Saved

[CharlesC]

When a person becomes saved, he goes before the church and confesses he is a sinner and acknowledges Jesus is the Son of God. Does God start working in that person, the moment he is Saved?

Than a person becomes baptized by submersion in water and recieves a spirit called the Councilor whom lives in that person. The Councilor is Jesus whom lives in us. If a person does not become baptized, what occures?

 

[Open Heart]

When a person becomes saved, he goes before the church and confesses he is a sinner and acknowledges Jesus is the Son of God. Does God start working in that person, the moment he is Saved?

Than a person becomes baptized by submersion in water and recieves a spirit called the Councilor whom lives in that person. The Councilor is Jesus whom lives in us. If a person does not become baptized, what occures?

God was working in the person before he even got saved.

Baptism, whenever possible, is necessary along with repentance for the forgiveness of sins. "Repent and be baptised, every one of you, for the remission of sins." Acts 2:38. Should a believer REFUSE to be baptized, knowing they should be, they have entered into a state of disobedience and risk rupturing their relationship with God.

 

[ClothedInGrace]

When a person becomes saved, he goes before the church and confesses he is a sinner and acknowledges Jesus is the Son of God. Does God start working in that person, the moment he is Saved?

Than a person becomes baptized by submersion in water and recieves a spirit called the Councilor whom lives in that person. The Councilor is Jesus whom lives in us. If a person does not become baptized, what occures?

We recieve the Holy Spirit the moment we have faith in Jesus Christ. Baptism is simply an act of repentance and a declaration of your faith.

 

[Open Heart]

The Councilor is Jesus whom lives in us

The counselor is the Holy Spirit.

 

[bcbsr]

When a person becomes saved, he goes before the church and confesses he is a sinner and acknowledges Jesus is the Son of God. Does God start working in that person, the moment he is Saved?

Than a person becomes baptized by submersion in water and recieves a spirit called the Councilor whom lives in that person. The Councilor is Jesus whom lives in us. If a person does not become baptized, what occures?

Since salvation is by faith apart from works, one does not have to get wet to get saved. As for receiving the Holy Spirit, consider Cornelius and his household in Acts 10. They received the Holy Spirit prior to getting water baptized.

Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

 

[Ignatius21]

When a person becomes saved, he goes before the church and confesses he is a sinner and acknowledges Jesus is the Son of God. Does God start working in that person, the moment he is Saved?

Than a person becomes baptized by submersion in water and recieves a spirit called the Councilor whom lives in that person. The Councilor is Jesus whom lives in us. If a person does not become baptized, what occures?

The way you've phrased your question presupposes a particular model and understanding of salvation. What do you mean by "becomes saved?" What *is* salvation?

From a fairly ancient point of view (the view you'd generally find expressed among the earliest Fathers of the Church), albeit very oversimplified:

- God is working in a person from before he or she ever confesses faith, as nobody can say "Jesus is Lord" except by the Holy Spirit. Nobody can say exactly or precisely when, where or how God began working in any of us. But he began working IN all of us when the Son took on flesh and united humanity to divinity in his own person

- Baptism is the means by which a person becomes united to Christ in the Church. The idea that baptism is simply a symbol of what has already occurred, or worse, that it is merely an outward profession of seriousness by an individual, is an historically recent phenomenon and unknown to the early church. We are united to Christ in and through his Body, the Church, and this union becomes real in baptism.

- Under "ordinary" circumstances--that is, there isn't something preventing a person from becoming baptized (for instance, in the early church, because they accepted Christ while in prison, and died or were martyred before they could receive baptism)--one could say that No Baptism = No Salvation.

 

[Brother Chris]

When a person becomes saved, he goes before the church and confesses he is a sinner and acknowledges Jesus is the Son of God. Does God start working in that person, the moment he is Saved?

Than a person becomes baptized by submersion in water and recieves a spirit called the Councilor whom lives in that person. The Councilor is Jesus whom lives in us. If a person does not become baptized, what occures?

For a sinner to be saved he must repent of his sins and believe the Gospel. This can happen anywhere and at anytime. He does not have to be water baptized to stay saved or be saved (ex: the thief on the cross), but water baptism is an outward demonstration of the cleansing that has occurred on the inside. It is an act of obedience in demonstrating his union with Christ. If someone refuses to be baptized, then there is a question of why? For the true believer, water baptism isn't a "have to" but it's a "I want to."

 

[Open Heart]

Since salvation is by faith apart from works, one does not have to get wet to get saved

Repent and be baptized, every one of you, for the forgiveness of sins. Acts 2:38
Remember that Baptism is not about what you do for God, but about what God does for you.

 

[Brother Chris]

Repent and be baptized, every one of you, for the forgiveness of sins. Acts 2:38
Remember that Baptism is not about what you do for God, but about what God does for you.

Regardless, water baptism doesn't save.

 

[Open Heart]

Regardless, water baptism doesn't save.

If water baptism means receiving forgiveness, then yes, water baptism saves. Here is another one for you:
"The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us" 1 Peter 3:21

 

[Butch5]

When a person becomes saved, he goes before the church and confesses he is a sinner and acknowledges Jesus is the Son of God. Does God start working in that person, the moment he is Saved?

Than a person becomes baptized by submersion in water and recieves a spirit called the Councilor whom lives in that person. The Councilor is Jesus whom lives in us. If a person does not become baptized, what occures?

One receives the Holy Spirit at baptism when their sins are forgiven.

 

[Brother Chris]

If water baptism means receiving forgiveness, then yes, water baptism saves. Here is another one for you:
"The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us" 1 Peter 3:21

Read the entire verse:
and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also--not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Peter is not referring to water baptism. Water removes dirt from the body, but Peter is saying that this baptism is not with water. It's the baptism of being placed into the body of Christ by the Holy Spirit. Water baptism doesn't save, never has and never will.

 

[Open Heart]

and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also--not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

He is saying that water baptism is not about cleaning your body but about salvation.

 

[Butch5]

Read the entire verse:
and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also--not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Peter is not referring to water baptism. Water removes dirt from the body, but Peter is saying that this baptism is not with water. It's the baptism of being placed into the body of Christ by the Holy Spirit. Water baptism doesn't save, never has and never will.

Actually, he is talking about water. He makes the analogy of Noah and the ark, that they were saved through water. I would suggest his point about the washing of the flesh is that there is more to baptism than simply getting wet. In other words you're not getting a bath. One is supposed to go into the water making an appeal to God with a pure heart.

 

[Job8]

If water baptism means receiving forgiveness, then yes, water baptism saves. Here is another one for you:
"The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us" 1 Peter 3:21

There are a few Scriptures which give the impression that water baptism is essential for salvation. But the overall teaching of Scripture is that sinners are justified (saved) by grace through faith in the Person and finished work of Christ (Acts 16:30,31; Rom 10:8-11; Eph 2:8,9). Because the true Bible teaching on water baptism makes salvation and baptism almost simultaneous, we have verses such as Mk 16:16, Acts 2:38, and 1 Pet 3:21.

So let's see exactly what Peter is telling us (KJV): Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Since Peter is comparing the deliverance of Noah and his family to water baptism, how exactly are they related?
1. Why was Noah saved from destruction? Because he found grace in the eyes of God (Gen 3:8).
2. Did the water save Noah or did the Ark? The Ark
3. Is the Ark a type of Christ? Yes
4. Is the Deluge a type of water baptism? Yes
5. Then what is Peter talking about? Water baptism is "the answer of a good conscience toward God". What exactly does that mean?
(a) The sinner repents and believes on the Lord Jesus Christ
(b) The moment he turns to Christ his sins are forgiven and he is justified (declared righteous) by God's grace
(c) Now the sinner's conscience is free from guilt for past sins
(d) Because the sinner died with Christ and rose again with Him ("by the resurrection of Jesus Christ"), water baptism symbolically confirms that his sins have been forgiven and his guilt has been removed
(e) Because baptism is the first step of Christian obedience, the saint maintains his good conscience by obeying Christ immediately, and being baptised as a believer.

How does this relate to Noah? Noah was in Christ (the Ark), then submerged in water (the Deluge), and then delivered from judgment (Hell) after the water receded. Was Noah already saved by grace? Absolutely. Was he subsequently saved from the Deluge? Absolutely. So did the water save Him, or was it God's grace? Purely God's grace.

 

[Open Heart]

Actually, he is talking about water. He makes the analogy of Noah and the ark, that they were saved through water. I would suggest his point about the washing of the flesh is that there is more to baptism than simply getting wet. In other words you're not getting a bath. One is supposed to go into the water making an appeal to God with a pure heart.

Spot on!

 

[bcbsr]

Actually, he is talking about water. He makes the analogy of Noah and the ark, that they were saved through water. I would suggest his point about the washing of the flesh is that there is more to baptism than simply getting wet. In other words you're not getting a bath. One is supposed to go into the water making an appeal to God with a pure heart.

And thus infant baptism is illegitimate in that infants are making a pledge of a good conscience in baptism. So much for Catholics, Orthodox Christianity, Lutheranism, Presbyteriansim, to name a few.

 

[Open Heart]

And thus infant baptism is illegitimate in that infants are making a pledge of a good conscience in baptism. So much for Catholics, Orthodox Christianity, Lutheranism, Presbyteriansim, to name a few.

Not really. Parents make the pledge on their behalf.

 

[Brother Chris]

There are a few Scriptures which give the impression that water baptism is essential for salvation. But the overall teaching of Scripture is that sinners are justified (saved) by grace through faith in the Person and finished work of Christ (Acts 16:30,31; Rom 10:8-11; Eph 2:8,9). Because the true Bible teaching on water baptism makes salvation and baptism almost simultaneous, we have verses such as Mk 16:16, Acts 2:38, and 1 Pet 3:21.

So let's see exactly what Peter is telling us (KJV): Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Since Peter is comparing the deliverance of Noah and his family to water baptism, how exactly are they related?
1. Why was Noah saved from destruction? Because he found grace in the eyes of God (Gen 3:8).
2. Did the water save Noah or did the Ark? The Ark
3. Is the Ark a type of Christ? Yes
4. Is the Deluge a type of water baptism? Yes
5. Then what is Peter talking about? Water baptism is "the answer of a good conscience toward God". What exactly does that mean?
(a) The sinner repents and believes on the Lord Jesus Christ
(b) The moment he turns to Christ his sins are forgiven and he is justified (declared righteous) by God's grace
(c) Now the sinner's conscience is free from guilt for past sins
(d) Because the sinner died with Christ and rose again with Him ("by the resurrection of Jesus Christ"), water baptism symbolically confirms that his sins have been forgiven and his guilt has been removed
(e) Because baptism is the first step of Christian obedience, the saint maintains his good conscience by obeying Christ immediately, and being baptised as a believer.

How does this relate to Noah? Noah was in Christ (the Ark), then submerged in water (the Deluge), and then delivered from judgment (Hell) after the water receded. Was Noah already saved by grace? Absolutely. Was he subsequently saved from the Deluge? Absolutely. So did the water save Him, or was it God's grace? Purely God's grace.

Exactly. Good post. Water baptism never saved anyone, and never will. Alot of unsaved professing Christians get baptized and are not saved.

 

[Open Heart]

Water baptism never saved anyone,

Just not scriptural. Sorry.