Seton Hall University Priest Claims He Was Fired for Supporting LGBT Rights on Facebook

Fish and Bread

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Link:

http://www.people.com/article/seton-hall-minister-warren-hall-claimed-fired-lgbt-rights

This Archbishop has a history. To sum up, sexual abuse of children by priests is fine with Archbishop Myers, and he'll shield and protect and defend you and transfer you around to abuse more children, but if a good priest who does not abuse children makes a tweet favoring gay rights, he's removed from ministry.

I wonder if Seton Hall would consider cutting the Archbishop out of the decision making for this post and just hiring this validly ordained Roman Catholic priest to run their campus ministry regardless of what their child abuser shielding Archbishop says. To me a guy who enables the abuse of children in that way has no moral authority. Hearing that Archbishop Myers is ousting a priest for a positive tweet about gays and lesbians after Myers shielded and defended sexual abusers or children is outrageous.

It's almost as outrageous as the fact that Archbishop Myers is still allowed to have a position of authority in the Church in the first place.

Maybe Father Warren should be ordained and installed as the bishop of Newark and Archbishop Myers can do some prison ministry from the jail cell where he should be spending his days and nights.
 
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Fish and Bread

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How this Archbishop can see the actual sexual abuse of children as a non-fire-able offense for priests, but a tweet supporting gay rights as meriting removal of a popular priest from his ministry is beyond me. There is a corruption in the Church hierarchy.
 
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<< if a good priest who does not abuse children makes a tweet favoring gay rights, he's removed from ministry. >>

A "good priest" does not promote "gay rights." (ie: homosexual marriage)

A "good priest" submits to and promotes the teaching of the Church which does not call blessed what God has declared an abomination which will prevent the practitioner from entering the kingdom of heaven.

The archbishop's failure to properly deal with a pedophile priest is another topic.

As a good Catholic. I assume that you are praying for him.
 
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Fish and Bread

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A "good priest" does not promote "gay rights." (ie: homosexual marriage)

A "good priest" submits to and promotes the teaching of the Church which does not call blessed what God has declared an abomination which will prevent the practitioner from entering the kingdom of heaven.

The archbishop's failure to properly deal with a pedophile priest is another topic.

To address to the last last line first, I think these subjects are relevant to each other in this case. A bishop who enables those who harm children to harm children more, and fights to keep pedophile priests in the priesthood and then goes out and fires a priest for urging people not to hate homosexuals, has a mixed up set of priorities. Jesus put a high value on the welfare of children, and never uttered a word about gays that is recorded anywhere.

The teaching of the Roman church may not be what Father Warren and I might wish it was, but it is also not that we should hate homosexuals. The priest's tweet said "No H8", not "I'm for gay marriage". The catechism says gays should be treated with "respect, sensitivity, and compassion". This story has evolved since this thread was started months ago, but certainly at the time we began discussing this, what the priest had tweeted was not in contrast to what Rome has said on this issue.

I am not sure what the teaching of the Eastern Orthodox Church is on this subject, but I would imagine that you do not teach your parishioners to hate gays either, right, Father? In the words of the savior: "Hate the sin, not the sinner", yes?

I'll admit, I am to the left of the official teachings of both of these venerable churches on this issue. I believe in love and equality for people in consensual relationships, whether gay or straight. However, simply speaking out against hatred of gays and lesbians is not to the left of either church. All churches in the Apostolic tradition teach against hate, as Christ did, don't they?
 
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<< To address to the last last line first, I think these subjects are relevant to each other in this case. >>

They are not the same issue.
They are two different cases of the errors of two different men which occurred at two different times and at two different locations.
Given those distinctions, they cannot possibly be the same issue.

<<A bishop who enables those who harm children to harm children more, and fights to keep pedophile priests in the priesthood and then goes out and fires a priest for urging people not to hate homosexuals, has a mixed up set of priorities.>>

That is an issue with one of the two men.

And the priest was not "urging people not to hate homosexuals" which is 100% in harmony with the teaching of the Catholic church. He was promoting alleged "gay rights" including the right for practicing homosexuals to enter into the blessed state of matrimony. That is 100% contrary to the teachings of the Catholic church. By his actions, the priest promoted sin which leads to death. The Bishop's action was appropriate.

The Bishop's failure to deal with the pedophile is separate issue.

<< Jesus put a high value on the welfare of children, and never uttered a word about gays that is recorded anywhere. >>

You are wrong. Jesus said, "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled." (Mat 5:18) The definition of homosexual acts as a sin worthy of death is explicitly defined in the Law.

<< The teaching of the Roman church may not be what Father Warren and I might wish it was, but it is also not that we should hate homosexuals. >>

What you and Father Warred wish is not relevant.
Promoting sin which would lead to people being condemned to hell IS an act of hatred no matter how warm and fuzzy it feels.

<< The priest's tweet said "No H8", not "I'm for gay marriage". The catechism says gays should be treated with "respect, sensitivity, and compassion". This story has evolved since this thread was started months ago, but certainly at the time we began discussing this, what the priest had tweeted was not in contrast to what Rome has said on this issue.>>

Did the tweet simply say "No H8" without reference to any other ongoing conversation.? Was it said in a vacuum? Of course not. By removing the two word tweet from its context you misrepresent its ultimate meaning. It was not simply a message encouraging people to "Love your neighbor as yourself." It was the advocacy of behavior which is specifically defined as detestable by scripture and condemned by the Church which appropriately brought about his dismissal.

According to the article linked above, "Reverend Warren Hall, a Catholic priest who ministered Seton Hall University sports teams, is claiming he's been fired for publicly supporting LGBT rights on Facebook."

Fr. Warren's claim is that he was "publicly supporting LGBT rights on Facebook." To say that is simply a single tweet of "No H8" is disingenuous.

<<I am not sure what the teaching of the Eastern Orthodox Church is on this subject, but I would imagine that you do not teach your parishioners to hate gays either, right, Father? In the words of the savior: "Hate the sin, not the sinner", yes?>>

Again, it was not that Fr. Warren was preaching love for all mankind; he was endorsing and promoting so-called "gay rights" which is the legitimizing of sin leading to death.

<< I'll admit, I am to the left of the official teachings of both of these venerable churches on this issue. I believe in love and equality for people in consensual relationships, whether gay or straight.>>

Then you call blessed what God has called accursed. That is heresy.

<< However, simply speaking out against hatred of gays and lesbians is not to the left of either church. All churches in the Apostolic tradition teach against hate, as Christ did, don't they? >>

They certainly did and do. And that is NOT the issue. That is how you have distorted the issue to make it appear more palatable and even reasonable. But, under no circumstances, is encouraging people to continue in sin which will lead them to hell ever anything but hateful. What you propose is no different from encouraging people to continue to be pedophiles or drunkards or thieves or liars. All those sins lead to an eternity separated from God. I do not "love" a thief, or a drunkard, or an pedophile or a homosexual by condoning, supporting, encouraging and enabling his/her behavior.

Luke 17:1-2 Jesus said to his disciples: “Things that cause people to stumble are bound to come, but woe to anyone through whom they come. It would be better for them to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around their neck than to cause one of these little ones to stumble."

Jesus is talking to those who want to call themselves "Christian" but also encourage the deadly sin of homosexual acts. That is what you are doing.

Please believe the scripture and the teaching of the Church rather than the tyranny or your own reasoning.

Proverbs 14:12; 16:25

There is a way that seems right to a man,
But its end is the way of death.
 
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Albion

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I don't see much of an issue here. We do not know the details--at least not from this link and that publication. However, if this priest were to openly contradict his church's teachings on doctrinal or moral issues, especially in the position of an educator, of course he is in jeopardy of being dismissed and his bishop is completely entitled to do that. If any onlooker doesn't like it, he should try a different denomination with a different polity. Simple.
 
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Rhamiel

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we are called to love our enemies

hate the sin, love the sinner
F&B, do you love Archbishop Myers?

in the disrespectful way you talked about him, it seems like you set him up as a kind of enemy
love is not a feeling
it is an act of will
it is seeking the good of the other person
 
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Fish and Bread

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we are called to love our enemies

hate the sin, love the sinner
F&B, do you love Archbishop Myers?

in the disrespectful way you talked about him, it seems like you set him up as a kind of enemy
love is not a feeling
it is an act of will
it is seeking the good of the other person

I think the Archbishop's way of dealing with priests with a history of abusing children should disqualify him from heading a diocese or being in a position where he oversees people who deal with children. The most recent incident on that score came within the last few years, even after Cardinal Law had been recalled to Rome, new guidelines had been issued for handling of pedophile priests, etc.. I think everyone deserves a chance at redemption, but I wouldn't necessarily hire someone with a history of embezzling as my accountant- and what happened with children under his watch is of course much more serious than that. Sometimes redemption happens in a different role in life.

He lacks the moral authority to lead. Whatever you think of Father Warren, Bishop Myers' decisions about how to handle other priests make it hard to consider him a credible arbiter. This isn't the guy who should be making these calls anymore. And to come down so softly on priests who sexually abuse children and then come down so hard on a priest who seems to have endorsed some sort of gay and lesbian rights in a vague way at the time of his removal strikes me as incongruous.

Do I hate Bishop Myers? No, I don't. Do I hope he goes to heaven? Yes, I do, I hope everyone goes to heaven. But I think this guy is an accessory to some pretty unspeakable crimes against innocent children and so I do not respect him as a spiritual leader. He should have resigned. I don't wish ill on his Excellency on a personal level, I just think he should be the one removed from his post and who's future as a cleryperson should be in doubt, not Father Warren. Maybe it's not an either/or, but if Father Warren should go, it should have been someone else making the call, not Bishop Myers.

I'm sorry if that seems harsh, but I really feel bad for the children. Bishop Myers could live a nice comfortable life in retirement and that would be fine with me, I am not saying toss him in some sort of dungeon, but continuing in this job should not have been an option for him.
 
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Rhamiel

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well despite the failings of this bishop
he is the legitimate authority in this situation

if he broke the law or acted in an irresponsible manner, he will have to answer for that

but his actions here seem reasonable
the priest publically supported something that is wrong

I do not say it is wrong based on my personal opinion, what does that matter?
I say it is wrong based on the teachings of the Church
 
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Fish and Bread

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Father, when you say supporting gay rights is "legitimizing sin leading to death", do you include in that supporting antibullying campaigns and nondiscrimination in hiring when it comes to gays? Because those are two very prominent issues that gay and lesbian groups are spotlighting and spending a lot of money on, and which are included under the umbrella of gay rights. Surely gays have the right to be treated with dignity as children in the schoolyard and as adults seeking employment, don't they? What if that was what this priest was embracing? His tweets prior to his removal didn't tell people to go have gay sex, and he wasn't explicitly publically favoring gay marriage to my knowledge.
 
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Albion

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I think the Archbishop's way of dealing with priests with a history of abusing children should disqualify him from heading a diocese or being in a position where he oversees people who deal with children.

...probably a good discussion topic for the Baptist forum. ;)
 
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Fish and Bread

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...probably a good discussion topic for the Baptist forum. ;)

Rome could easily replace bishops who reassign priests who abuse children to new parishes. We don't need a congregational polity, we need episcopal (small e) accountability.
 
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Albion

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Rome could easily replace bishops who reassign priests who abuse children to new parishes. We don't need a congregational polity, we need episcopal (small e) accountability.
I didn't understand the issue to concern a priest who had abused children. I thought it concerned an employee of a school owned and operated by a Catholic archdiocese being let go for publicly opposing church teachings.
 
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mark46

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I didn't understand the issue to concern a priest who had abused children. I thought it concerned an employee of a school owned and operated by a Catholic archdiocese being let go for publicly opposing church teachings.

Cannot you see the irony of a bishop who fires someone for a tweet and refuses to fire or punish pedophiles?
 
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mark46

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I didn't understand the issue to concern a priest who had abused children. I thought it concerned an employee of a school owned and operated by a Catholic archdiocese being let go for publicly opposing church teachings.

Cannot you see the irony of a bishop who fires someone for a tweet and refuses to fire or punish pedophiles?

The covering up of the sexual scandals, and the inappropriate dealing with the offenders (including the bishops and cardinals) is an outrage that continues to haunt the Catholic Church throughout the world,.
 
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mark46

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Link:

http://www.people.com/article/seton-hall-minister-warren-hall-claimed-fired-lgbt-rights

Maybe Father Warren should be ordained and installed as the bishop of Newark and Archbishop Myers can do some prison ministry from the jail cell where he should be spending his days and nights.

1) Yes, the bishop should not be in his post, or in any position of power in the Church. Whether he should be in jail depends on statute of limitations and local law.

2) Seton Hall is directly run by the diocese. The priest who was fired was the Director of Campus Ministries, the Church's direct contact with students including the sports teams. There might be arguments with regard the right of the Church to fire a janitor or even a math teacher for such a morals clause violation. However, this situation is clear. A Director of campus Ministries is a direct representative of the diocese and is a priest of the diocese. The diocese can assign him wherever they wish, with no notice and no reason for doing so. In previous decades, there would be no public discussion. What you seem to be arguing against is the transparency that we have in knowing the reason for the re-assignment of a priest. In the 90's, we were never privy to such knowledge.

3) The juxtaposition of the two issues is indeed instructive. It tells us much about the priorities of the Diocese of Newark.
 
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Albion

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Cannot you see the irony of a bishop who fires someone for a tweet and refuses to fire or punish pedophiles?
Sure, but that's not the issue we're discussing.

And by the way, I apologize to whoever cares for posting on this forum. I didn't realize this was the Liberal Catholics' forum until just a moment ago. I guess seeing both you and Fish and Bread--and Father Jim, too--posting here made me think this was STR or GT. :doh: Or else, well, I don't know.:sorry:
 
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