PrincetonGuy

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The law Paul references in Rom. 2:13 is not the Sinai code. You can only become a Christian by the faith of obeying that law Paul is referencing.
These statements not only explicitly contradict Baptist theology—they explicitly contradict Christian theology. Paul introduces the concept of the Law in Rom. 2:12, and continues to write of the same concept in v. 13. This concept is known to the Jewish people by the Hebrew word “torah,” and is “the body of commandments given by God through Moses to the people of Israel at Mt. Sinai.”* In Christian theology, the Law is the antithesis of the grace of God. The Law is the power of sin (1 Cor. 15:56); the grace of God is the dynamic action of God by and through which He saves us from sin and its consequences through faith, and empowers us to serve Him.


*Moo, Douglas J. The Epistle to the Romans. The New International Commentary on the New Testament series. Grand Rapids: 1996; p. 145.
 
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BrokenWarrior

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What is the sin they had the faith to repent of in order to be added to the church Jesus Christ is head of? "Give to the one who asks you." JC If you won't obey Him you ain't one of His flock. Comprenda?

All manner of sin...

Even breaking one Law means you have broken them all.

A thief no better then a murderer.
A coveter no better then a adulterer.

Because of your transgression of the Lord's Law, you deserve punishment. That punishment being eternity in Hell.

But God is as Loving as He is Righteous.

He came down in the form of the Man Jesus Of Nazareth. Lived a sinless life to be The Blameless Sacrifice, died to be our Attonement,and was then Ressurected to be our Hope.

He has the only thing good enough to pay off the debt of your sins...His blood.

God can now legally,in His eyes,dismiss your case. He can pardon you.

Jesus says He will,all you have to do is trust that He will.

Doing so,you become reborn,and so are given a new nature through the Holy Spirit. In which,now,AFTER Salvation,you can successfully please The Lord by obeying Him.

God Bless!
-His Servant
 
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Theodore A. Jones

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These statements not only explicitly contradict Baptist theology—they explicitly contradict Christian theology. Paul introduces the concept of the Law in Rom. 2:12, and continues to write of the same concept in v. 13. This concept is known to the Jewish people by the Hebrew word “torah,” and is “the body of commandments given by God through Moses to the people of Israel at Mt. Sinai.”* In Christian theology, the Law is the antithesis of the grace of God. The Law is the power of sin (1 Cor. 15:56); the grace of God is the dynamic action of God by and through which He saves us from sin and its consequences through faith, and empowers us to serve Him.


*Moo, Douglas J. The Epistle to the Romans. The New International Commentary on the New Testament series. Grand Rapids: 1996; p. 145.
That law Paul references is not Torah. If it were then by the faith of obeying Torah a person would be declared righteous by God. BTW there has never as yet been a commentary that is worth the paper it is printed on.
 
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Theodore A. Jones

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All manner of sin...

Even breaking one Law means you have broken them all.

A thief no better then a murderer.
A coveter no better then a adulterer.

Because of your transgression of the Lord's Law, you deserve punishment. That punishment being eternity in Hell.

But God is as Loving as He is Righteous.

He came down in the form of the Man Jesus Of Nazareth. Lived a sinless life to be the blameless sacrifice, died to be our attonement,and was then Ressurected to be our Hope.

He has the only thing good enough to pay off the debt of your sins...his blood.

God can now legally,in His eyes,dismiss your case. He can pardon you.

Jesus says He will,all you have to do is trust that He will.

Doing so,you become reborn,and so are given a new nature through the Holy Spirit. In which,now,AFTER Salvation,you can successfully please The Lord by obeying Him.

God Bless!
-His Servant
 
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Theodore A. Jones

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All manner of sin...

Even breaking one Law means you have broken them all.

A thief no better then a murderer.
A coveter no better then a adulterer.

Because of your transgression of the Lord's Law, you deserve punishment. That punishment being eternity in Hell.

But God is as Loving as He is Righteous.

He came down in the form of the Man Jesus Of Nazareth. Lived a sinless life to be the blameless sacrifice, died to be our attonement,and was then Ressurected to be our Hope.

He has the only thing good enough to pay off the debt of your sins...his blood.

God can now legally,in His eyes,dismiss your case. He can pardon you.

Jesus says He will,all you have to do is trust that He will.

Doing so,you become reborn,and so are given a new nature through the Holy Spirit. In which,now,AFTER Salvation,you can successfully please The Lord by obeying Him.

God Bless!
-His Servant
No man's murder is a direct benefit.
 
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BrokenWarrior

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No man's murder is a direct benefit.

And so again I say unto you:

"Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,"-1 Peter 1:3

"God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood--to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished"- Romans 3:25

"If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied."-1 Corinthians 15:19

Seek Truth,
-His Servant
 
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Theodore A. Jones

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And so again I say unto you:

"Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,"-1 Peter 1:3

"God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood--to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished"- Romans 3:25

"If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied."-1 Corinthians 15:19

Seek Truth,
-His Servant
No man's murder is a direct benefit. For if it were salvation would be universal, but it isn't. Only a few ever find the gate. "Make every effort to enter through the gate."
 
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BrokenWarrior

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No man's murder is a direct benefit. For if it were salvation would be universal, but it isn't. Only a few ever find the gate. "Make every effort to enter through the gate."

EVERY single person benefits...

Are you not reading what i posted??

Romans 3:25 sums it all in a nutshell.

Scripture says the without Bloodshed,there is NO remission of sins.

This is God saying this bro. If you wanna argue it,I suggest you take it up with Him...

He makes the rules,I'm just a messanger...

We need payment of our sins.

He provided it.

That's right,few find the gate.

For many are as the Pharisees where. Self-righteous,self-justifying. Loving the praise of man over the praise of God. Believing that they can be "Good enough" by following the Law to achieve attonement. But God says they cant!

For everyone falls short of the Glory of God.

But God knows this,and He STILL loves us!

He gave us His free gift,through the Blood of Jesus. What Love indeed!

-His Servant
 
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twin1954

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No, it most certainly does not!
OK then lets deal with the Scriptures. You know that I can match you Scripture for Scripture. But I will warn you that if you try to overwhelm me with a whole bunch at a time I will not bother. I have little time or inclination to waste my time with a whole bunch of passages that have nothing to do with the subject at hand. I will deal with one or two passages at a time.



This is nothing but a hateful, malicious lie without even an attempt to document it!
It is easy to claim hate and maliciousness but proving it is more than you are capable of. I have no hate or malicious intent in my response to you. Your imagination has conjured it. I will defend the truth of God according to the Scriptures but you cast a spurious accusation in order to deflect from the true issue. Starting from such a weak point only undermines your argument.



Even a dog knows another dog when he sees one.
I fail to see the relevance of this statement.



If you were even vaguely familiar with Roman Catholic theology you would know for an incontrovertible fact that your statement is utterly false.
On the contrary I am very familiar with RCC doctrine. That is why I can make the statement. Remember that you are not dealing with a novice. :)



Men and women who are familiar with Baptist theology know that my theology is Baptist.
And that make what difference? The fact that others may agree with you who call themselves Baptist has nothing to do with whether it is truth or not. I think that the reaction you so very often receive here tells us much of how Baptist you are.



Revelation 21:8 “But as for the cowardly, the faithless, {Or [the unbelieving]} the polluted, the murderers, the fornicators, the sorcerers, the idolaters, and all liars, their place will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” (NRSV)
Again I fail to see the relevance of this to our discussion.



Did Paul and the other contributors to the New Testament, with the single exception of James, deceive us by leaving out the word ‘alone’ in their description of how we are saved?
No but it is very clearly implied in their writings. They did not intend to deceive but clearly made it plain that salvation is in Christ alone by faith alone. You, on the other hand, do deceive with a subtle twist of words to make it look as though you believe that salvation is by grace alone by faith alone. That is exactly the RCC method of twisting truth to suit its theology and shape its doctrine. It is conceived to appeal to the unthinking and ignorant. It is a deception that snares the natural man easily.

James 2:24. You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. (NRSV)
James and Paul are not at odds and you know it. James is simply speaking of those works that are a fruit of faith not an addition to it. Your faith plus works dogma, which is the RCC dogma, is false and twists truth to your own ends.



As I posted above,

The distinguished Jesuit theologian Robert Francis Romulus Bellarmine (1542-1621) listed eight earlier authors who used the adverb. Joseph A. Fitzmyer, a contemporary Roman Catholic scholar, in his monumental commentary on the Greek text of Paul’s Epistle to the Romans, listed two more, Theodoret and Thomas Aquinas. The doctrine of justification by faith alone was not a spurious doctrine introduced into the Church by Martin Luther—it has been taught throughout the history of the Church.​

The Saint Joseph Edition of the New American Bible (1971) has the following note on Rom. 3:21-31,

The justice of God is his mercy whereby he declares guilty man innocent and makes him so. He does this, not as a result of the law, but apart from it (v 21), not because of any merit of man, but through forgiveness of his sins (v 24) in virtue of the redemption wrought in Christ Jesus for all who believe (22-24f), No man can boast of his own holiness, since it is God’s free gift (27), both to the Jew who practices circumcision out of faith, and to the Gentile who accepts faith without the Old Testament religious culture symbolized by circumcision (29f).​

The Saint Joseph Edition of the New American Bible with the second edition of the New Testament (1986) has the following note on Rom. 3:21-31,

These verses provide a clear statement of Paul’s “gospel,” i.e., the principle of justification by faith in Christ. God has found a means of rescuing humanity from its desperate plight: Paul’s general term for this divine initiative is the righteousness of God (21). Divine mercy declares the guilty innocent and makes them so. God does this not as a result of the law but apart from it (21), and not because of any merit in human beings but through forgiveness of their sins (24), in virtue of the redemption wrought in Christ Jesus for all who believe (22, 24-25). God has manifested his righteousness in the coming of Jesus Christ, whose saving activity inaugurates a new era in human history.​

The Saint Joseph Edition of the New American Bible with the second edition of the New Testament (1986) has the following note on Rom. 4:3,

Jas 2, 24 appears to conflict with Paul’s statement. However, James combats the error of extremists who used the doctrine of justification through faith as a screen for moral self-determination. Paul discusses the subject of holiness in greater detail than does James and beginning with ch 6 shows how justification through faith introduces one to the gift of a new life in Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit.​

Yes, this is a Roman Catholic Bible with Roman Catholic notes published by the Catholic Book Publishing Company in New York with both the Imprimatur and the Nihil Obstat.
The problem isn't that it is RCC but that it is in error concerning both the writings of Paul and James. The very first error is in the statement that God doesn't forgive according to the law. That is outrageous and so far from the teaching of the Scriptures that everything built on it is false. God remains righteous and justifies the sinner according to righteousness. Read Rom. 3:20-26



These are nothing but hatefully malicious remarks about men and women you have never even met! How does any man become so full of hatred toward other human being?
I deal in reality not in Eutopian ideals. My comments were made from a personal and observational knowledge of academia in general. True it is not the case with a few but it is the general rule among academics. But being an academic you would deny its truth. No hatred involved at all just plain observation and understanding.



That settles it then. You don't have that username in order to try to impress or intimidate folks. Slaps forehead.



Not true!
Oh really! Do you need for me to quote a few of your posts to refute you denial? It would be easy to do.



I have never posted my credentials on Christian Forums.
Perhaps not but I do seem to remember that at some point you did. I will have to look it up of course and may do so but until then perhaps these posings of yours will suffice:
From the thread Are Baptists a denomination:
"Since one of my academic pursuits is the study of translation theory, I have more than twenty English language dictionaries in my personal library spanning 187 years, thus allowing me to see how the use of individual English language words has evolved—and more importantly, precisely how they are used today."

From the thread God and Science:
"Before becoming a Christian, I was an agnostic evolutionary biologist. Having become a conservative, evangelical Christian, pastor, and teacher of the Bible, my views of evolutionary biology have changed only in so far as the science itself has changed—which in the grand scheme of things is very little. Today, most Bible scholars agree that the first eleven chapters of Genesis are a collection of heavily redacted epic tales, myths, legends, or sagas—and that references in other parts of the Bible to the stories in those chapters are simply a consequence of subsequent biblical writers using these very well known stories to teach their current message. The supposed conflict between the Bible and science is due to ignorance on the part radicalized Christian fundamentalists."

Are these not your statements?



The Holy Spirit gives to those who yield to Him a love for others—rather than hatred and contempt! He also makes known to us those who love Him—including our brothers and sisters in the Roman Catholic Church. My best friend for more than 30 years is a staunch five-point Calvinist, and we are very close friends because we share the same Holy Sprit and the same love for God and His word. We also share an aversion for the Roman Catholic dogma that separates it from Protestantism.
The Holy Sprit reveals Christ to the believer and make known the things of Christ. John 16:14. I have neither hatred not contempt for you but only sadness and a broken heart that you have been allowed by God to spread your false doctrine to others.
 
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PrincetonGuy

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OK then lets deal with the Scriptures.... James is simply speaking of those works that are a fruit of faith not an addition to it.

From James 2:25, “εξ εργων δικαιουται…” These three words explicitly tell us that James is writing that works precede the justification of men and result in their justification. I have presented earlier in this thread some thoughts on this verse from a Baptist point of view, and from two Roman Catholic points of view—one ancient and one contemporary. The Roman Catholic point of view in the mid-twentieth century is very well presented by the late Monsignor Patrick Boylan, M.A., D.D., D. LITT., Consultor of the Pontifical Biblical Commission, Professor of Eastern Languages, University College, Dublin. Formally, Professor of Sacred Scripture and Oriental Languages, St. Patrick’s College, Maynooth”, in his 1947 commentary, St. Paul’s Epistle to the Romans, Translation and Commentary, where he comments on Romans 3:28, and compares this verse with James 2:24. There are, of course, numerous conflicting Baptist points of view.

It is easy to claim hate and maliciousness but proving it is more than you are capable of. I have no hate or malicious intent in my response to you. Your imagination has conjured it.

I did not know what hatred was until I was baptized in the Holy Spirit and my entire being was filled with the love of Christ for other human beings. The man whom I hated and found to be utterly disgusting just a minute ago I now loved so much that I literally risked my life to reach him and help him with his problem.

My comments were made from a personal and observational knowledge of academia in general. True it is not the case with a few but it is the general rule among academics. But being an academic you would deny its truth. No hatred involved at all just plain observation and understanding.

Have you ever as much as set one foot on a college or university campus?

Perhaps not but I do seem to remember that at some point you did. I will have to look it up of course and may do so but until then perhaps these posings of yours will suffice:

From the thread Are Baptists a denomination:

"Since one of my academic pursuits is the study of translation theory, I have more than twenty English language dictionaries in my personal library spanning 187 years, thus allowing me to see how the use of individual English language words has evolved—and more importantly, precisely how they are used today."


From the thread God and Science:

"Before becoming a Christian, I was an agnostic evolutionary biologist. Having become a conservative, evangelical Christian, pastor, and teacher of the Bible, my views of evolutionary biology have changed only in so far as the science itself has changed—which in the grand scheme of things is very little. Today, most Bible scholars agree that the first eleven chapters of Genesis are a collection of heavily redacted epic tales, myths, legends, or sagas—and that references in other parts of the Bible to the stories in those chapters are simply a consequence of subsequent biblical writers using these very well known stories to teach their current message. The supposed conflict between the Bible and science is due to ignorance on the part radicalized Christian fundamentalists."


Are these not your statements?

Yes, I wrote those words. I have never pretended to be a radicalized Christian fundamentalist. Yes, I accept as true the findings of the scholars specializing on Genesis and currently publishing research on Genesis 1-11 in peer-reviewed biblical journals. Yes, my somewhat limited knowledge of the English language requires that I own more than twenty English language dictionaries to see how the use of individual English language words has evolved—and more importantly, precisely how they are used today.
 
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Bluelion

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What do you believe Christ accomplished on the cross? This is what I believe He accomplished,

Romans 8:1. Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
2. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.
3. For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh,
4. so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. (NASB, 1995)

If the requirement of the Law is not fulfilled in man, what has been accomplished in his life?

1 John 3:7. Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous;
8. the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.
9. No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10. By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother. (NASB, 1995)

The law never has been nor will it ever be fulfilled in man, but in Jesus it was fulfilled.
 
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twin1954

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From James 2:25, “εξ εργων δικαιουται…” These three words explicitly tell us that James is writing that works precede the justification of men and result in their justification.
Only if you take the words out of their context. James, in chapter 2, is clearly speaking of works that show or prove faith exists he isn't contradicting Paul at all nor can we interpret Paul by a erroneous interpretation of James. The phrase "out of works justified" can be interpreted many ways actually. But in the context it clearly isn't talking about the legal justification that Paul speaks of but a justification, or proof of, the claim of having faith. Actually the word justified is in the indicative present and the works and justification happen at the same time.
I have presented earlier in this thread some thoughts on this verse from a Baptist point of view, and from two Roman Catholic points of view—one ancient and one contemporary. The Roman Catholic point of view in the mid-twentieth century is very well presented by the late Monsignor Patrick Boylan, M.A., D.D., D. LITT., Consultor of the Pontifical Biblical Commission, Professor of Eastern Languages, University College, Dublin. Formally, Professor of Sacred Scripture and Oriental Languages, St. Patrick’s College, Maynooth”, in his 1947 commentary, St. Paul’s Epistle to the Romans, Translation and Commentary, where he comments on Romans 3:28, and compares this verse with James 2:24. There are, of course, numerous conflicting Baptist points of view.
I am not interested in how a RCC twists James 2:24. As I said the context clearly shows the truth of James' words.



I did not know what hatred was until I was baptized in the Holy Spirit and my entire being was filled with the love of Christ for other human beings. The man whom I hated and found to be utterly disgusting just a minute ago I now loved so much that I literally risked my life to reach him and help him with his problem.
Good for you and your friend but what has this to do with your accusation of hatred and malicious intent by me? I told you I have no hatred or malicious intent in my statement so either take me at my word or show proof of what you accuse.



Have you ever as much as set one foot on a college or university campus?
Many times but how does that have anything to do with the truth or falsity of my statement? You are grasping at straws.



Yes, I wrote those words. I have never pretended to be a radicalized Christian fundamentalist. Yes, I accept as true the findings of the scholars specializing on Genesis and currently publishing research on Genesis 1-11 in peer-reviewed biblical journals. Yes, my somewhat limited knowledge of the English language requires that I own more than twenty English language dictionaries to see how the use of individual English language words has evolved—and more importantly, precisely how they are used today.
Yet you pretend to be a Baptist all the while holding RCC theology in matters of justification. Moreover, you make claims of your education and study as though we ought not dispute your expertise.

I understand the confidence, if not arrogance, one gets after many years of personal study, I have it as well. But neither you nor I am infallible and education or lack of it has little to do with understanding spiritual truth. It is the Spirit that gives light and understanding not education.
 
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PrincetonGuy

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Only if you take the words out of their context. James, in chapter 2, is clearly speaking of works that show or prove faith exists he isn't contradicting Paul at all nor can we interpret Paul by a erroneous interpretation of James. The phrase "out of works justified" can be interpreted many ways actually. But in the context it clearly isn't talking about the legal justification that Paul speaks of but a justification, or proof of, the claim of having faith.
In the context of the writings of Paul, the word δικαιόω always means to make just’ or ‘make righteous’ in the sight of God. Whether it mean to ‘make just’ or ‘make righteous’ was, until very recently, a point of contention between Protestants and Roman Catholics—the Romans Catholics generally taking their interpretation from the Latin Vulgate; the Protestants generally taking their interpretation from the Greek Text. The Roman Catholic Church now generally takes its interpretation from the Greek Text as do the Protestants.

Moreover, since Paul and James are both teaching on justification based upon the identical case of Abraham, it could not possibly be more absurd to think that they are talking about two different justifications. However, you are most certainly not the first Calvinist to find it necessary to argue for the absurd in order to maintain an absurd theology.
Actually the word justified is in the indicative present and the works and justification happen at the same time. I am not interested in how a RCC twists James 2:24. As I said the context clearly shows the truth of James' words.
If you had successfully completed one year of Koine Greek at the college level, you would know that I am probably right about εξ εργων δικαιουτα; if you had successfully completed two or more years of Koine Greek at the college level, you would know for certain that I am right about εξ εργων δικαιουτα. The word δικαιόω is in the present indicative, but the preposition εξ occurs in the Greek New Testament and other early Christian literature exclusively with the ablative case. Its root meanings are ‘out of’ or ‘from within’, and in the context of James 2:24 it mean ‘by’ or ‘by means of’. Therefore, it is grammatically impossible for the works and justification to be occurring at the same time; the works precede justification and result in it (according to James 2:24). For documentation of these facts, please see the Greek Grammars by the following Baptist scholars: A. T. Robertson, Dana and Mantey, and Daniel B. Wallace.
It is the Spirit that gives light and understanding not education.
The Holy Spirit uses the education that a man has. He did so with Luke; He did so with Paul; He did so with Matthew; and He did so with all of the other contributors to the New Testament. Similarly, He does so with teachers of the Bible today.
 
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PrincetonGuy

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Yet you pretend to be a Baptist all the while holding RCC theology in matters of justification.
How could anyone with even a very basic knowledge of mainstream Christian theology not know the difference between Protestant and Roman Catholic theology? In very numerous posts in many threads I have seen Calvinists falsely accuse mainstream Protestant theology of being Roman Catholic theology. Is that due to profound ignorance; or is it due to a desperate attempt to maliciously and falsely smear any theology that contradicts their own on-the-fringe theology that was invented in the 16th century?
 
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Bluelion

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In the context of the writings of Paul, the word δικαιόω always means to make just’ or ‘make righteous’ in the sight of God. Whether it mean to ‘make just’ or ‘make righteous’ was, until very recently, a point of contention between Protestants and Roman Catholics—the Romans Catholics generally taking their interpretation from the Latin Vulgate; the Protestants generally taking their interpretation from the Greek Text. The Roman Catholic Church now generally takes its interpretation from the Greek Text as do the Protestants.

Moreover, since Paul and James are both teaching on justification based upon the identical case of Abraham, it could not possibly be more absurd to think that they are talking about two different justifications. However, you are most certainly not the first Calvinist to find it necessary to argue for the absurd in order to maintain an absurd theology.

If you had successfully completed one year of Koine Greek at the college level, you would know that I am probably right about εξ εργων δικαιουτα; if you had successfully completed two or more years of Koine Greek at the college level, you would know for certain that I am right about εξ εργων δικαιουτα. The word δικαιόω is in the present indicative, but the preposition εξ occurs in the Greek New Testament and other early Christian literature exclusively with the ablative case. Its root meanings are ‘out of’ or ‘from within’, and in the context of James 2:24 it mean ‘by’ or ‘by means of’. Therefore, it is grammatically impossible for the works and justification to be occurring at the same time; the works precede justification and result in it (according to James 2:24). For documentation of these facts, please see the Greek Grammars by the following Baptist scholars: A. T. Robertson, Dana and Mantey, and Daniel B. Wallace.

The Holy Spirit uses the education that a man has. He did so with Luke; He did so with Paul; He did so with Matthew; and He did so with all of the other contributors to the New Testament. Similarly, He does so with teachers of the Bible today.

Look there is no need for name calling that is an ad homien attacking the author rather than the arugement. you said a lot about your self but never addressed the arugement that through Christ we are justified and not by the law. You obvious have not had Greek at the college level or Bible Greek if you had you would know you can complete all requirements in Bible Greek in a year at the master level, there is no such thing as two year study in Basic Greek, or common Greek you are referring to of the time. In fact all already have learned key Greek words and there mean and have yet to take the master level Greek. The attack on His knowledge is not relevant to the arugement, He does not need to know Greek to understand God's word.

would you care to address the arugement? we all know your a smart guy no need to prove it, can we get back to God now?
 
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twin1954

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In the context of the writings of Paul, the word δικαιόω always means to make just’ or ‘make righteous’ in the sight of God. Whether it mean to ‘make just’ or ‘make righteous’ was, until very recently, a point of contention between Protestants and Roman Catholics—the Romans Catholics generally taking their interpretation from the Latin Vulgate; the Protestants generally taking their interpretation from the Greek Text. The Roman Catholic Church now generally takes its interpretation from the Greek Text as do the Protestants.

Moreover, since Paul and James are both teaching on justification based upon the identical case of Abraham, it could not possibly be more absurd to think that they are talking about two different justifications. However, you are most certainly not the first Calvinist to find it necessary to argue for the absurd in order to maintain an absurd theology.

If you had successfully completed one year of Koine Greek at the college level, you would know that I am probably right about εξ εργων δικαιουτα; if you had successfully completed two or more years of Koine Greek at the college level, you would know for certain that I am right about εξ εργων δικαιουτα. The word δικαιόω is in the present indicative, but the preposition εξ occurs in the Greek New Testament and other early Christian literature exclusively with the ablative case. Its root meanings are ‘out of’ or ‘from within’, and in the context of James 2:24 it mean ‘by’ or ‘by means of’. Therefore, it is grammatically impossible for the works and justification to be occurring at the same time; the works precede justification and result in it (according to James 2:24). For documentation of these facts, please see the Greek Grammars by the following Baptist scholars: A. T. Robertson, Dana and Mantey, and Daniel B. Wallace.

The Holy Spirit uses the education that a man has. He did so with Luke; He did so with Paul; He did so with Matthew; and He did so with all of the other contributors to the New Testament. Similarly, He does so with teachers of the Bible today.
Actually you are mistaken. Both ek and ergon are in the genitive. And I consulted Dana and Mantey, Summers, Machen and Black just to make sure of my interpretation before I posted.
 
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PrincetonGuy

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Actually you are mistaken. Both ek and ergon are in the genitive. And I consulted Dana and Mantey, Summers, Machen and Black just to make sure of my interpretation before I posted.
The word ἐκ (ἐξ before a vowel) is a preposition, and prepositions are NOT declined in Greek to express number, case, or gender. Εργων is a noun, and hence it is declined in Greek to express number, case, and gender.

A. T. Robertson, Dana and Mantey, Summers, and Daniel B. Wallace hold to the theory that in Koine Greek there are eight cases:

Nominative
Vocative
Genitive
Ablative
Dative
Locative
Instrumental
Accusative

Some other grammarians (mostly old school) hold to the theory that in Koine Greek there are only five cases:

Nominative
Vocative
Genitive (which includes ablative uses)
Dative (which includes locative and instrumental uses)
Accusative

Under the eight case system, ἐκ is in the ablative case in James 2:24; under the five case system, it is in the genitive case in James 2:24.

Moreover, Dana and Mantey write on page 102,

̓ Εκ​

110. Root meanings: out of, from within.
In composition: out of, away—emphasis. 2 Cor. 4:8 furnishes a striking example of the perspective use, ἀπορούμενοι ἀλλ’ οὐκ ἐξαπορούμενοι, perplexed but not completely perplexed.
Resultant meanings: with the ablative case, the only case it occurs with: out of, from within….​

Summers writes on page 157,

ἐκ (ἐξ before a vowel)
prep. with abl., out of, from
 
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And so again I say unto you:

"Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,"-1 Peter 1:3

"God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood--to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished"- Romans 3:25

"If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied."-1 Corinthians 15:19

Seek Truth,
-His Servant
What is Righteousness?
 
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BrokenWarrior

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What is Righteousness?

Sorry for the late reply,been super busy of late.

Biblical Righteousness is what God considers "Good" and "Just".

So by "His Righteousness" its,"His Goodness,Godliness,His Standerds,His Perfection".
 
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