles they create by reversing them?

    To claim that male dominance is cultural and not biblical is to be in error. Scripture teaches and exhorts male dominance over women. In light of this, it seems clear the modern campaign of emasculation is a product of unrighteousness.

    I don't think you do appreciate it...

    I haven't answered them all, but I certainly have answered some. (I'll make another post in response to the others).

    You'd like to think so, wouldn't you? :D
     
  2. Jon_

    Jon_ Senior Veteran

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    Elliot didn't cite the source, and my searches on Google came up negative, although I did find another person attributing it to Lewis. It doesn't lack backing when you parallel it with God as the bridegroom and his elect as the bride, though. God is the creator (the sun in the illustration), and we are the creation (the earth in the illustration). Illustrations are just that: illustrative. They're not meant to be taken literally.

    I'm sorry, I can't identify an argument in this.

    Do you want a full run down on the Big Bang and the formation of the universe? Forgive me if I appeal to background knowledge here. This simple fact is taught in High School science classes throughout the nation. If you insist, I'll try to find something in one of my old textbooks for you, but I have a feeling you're just being finicky on this point.

    Nope. Now you're putting words into my mouth. Like I said, the Sun/Earth illustration is based upon the dynamics of God's husbandry over his elect. Just as Christ is the head of the man is the head of the woman (1 Cor. 11:3).

    Loaded and rhetorical. My assertion has consistently been that masculinity and initiation are inseperable.

    Characteristics don't use gender-biased pronouns in modern language, although they might have in Hebrew. The burden of proof rests with you on that.

    I asked if it was erroneous, not dangerous. Additionally, I never suggested that any quality is exclusively male or female. My stance would be the quality of a quality is masculine or feminine. In fact, I gave an example of a man harnessing his femininity to care for his children. Women, intrinsically, in creation, possess a higher disposition for this activity than men. Their child-rearing quality is of higher quality than males'.

    I'm on the fence about your second statement. In many ways I agree with you. Certain masculine qualities might be necessary for a woman, depending on the circumstances. I don't think there's anything wrong with a woman adapting to her situation in order to fulfill God's will for her life; however, the rejection of her femininity, or the pursuit of masculinity for its own sake, I say is dangerous. It's dangerous because it's in direct opposition to the way she was created by God. The same is true for men, so don't think I'm being prejudice.

    Ok. Give me a day, or two, though. I'm pretty busy this weekend.

    Why what? I sorry, but I don't understand which part you take issue with.

    Being called and being helped are two quite different things. Men and women help each other through relationship issues all the time. It's altogether something else to be romantically involved--even more so to be wed.

    Aw, come on, now. Cultural? It's physical!

    I'm going to have to call in your source on the "some asian ones." My own studies of asian cultures put the women far beneath the men. Many asian cultures exemplify the submission required in the Bible. Take the Japanese Geisha, for example: quiet, demure, accommodating, entertaining, supportive, submissive.

    I suppose that depends on how we define sex, but I think that might be getting a bit off-topic, and a little too detailed for this particular forum. We should probably just let this fall by the wayside.

    Ok, squishing, then, and gentle too.

    My stance is why appeal to fallible human understanding when we have God's Word as the perfect example. Additionally, many anthropological and psychological sources would assert western culture is most heavily influenced by Judeo-Christian ethics, which are, of course, founded in the Bible. But, you're going to want a source for that, too. I must admit that you are certainly giving me a work out. ;)
     
  3. InTheFlame

    InTheFlame Guest

    :D We can let it all drop if you prefer (the OP is probably a little overwhelmed!). I won't take it as a sign of weakness ;). My main reason for arguing this was to firstly see what lay behind your opinions, and also to help others actually think through these things, instead of taking what either you or I say, as fact.
     
  4. Southern Cross

    Southern Cross Conservative Republican Hippy People Shooter

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    Hmmmm... let me think... ok, I've got it. Ignore Jon and ask the guy out ;) .

    Some guys pick up on the signals but they just aren't sure how to ask a girl out. Sometimes you can have the most confident guy in the world, and he pretty much just loses it inside when he's around a woman he likes. It might be taking him a while to work up his courage. It's kinda like stepping across the line into the twighlight zone if they aren't used to dating... and all it really comes down to is asking a simple question: "Can I take you out to dinner this weekend?".

    Just keep in mind that for some guys, the difficulty in asking that question is only superceded by, "Will you marry me?". Oh, wait, maybe its asking your father for permission to marry you. Seriously, some guys just have the toughest time breaking the ice, but then they're fine after that!

    Now if he's some schmoe who won't take the lead in a relationship, you will find out over time. It will become very clear to you. And that's what becoming friends with someone and/or dating them is all about. If they're not what you want, you drop the relationship.

    So go ahead and ask the man out. What's the worst he can say? No?
     
  5. Cherub8

    Cherub8 Soli Deo Gloria

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    I think we're missing a key element here. What about this young man asking permission of the girl's father before becoming romantically involved? If she is the one initiating, how's that supposed to play out? And what about courtship? Perhaps my questions shed some light on why I believe the man should be the initiator.

    God bless
     
  6. Southern Cross

    Southern Cross Conservative Republican Hippy People Shooter

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    Is going out to hang out courtship? Is there a proper requirement to ask a father's permission before visiting a coffee house to chat? She's 23 years old. BTW, I do agree with the whole courtship thing, but my goodness, it's a bit early for that.

    I think there are clearly two perspectives on this thread:
    A. The OP just wants to get to know the guy better outside of the gym/church environment with no plans to immediately start exchanging sloppy kisses or even hold hands
    B. She wants to get seriously involved with the guy.

    I'm sticking with A. If it gets anymore serious, then it goes into some type of mutually acceptable courtship mode with accountability.

    OP. Just go talk to the guy. All these silly rules. If you're not violating God's plan for your life, and you're not doing anything that's sinful or dragging you down, you have a lot of freedom to do as you choose. There's nothing worng with a fun date, if you even want to call it a fun date.

    Or maybe even get together with a group of friends so there is no pressure. Invite him out with couple of your friends for pizza or something.
     
  7. Jon_

    Jon_ Senior Veteran

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    Certainly no harm in that. Be blessed, sister.

    Happy Easter!
     
  8. Cherub8

    Cherub8 Soli Deo Gloria

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    My point was that, in my view, they shouldn't be dating until there is a solid foundation of friendship. Courtship is to be built on friendship. Dating is built on physical attraction alone, which is why it's inherently unstable. If she just wants to get to know him better, then I would suggest an activity with others.
     
  9. TheDag

    TheDag I don't like titles

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    Cherub I think you will find women aren't as motivated by physical attraction as males are. So dating wouldn't be based on physical attraction alone. Certainly there may be some women like that but they would most likely be the minority.

    On what bible passages are these required? My understanding is it was a cultural requirement expected by society.
     
  10. Sascha Fitzpatrick

    Sascha Fitzpatrick New Member

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    From the way the OP first posted, I'd say she just wants to get to know him a bit better - to SEE if he's the kind of man that would be good company.

    In that case, I see no harm with her seeing if he wants to see a movie, or go out to mini golf or something - something that's out of a 'regular' situation, and where they can actually have decent conversation (something that can be very hard to do in church, where everyone can interrupt you, or in a gym where you're trying to work out, and talk at the same time!).

    Hon, go for it. It's not like you're proposing a serious relationship here to him or anything - it's just a foundational 'getting to know you' situation.

    Seriously - are you going to sin by wanting to get to know someone better? YEAH RIGHT! Stop thinking about 'man's rules' and what we all think, and do what needs to be done.

    You want to get to know this guy better? Get to know him better! :)

    I dare say he'll be happy you've sought to spend time with him - I don't know many guys who get offended if a girl asks them to a movie or coffee! :)

    Enjoy your new friendship :)

    Sasch
     
  11. Cherub8

    Cherub8 Soli Deo Gloria

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    edit....never mind
     
  12. Dicky

    Dicky New Member

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    i would have liked it if girls asked me out when i was still single ..... come to think of it, it would be flattering if they still asked me out :)

    [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]
     
  13. sweetmercy

    sweetmercy Guest

    I am SO glad this thread is back on topic! It went off on a tangent that I totally didn't expect ;) That's okay, though, those guys had a good debate going on :)

    I think I will just ask him to coffee. Not a date, just a hang-out time. Thanks for all your replies, and I'll let y'all know how it goes!
    Jen
     
  14. Cherub8

    Cherub8 Soli Deo Gloria

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    That is an excellent approach. :) God bless
     
  15. sweetmercy

    sweetmercy Guest

     
  16. Cherub8

    Cherub8 Soli Deo Gloria

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    I remember reading about something like this. The guy asked the girl's dad, who wasn't a Christian, and the dad thought it was odd, but at least the guy could then pursue the girl with a clean conscience. And I'm sure the girl understood, because she, too, believed that's how it should be done. Know what I'm saying? At the very least, it's a way of earning respect and developing trust with the parents.
     
  17. Sascha Fitzpatrick

    Sascha Fitzpatrick New Member

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    One of my friends normally says that if she had been still living at her father's place, and he'd have been a Christian, then it would have been understandable for her now-husband to have asked her dad's permission - first to date, and then to propose.

    But her father, as a number of fathers also would react (my biological father would be included here), would probably think the young man was very weak and far too sheltered for his daughter, if the young man believed he had to ask the father for permission.

    B didn't ask my parents permission to date me either the first or this time (and my stepfather and mother would have been very confused as to why, if he did), but they expressed their approval of him, about 2 weeks before we started dating again, without knowing we'd been thinking about dating again for 5 or so months.

    The reason I didn't tell them we were considering it, was because I knew my mum loved B as a son all ready, and it would have been really hard on her if I'd said 'we might date again', and it ended up that he didn't want to be with me.

    Sasch
     
  18. Silver Speak

    Silver Speak Guest

     
  19. Jon_

    Jon_ Senior Veteran

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  20. Cherub8

    Cherub8 Soli Deo Gloria

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    In my view, that is the only Biblical way to initiate. (Consider Jacob, Leah, Rachel, et al.) There are exceptions as Sascha pointed out, but the key point here is developing trust and respect between the suitor and the girl's parents. Eh, call me old fashioned.

    Personally, I wouldn't even consider initiating before I know her parents. Again, there are exceptions, such as long distances, but for many practical reasons it's a general rule I'd try to follow.

    God bless
     
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