Secessionists Raided by Armed Feds

[psalms 91]

So as soon as enough people get it started, you'll happily jump on the bandwagon.... any day now, just wait for it... and say you were with them from day one?

I asked because every time, without fail, I hear "somebody should start a revolution!" It always means "somebody else should start a revolution..."

Nope, why be a sacrifice? It will take many many people in order to even begin to think it will be sucessful. I am one who will definitely be counted but not one to be a sacrifical lamb

 

[Arcangl86]

Actually, that was just one of twenty-seven grievances presented in the Declaration of Independence.

Go ahead and crack open a newspaper and compare the stories with the other twenty-six grievances. You'll find this government doing many of the same things that prompted the Colonies to secede from Great Britain.

Yeah, no. I don't see it.

Which law is that? Are you familiar with the Kentucky and Virginia Resolutions?

The Kentucky and Virginia resolutions have nothing to do with succession. As for the larger issue of nullification, it's not a thing and never has been accepted of as one.

 

[South Bound]

The Kentucky and Virginia resolutions have nothing to do with succession.

I just asked you if you were familiar with it. Doesn't sound like you are.

That's OK. It's not something that's typically taught in school these days.

It's true that the primary issue addressed in the KVR was nullification. However, it was addressed in the context of the sovereignty of states and the right of states to choose whether or not to follow unjust or Unconstitutional laws and to determine their own destiny.

It was so understood to support the right of the states to secede that President James Garfield, said in reference to the War of Northern Aggression, that the resolutions, "contained the germ of nullification and secession, and we are today reaping the fruits". (Knott. "Alexander Hamilton and the Persistence of Myth". p48)"

 

[CaDan]

I just asked you if you were familiar with it. Doesn't sound like you are.

That's OK. It's not something that's typically taught in school these days.

It's true that the primary issue addressed in the KVR was nullification. However, it was addressed in the context of the sovereignty of states and the right of states to choose whether or not to follow unjust or Unconstitutional laws and to determine their own destiny.

It was so understood to support the right of the states to secede that President James Garfield, said in reference to the War of Northern Aggression, that the resolutions, "contained the germ of nullification and secession, and we are today reaping the fruits". (Knott. "Alexander Hamilton and the Persistence of Myth". p48)"

Old Tyme Lulz

 

[CaDan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7CJovhhVq8

 

[Arcangl86]

I just asked you if you were familiar with it. Doesn't sound like you are.

That's OK. It's not something that's typically taught in school these days.

It's true that the primary issue addressed in the KVR was nullification. However, it was addressed in the context of the sovereignty of states and the right of states to choose whether or not to follow unjust or Unconstitutional laws and to determine their own destiny.

It was so understood to support the right of the states to secede that President James Garfield, said in reference to the War of Northern Aggression, that the resolutions, "contained the germ of nullification and secession, and we are today reaping the fruits". (Knott. "Alexander Hamilton and the Persistence of Myth". p48)"

The KVR are not about succession, they are about nullification. I just mentioned that. Yet you are trying to condescend and say I don't know what they are about? How about this. The KVR were pieces of state law, that were actually opposed by the other states in the union at the time. They also are the first attempts at compact theory, which was shot down again and again by the Supreme Court. So yes, I'm familiar with them. More to the point, I know that they have nothing besides some abstract historical value, and furthermore that they have no standing on the discussion if states have the right to succeed or not, as there is no mechanism in the US Constitution allowing it.

 

[South Bound]

The KVR are not about succession, they are about nullification.

I know. I just addressed that. Didn't you read my post?

More to the point, I know that they have nothing besides some abstract historical value

Do you know who wrote them?

and furthermore that they have no standing on the discussion if states have the right to succeed or not

Actually, they do, because they give us a glimpse into the philosophy of the Founders,

as there is no mechanism in the US Constitution allowing it.

I addressed this in a previous post.

Again, if the 10th Amendment says, "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people", and, by your own admission, there is no power delegated to the United States by the Constitution and we see no prohibition of it by the Constitution, then that power must be reserved to the states or to the people.

This is the point Jefferson was making.

 

[Arcangl86]

Do you know who wrote them?

Yes I do. Do you know who objected to them?

Actually, they do, because they give us a glimpse into the philosophy of the Founders,

They give us a glimpse into the philosophy of two of the Founders. I hate it when people appeal to the Founders to justify their own interpretation of the Constitution. It's not like they had a hive mind.

I addressed this in a previous post.

Again, if the 10th Amendment says, "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people", and, by your own admission, there is no power delegated to the United States by the Constitution and we see no prohibition of it by the Constitution, then that power must be reserved to the states or to the people.

This is the point Jefferson was making.

Yes. But succession would effect more then just the State who decided to leave, so it isn't a unilateral decision.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Nope, why be a sacrifice? It will take many many people in order to even begin to think it will be sucessful. I am one who will definitely be counted but not one to be a sacrifical lamb

So, as long as it's a comfortable, convenient revolution, with everyone else taking all the risks, you're in?

And that, my friend, is why I find revolutionary talk to be nothing but hot air. Thank you for once again demonstrating my point.

 

[mafwons]

So, as long as it's a comfortable, convenient revolution, with everyone else taking all the risks, you're in?

And that, my friend, is why I find revolutionary talk to be nothing but hot air. Thank you for once again demonstrating my point.

Dead on, people have no spirit in this country or it would not be in the shape it is in. What people have is warm houses enough food, cars , cable tv, ipads, etc, etc... and giving that up to make somthing better. No no no.