Salvation and Dispensationalism

[ac28]

Thirty some years ago, when I first got saved (or at least hoped I was), the question of, "What must I do to get saved", was foremost on my mind. I read in the Bible such things as:

(1) Paul's gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 and then Ephesians 2:8-9 where it says that only belief in the Biblical report of Jesus Christ is needed - no works.
(2) Then there's James who says the opposite, that salvation without works is dead - James 2:14-26.
(3) In Matthew 19:16-19, Jesus tells a man to keep the commandments if he wants eternal life. Then, to be perfect about this, He tells him to sell all he had and give the money to the poor - Matthew 19:20:21
(4) In Mark 16:16 Christ says that you must BOTH believe AND be baptized to be saved.
(5) Then, although not in the Bible, there's the idea that you must belong to a certain church to be saved.

I'm sure there are others but these will do for now.

Since (5) above is non-Biblical and you would have to be as dumb as a post (e.g., a Catholic) to believe it, it is easy to dump it in the trash.

The others are primarily dispensational situations and can be solved by applying the principles of right division 2 Timothy 2:15 and trying (testing) the things that differ Philippians 1:10 (see margin).

(2) James is pretty easy to eliminate because he says in James 1:1 that his book is written to the 12 tribes, which surely lets me out. In the present age, it lets everybody out since Israel is not in the picture at all.
(3) and (4) Both of these were uttered by Christ during His earthly ministry. But, since His 3.5 year earthly ministry was ONLY to Israel, Matthew 10:5, Matthew 15:24, Romans 15:8, John 1:31, these can be eliminated.

These leaves (1). Both passages were written by Paul, THE Apostle, Preacher, Teacher, and Minister of the Gentiles. One was written during Acts and the other after Acts. The message in the 1st one was carried over into the 2nd one. These passages can be relied upon to present truth for today. They tell you how to get saved.

___________________________________

The Everlasting Gospel. Please note these 2 passages

Revelation 14:6-7
6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Acts of the Apostles 14:8-17, specifically Acts of the Apostles 14:15
15 And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:

In the Revelation passage, we see something called the everlasting gospel that seems as though it can be preached to anyone at any time. It is that there is only ONE God you should worship, who is the creator of all.

In the Acts passage, Paul preached to pagans the same message, yet he did not preach the cross.

This begs the question, "In the OT, Gentiles had to become faithful Jews as proselytes in order to share in Israel's promises and be saved. What about those Gentiles that did not become proselytes, yet believed in and worshiped only one God who was the creator of everything. Were they saved? Similar questions could be asked for any age of time. What about now? Is there salvation outside of belief in Jesus Christ?

I don't know the answer, What do you think?

 

[MWood]

Thirty some years ago, when I first got saved (or at least hoped I was), the question of, "What must I do to get saved", was foremost on my mind. I read in the Bible such things as:

(1) Paul's gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 and then Ephesians 2:8-9 where it says that only belief in the Biblical report of Jesus Christ is needed - no works.
(2) Then there's James who says the opposite, that salvation without works is dead - James 2:14-26.
(3) In Matthew 19:16-19, Jesus tells a man to keep the commandments if he wants eternal life. Then, to be perfect about this, He tells him to sell all he had and give the money to the poor - Matthew 19:20:21
(4) In Mark 16:16 Christ says that you must BOTH believe AND be baptized to be saved.
(5) Then, although not in the Bible, there's the idea that you must belong to a certain church to be saved.

I'm sure there are others but these will do for now.

Since (5) above is non-Biblical and you would have to be as dumb as a post (e.g., a Catholic) to believe it, it is easy to dump it in the trash.

The others are primarily dispensational situations and can be solved by applying the principles of right division 2 Timothy 2:15 and trying (testing) the things that differ Philippians 1:10 (see margin).

(2) James is pretty easy to eliminate because he says in James 1:1 that his book is written to the 12 tribes, which surely lets me out. In the present age, it lets everybody out since Israel is not in the picture at all.
(3) and (4) Both of these were uttered by Christ during His earthly ministry. But, since His 3.5 year earthly ministry was ONLY to Israel, Matthew 10:5, Matthew 15:24, Romans 15:8, John 1:31, these can be eliminated.

These leaves (1). Both passages were written by Paul, THE Apostle, Preacher, Teacher, and Minister of the Gentiles. One was written during Acts and the other after Acts. The message in the 1st one was carried over into the 2nd one. These passages can be relied upon to present truth for today. They tell you how to get saved.

___________________________________

The Everlasting Gospel. Please note these 2 passages

Revelation 14:6-7
6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Acts of the Apostles 14:8-17, specifically Acts of the Apostles 14:15
15 And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:

In the Revelation passage, we see something called the everlasting gospel that seems as though it can be preached to anyone at any time. It is that there is only ONE God you should worship, who is the creator of all.

In the Acts passage, Paul preached to pagans the same message, yet he did not preach the cross.

This begs the question, "In the OT, Gentiles had to become faithful Jews as proselytes in order to share in Israel's promises and be saved. What about those Gentiles that did not become proselytes, yet believed in and worshiped only one God who was the creator of everything. Were they saved? Similar questions could be asked for any age of time. What about now? Is there salvation outside of belief in Jesus Christ?

I don't know the answer, What do you think?

There is no salvation outside of your belief in Jesus.

 

[ac28]

What is this everlasting gospel? Why didn't Paul preach Jesus Christ in Acts of the Apostles 14:8-17? What about people during the last 2000 year that never heard about Jesus Christ but believed and worshiped one God who was the creator of all? There are surely a lot of them.

 

[MWood]

What is this everlasting gospel? Why didn't Paul preach Jesus Christ in Acts of the Apostles 14:8-17? What about people during the last 2000 year that never heard about Jesus Christ but believed and worshiped one God who was the creator of all? There are surely a lot of them.

This everlasting gospel is the Gospel of the Grace of God. These people knew of gods but had never heard of this Jesus. So Paul taught them about the things that they knew. The gods that they knew were as dumb as rocks. This God that Paul preached about was about a living God. This they could understand. There is scripture concerning the people of the last 2000 yrs. but I can't remember.

 

[Danoh]

Ac28, you are reading your own first impression readings into that part of Acts.

Romans 15:17 I have therefore whereof I may glory through Jesus Christ in those things which pertain to God. 15:18 For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed, 15:19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ. 15:20 Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation: 15:21 But as it is written, To whom he was not spoken of, they shall see: and they that have not heard shall understand.

And what Paul is talking about in Acts 14: 15-17, he also goes into in Romans 1:18 forward; as he begins to break down aspects of what he refers to in Romans 1:16-17, as the gospel of Christ.

He does the same thing in Acts 17, but note the additional info.

Acts 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device. 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead. 17:32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked: and others said, We will hear thee again of this matter.

Why the difference? Because Luke does not repeat himself each time he reports what Paul preached where.

The sense being that Luke has added or will add, more detail in one of his other accounts of Paul's preaching, be they earlier or later accounts in Acts, as they each form a part of the whole of what Paul was preaching.

Also, Paul met Timothy in that same area; you can't say Timothy did not here about the gospel of Christ from Paul.

As for The Book of Revelation's "everlasting gospel" - one aspect is meant assert Who indeed is the Everlasting God, in counter to...

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Revelation 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication. 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

 

[ac28]

Danoh,

You could very well be right about Ac 14, etc. I didn't say I believed what I implied. It's just always been a curiosity, an anomaly.

 

[BABerean2]

These leaves (1). Both passages were written by Paul, THE Apostle, Preacher, Teacher, and Minister of the Gentiles. One was written during Acts and the other after Acts. The message in the 1st one was carried over into the 2nd one. These passages can be relied upon to present truth for today. They tell you how to get saved.

1Co_15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

Paul never put himself on a pedestal above the other Apostles.

1Co 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
1Co 1:11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
1Co 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
1Co 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?


Is there more than one Gospel?
Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
.

 

[dms1972]

What is this everlasting gospel? Why didn't Paul preach Jesus Christ in Acts of the Apostles 14:8-17? What about people during the last 2000 year that never heard about Jesus Christ but believed and worshiped one God who was the creator of all? There are surely a lot of them.

The Everlasting Gospel is proclaimed by an 'angel', but that may mean a preacher, or even more than one preacher in the language of the book of Revelation. So it may be a 'type or figure of the good and faithful servants of God'. Reformation Bible commentaries tends toward that interpretation.

http://biblehub.com/revelation/14-6.htm

I read somewhere that angels (the winged variety as it were) do not have the same insight into the Gospel as the Apostles. And obviously that would be true - they would not know for instance the struggle Paul mentions in Romans 7 as they are of an angelic nature. Nevertheless it is the same Gospel in the book of Revelation and that Paul is preaching (even though in Acts we may assume Paul at some points said more than was reported by the writer of Acts). Paul's sermons and his theology in his letters centre on the Death and Resurrection of Jesus the Christ. This was always in his mind, and it became possible to expound in detail with those who for instance requested the opportunity to hear him say more on it, as happens following his sermon in Athens in Acts 17.

In Acts 14 it is an incident that occured, that chapter is not presenting Paul's full preaching, so it can be understood they are warning the crowd about idolatry and alarmed that they as mere men and ministers of the Gospel might become objects of worship. That needed to be addressed immediately as deadly error and restrained or it would have totally undercut any further preaching.



I think based on teaching I have heard that when a person is God fearing, they are then shown the way to God, that is one will be given a preacher, or in some way the Gospel will be communicated. For instance some of the Incan's may have received dreams which were to guide them away from worship of Inti (the sun) to worship the true God though that never was instituted and other Incan priests opposed changes to their pagan religion.