Sabbath observance under extreme situations?

[BukiRob]

Actually, I don't agree. There are six other days to do as we wish.

You missed the point.

 

[danny ski]

You missed the point.

I did not miss it. I'm just refraining from criticizing your deity

 

[BukiRob]

I did not miss it. I'm just refraining from criticizing your deity

The Lord rebuke you!

Shema Y'Israel Adoni Eloheinu, Adonia ECHAD!!!!!!

 

[danny ski]

The Lord rebuke you!

Shema Y'Israel Adoni Eloheinu, Adonia ECHAD!!!!!!

There's nothing to be upset about. I know you see nothing wrong with the text you quoted, but Jews do. Just little differences...

 

[pat34lee]

Actually, I don't agree. There are six other days to do as we wish.

This is about life, not what we wish. If your neighbor
is cutting his lawn on Sabbath and has an accident,
would you let him bleed to death or help him?

Would you visit your dying brother/sister in the hospital
on Sabbath if it is more than a Sabbath's day journey
away from you, knowing they will not live past sunset?

If a tree falls on your house on Sabbath morning, and it
is going to rain all day, will you wait until night to begin
repairing it?

 

[BukiRob]

There's nothing to be upset about. I know you see nothing wrong with the text you quoted, but Jews do. Just little differences...

There is when you try to assert that I do not Worship Elohim Adonia!

 

[danny ski]

This is about life, not what we wish. If your neighbor
is cutting his lawn on Sabbath and has an accident,
would you let him bleed to death or help him?

Would you visit your dying brother/sister in the hospital
on Sabbath if it is more than a Sabbath's day journey
away from you, knowing they will not live past sunset?

If a tree falls on your house on Sabbath morning, and it
is going to rain all day, will you wait until night to begin
repairing it?

My post #18 If it's an emergency, you're obligated to perform a task on shabbos. If it's not, there are other six days. No Law changing required.

 

[danny ski]

There is when you try to assert that I do not Worship Elohim Adonia!

I assume that as a Christian you worship Gd and Jesus.

 

[Dave-W]

If I also were to become an Israeli citizen, should I ask for exemption from service in the I. D. F. or..... should I be willing to be trained..... and should I be willing to act............ if necessary...... all while praying at the same time??????

In that army, you are more on God's side than on any other nations' military on earth.

 

[visionary]

"This Sabbath [The New Covenant Sabbath, Sunday] is then kept holy unto the Lord, when men, after a due preparing of their hearts, and ordering of their common affairs beforehand, do not only observe an holy rest, all the day, from their own works, words, and thoughts about their worldly employments and recreations, but also are taken up, the whole time, in the public and private exercises of his worship, and in the duties of necessity and mercy." -The Westminster Confession of Faith 21.8

So yes, an officer of the law may need to exercise lethal force on Sunday in order to preserve the lives of others.

So you even know which part of the CF you are posting in, and have you read the rules before you posted?

 

[DennisTate]

I see faith faltered at Masada... No David to come stand before Goliath that day.

True........... and.......

Hos 4:6

"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children."

....IF..... even one Messianic Jew had been among the rebels at Masada..... and if that one Messianic Jew had felt free to shoot arrows........... could the people of Masada have survived....... and became like a group of priests over the coming centuries??????

 

[DennisTate]

After all this time, they do not believe God will come at the last moment, which He is known to do. They committed a sin against self to avoid what they believe was their fate. Who gave them this fear? Who said that was their fate? What drove them to do this? I do not believe God did?

And now theoretical physicists are presenting us with theories that indicate that Ezekiel 37 may happen again and again and again...... so perhaps ...... the time is coming when....... a Jew from our time period or the not too distant future may go to the rebels at Masada..... .and initiate a new time line in which they live out full lives?!?!

http://www.christianforums.com/thre...-resurrection-lead-to-new-time-lines.7935696/

Can the Ezekiel 37 resurrection lead to new time lines?

 

[DennisTate]

Actually, I don't agree. There are six other days to do as we wish.

But...... what is the full meaning of G-d setting apart the seventh day and sanctifying it??????

Could it perhaps mean that G-d likes to heal people from Friday sunset to Saturday sunset???????

 

[DennisTate]

If it's an emergency, you're obligated to perform a task on shabbos. If it's not, there are other six days. No Law changing required.

True.... the emergency aspect of this is critical and relevant!

 

[DennisTate]

You should not say that. Not from ten thousand kilometers away and two thousand years removed. And from the POV of another religion. Even OUR Sages are silent on the final action of the defenders. BTW, they did not commit suicide, they killed each other.

This is a very interesting viewpoint Danny Ski!

I have began a number of discussions regarding Messianic Jews and Christians supporting the Orthodox Jewish community in their desire to rebuild the Jerusalem Third Temple complex. I would be honoured to see your reply to this topic.

The two years that seem especially auspicious from my view point are the years 2070....... and also 2030!

I feel that the weekly Sabbath is somehow symbolic of a one thousand year time period that we are either in..... or it is coming up fast. There is relevance to those Sabbaths during the era of Moshiach when certain rituals may take place on a weekly or annual Sabbath?!

http://www.christianforums.com/thre...hould-support-jerusalem-third-temple.7871557/

Carl Cantrell on why Christians should support Jerusalem Third Temple.

 

[DennisTate]

Actually, I don't agree. There are six other days to do as we wish.

Here is one of those polls that I conducted on another forum related to the Jerusalem Third Temple.

You may find the results rather interesting.

http://www.christianforums.com/thre...t-jews-in-rebuilding-of-third-temple.7647317/

Should Christians support Jews in rebuilding of Third Temple?

 

[pat34lee]

Does anyone here think that we can do anything to
alter Yahweh's plans? If anything, we are the ones
going to bend (or break) around his timetable.

 

[Henaynei]

Kohelet/Ecclesiastes 3
For everything there is a season,
a right time for every intention under heaven—
a time to be born and a time to die,
a time to plant and a time to uproot,
a time to kill and a time to heal,
a time to tear down and a time to build,
a time to weep and a time to laugh,
a time to mourn and a time to dance,
a time to throw stones and a time to gather stones,
a time to embrace and a time to refrain,
a time to search and a time to give up,
a time to keep and a time to discard,
a time to tear and a time to sew,
a time to keep silent and a time to speak,
a time to love and a time to hate,
a time for war and a time for peace.

Thus fighting, raising ones hand or killing to defend/protect is not a lack of faith....
We are G-d's hands and feet - to heal and to kill, to build and to tear down, for peace and for war....

 

[visionary]

I would not want to be in a position where I feel no way out... But suicide is the bottom of the barrel in choices to make.

 

[Dave-W]

I think Yeshua made it pretty clear that it is NOT unlawful to do good on the Sabbath. In fact, he would suggest to refuse to do good on the Sabbath is actually to sin.

If it's an emergency, you're obligated to perform a task on shabbos. If it's not, there are other six days. No Law changing required.

I submit that even if it is NOT an emergency, there is no Law change needed.

There is a rabbinic principle that states if 2 Torah commands are in opposition, a positive command and a negative command, then the positive command always trumps the negative one with 2 exceptions: the prohibitions on idol worship and adultery.

IN the cases presented the 2 opposing commands were the positive command to save life (even stretched to quality of life) and not working on the Sabbath.

And it seems Yeshua appealed to that principle on a few occasions. Matt 12.11 Luke 13.15 Luke 14.5
Please note not all of these were "emergencies," not even the examples. I would say that if Yeshua appealed to that principle, it stands as valid.