Senate Makes Permanent Nearly All Provisions of Patriot Act, With a Few Restrictions

[Voegelin]

New York Times
ERIC LICHTBLAU
7/30/05

The Senate voted unanimously on Friday to make permanent virtually all the main provisions of the law known as the USA Patriot Act, after Republican leaders agreed to include additional civil rights safeguards and to forestall any expansion of the government's counterterrorism powers . . .

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/30/politics/30patriot.html

 

[sidiousmax225]

Becareful what you read in a library......

 

[HaloRoundMyHead]

yeah, now they need to make it lawful to intern all muslims

 

[Voegelin]

Why do Democrats campaign against the Patriot Act and then vote for it?

 

[sidiousmax225]

Because if they didn't, it would be proof that they are against America and in league with the terrorists.

 

[Voegelin]

That doesn't' follow as Democrats speak against the Patriotic Act all the time. People notice that more than a vote.

 

[Scholar in training]

It troubles me to think that the issue was voted on shortly after the London blasts. Even the name of the bill is propaganda. What is Washington trying to sell us?

 

[Harpuia]

I believe someone talked about Cheney forcing every member of the Senate to vote for it or he would hold them responsible for the next terrorist attack if it happens.

Someone said that, I know.

 

[jillyjam]

Cheney seems like a brutal leader, every time I hear about him, it's something vicious.

 

[lucid42day]

Why do Democrats campaign against the Patriot Act and then vote for it?

Whenever I see political leaders meet and shake hands on TV, I often try to see who walks away with 9 fingers and who walks away with 11. Hopefully I will be more successful when HDTV rolls around.

 

[lucid42day]

I believe someone talked about Cheney forcing every member of the Senate to vote for it or he would hold them responsible for the next terrorist attack if it happens.

Someone said that, I know.

But is Cheney really in a position to hold anyone responsible for anything? I understand his presidency is a vice, but I don't believe he can put anyone else in one over such a thing.

 

[reverend B]

Because if they didn't, it would be proof that they are against America and in league with the terrorists.

you are not an atheist. you have just chosen america as your god.
the patriot act is one indication that the enemy is winning. by their efforts we have destroyed the economy of our children and given up on some of our cherished ideals. it is yet to be seen what other characteristics of our great experiment will be sacrificed on the altar of safety.
who was it that said, and i paraphrase, that those who are willing to give up their freedom for safety are destined to have neither? i think it was jefferson, but i know it was someone smarter than yours truly.
peace in Christ

 

[Voegelin]

Of course no one can cite one instance of how the Patriot Act has taken away their liberty or the liberty others. It is just something everyone knows. We've lost our civil liberties! Michael Moore, The Nation, Counterpunch and Ward Churchill tell us that so it must be true.

And we've all seen the Ben Franklin quote on the subject a million times.

Same people never complain about the IRS raking people over, the EPA making property worthless, kids being forced into government schools, forced government pensions, property tax increases driving people out of their homes and so on.

 

[sidiousmax225]

That's because a good portion of what the Patriot Act allows are behind the scenes actions. Tapping phones and looking at emails without having to get court orders. Being able to use very intrusive survailence without extensive justification.

 

[everydaypeople]

yeah, now they need to make it lawful to intern all muslims

Are you serious?

 

[reverend B]

Of course no one can cite one instance of how the Patriot Act has taken away their liberty or the liberty others. It is just something everyone knows. We've lost our civil liberties! Michael Moore, The Nation, Counterpunch and Ward Churchill tell us that so it must be true.

And we've all seen the Ben Franklin quote on the subject a million times.

Same people never complain about the IRS raking people over, the EPA making property worthless, kids being forced into government schools, forced government pensions, property tax increases driving people out of their homes and so on.

argument would be more intriguing than invective. just a thought.
before we get on to the other five topics you suggested, lets see if we can make any headway on this one. one at a time my friend, one at a time.
i do thank you for the correction on the quote. i do find franklin so much more in tune with the american psyche than mussolini, don't you?

 

[MalcolmX]

It's a pity how people will write off their rights in the name of security. It's like they're urinating on the Bill of Rights without a care in the world.

 

[HaloRoundMyHead]

The Bill of Rights came much later after the Declaration of Independance and Constitution. It's just something that liberals added on to muddy the waters like Roe vs Wade etc etc. Interment! Interment! Profiling! The enemy is among us! Learn from our brothers in Israel!

 

[mpshiel]

My major concern is this: There is so much power invested in homeland terrorism which is by nature a minor threat (for instance in the last three years how many citizens on US soil died due to terrorist attack? How many from overdoses? From Murder? From Hunger?) and a temporary one, that is unless the name of the US is changing to "Fortress America" - yet what organization, once invested with and used to the extreme lattitudes of power given to them as Homeland Security has for example, is going to just give it back ("sorry, we've more money and agents than we really need, here have some back.")

And after signing away civil or personal liberties in the name of the defence of the nation, who is going to head the drive as the problem subsides to reclaim these liberties - will there be such universal appeal for bills that no one can be picked up without sufficent cause? Or will it be continuously argued as everyone from Columbian paid drug smugglers to the mob gets put under the umbrella of terror that it is a "vital tool in the fight against _____ (fill in the blank)."?

 

[sidiousmax225]

you are not an atheist. you have just chosen america as your god.
the patriot act is one indication that the enemy is winning. by their efforts we have destroyed the economy of our children and given up on some of our cherished ideals. it is yet to be seen what other characteristics of our great experiment will be sacrificed on the altar of safety.
who was it that said, and i paraphrase, that those who are willing to give up their freedom for safety are destined to have neither? i think it was jefferson, but i know it was someone smarter than yours truly.
peace in Christ

Someone needs to repair their sarcasm detector.