Rule # 4 for the RM Forum

[- DRA -]

Rule # 4 for the No Creed But Christ - Restoration Movement Forum (dated 7/25/2007) states:

4) "We are not the only Christians, but we are Christians only." Restoration Movement believers do not claim to be the only Christians, and we accept other believers who profess to believe in Jesus Christ as our brothers and sisters. However, we do not attach any other name to ourselves other than "Christian." There is a very small percentage of RM believers who believe that only RM believers are true Christians, but this is not a popular view.

If "we are not the only Christians" is true, then who are the other Christians? Do they include denominationalists who believe the Lord's church is made up of different churches versus individual Christians? Do they include those who teach that one can be saved without faith (i.e. those who practice infant baptism)? Do they include those who teach we are saved by faith alone?

Personally, I am glad that an additional Forum rule states:

1. To be considered a RM member, one must agree with the beliefs posted above and/or attend a RM church.

That "and/or attend a RM church" leaves me with an opening to discuss/debate on this Forum, because for sure I don't agree with the description given in point # 4 above. Perhaps those of you who agree with it can explain which Scriptures I misunderstand.

 

[ReformedChapin]

Rule # 4 for the No Creed But Christ - Restoration Movement Forum (dated 7/25/2007) states:

4) "We are not the only Christians, but we are Christians only." Restoration Movement believers do not claim to be the only Christians, and we accept other believers who profess to believe in Jesus Christ as our brothers and sisters. However, we do not attach any other name to ourselves other than "Christian." There is a very small percentage of RM believers who believe that only RM believers are true Christians, but this is not a popular view.

If "we are not the only Christians" is true, then who are the other Christians? Do they include denominationalists who believe the Lord's church is made up of different churches versus individual Christians? Do they include those who teach that one can be saved without faith (i.e. those who practice infant baptism)? Do they include those who teach we are saved by faith alone?

Personally, I am glad that additional Forum rules state:

1. To be considered a RM member, one must agree with the beliefs posted above and/or attend a RM church.

That "and/or attend a RM church" leaves me with an opening to discuss/debate on this Forum, because for sure I don't agree with the description given in point # 4 above. Perhaps those of you who agree with it can explain which Scriptures I misunderstand.

Point 4) sounds weird to me too considering even my reformed view states that God's elect are saved not just those who adhere to the calvinistic system. The second part also seems to contradict the first part, which is odd.

 

[HeyHomie]

There are Christians who attend churches other than RM churches. That is why those in the RM are not the "only Christians." It seems quite clear to me.

 

[Splayd]

1) "We are not the only Christians" acknowledges that there are Christians that don't attend RM churches as Hey Homie said. I certainly believe that there are Christians that attend Baptist, Methodist, Brethren, Non-denominational etc.. etc... congregations.

2) "but we are Christians only" means we only consider ourselves to be Christians. We, in the RM, don't consider ourselves to be Baptist Christians or Methodist Christians or even RM Christians. We're just "Christians".

3) As distasteful as it is to me personally, I recognise that there are a small minority in the RM that refuse to recognise that someone like NewGuy101 could be a Christian because he attends a church other RM and/or also identifies himself by some other label as well as Christian (in this case Calvinist).

Of the thousands of RM people that I've met, I've only known of 2 people held such a view. Others may have, but I was never aware of it. Personally, I consider such views to be the hallmark of cults and find them totally repugnant to the Kingdom. Nonetheless, I'm prepared to acknowledge that there are some in RM congregations who feel that way and I'm not about to suggest they can't have a voice here.

 

[FreeinChrist]

Here is the link to the wiki:
http://www.christianforums.com/t5761813-wiki-no-creed-but-christ-restoration-movement.html

Note that #4 has been changed to:
4) We are "Christians only." Restoration Movement believers do not claim to be an offshoot of any particular religious denomination. We do not attach any other name to ourselves other than "Christian."


Please - take part in the Wiki and discuss!!

 

[Loveaboveall]

Rule # 4 for the No Creed But Christ - Restoration Movement Forum (dated 7/25/2007) states:

4) "We are not the only Christians, but we are Christians only." Restoration Movement believers do not claim to be the only Christians, and we accept other believers who profess to believe in Jesus Christ as our brothers and sisters. However, we do not attach any other name to ourselves other than "Christian." There is a very small percentage of RM believers who believe that only RM believers are true Christians, but this is not a popular view.

If "we are not the only Christians" is true, then who are the other Christians? Do they include denominationalists who believe the Lord's church is made up of different churches versus individual Christians? Do they include those who teach that one can be saved without faith (i.e. those who practice infant baptism)? Do they include those who teach we are saved by faith alone?

Personally, I am glad that an additional Forum rule states:

1. To be considered a RM member, one must agree with the beliefs posted above and/or attend a RM church.

That "and/or attend a RM church" leaves me with an opening to discuss/debate on this Forum, because for sure I don't agree with the description given in point # 4 above. Perhaps those of you who agree with it can explain which Scriptures I misunderstand.

What is your definition of a Christian?

 

[freespiritchurch]

"We" don't have a definition of a Christian. I define a Christian as a person who has proclaims that Jesus is the Christ, the son of the living God, and is baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. You might have some other definition. The point is that most people in the RM agree that salvation is extended beyond the bounds of our communion.

Alan

 

[Splayd]

I'd go beyond that and suggest it was one of the key principals behind the Restoration Movement in the first place. It was very much a unity movement.

 

[Loveaboveall]

John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

Is it possible for "other" christians to worship in "spirit" (from the heart) and truth (maybe not the whole truth but worship to the degree that they know)? Does God accept worship from the heart even if the person has not accepted "perfect" biblical doctrine? Apparently there are some on this forum who belive only those who have perfect knowledge of the truth are worthy to worship God, I fear for these people! Are we absolutely certain that we have ALL the truth that is in the Bible? Has complete light been shed as to what every aspect of the scriptures speak of?

If we are to be held to the standard of perfect truth for our worship to be acceptable to God than we might as well all give up!

 

[SpiritDriven]

John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

Is it possible for "other" christians to worship in "spirit" (from the heart) and truth (maybe not the whole truth but worship to the degree that they know)? Does God accept worship from the heart even if the person has not accepted "perfect" biblical doctrine? Apparently there are some on this forum who belive only those who have perfect knowledge of the truth are worthy to worship God, I fear for these people! Are we absolutely certain that we have ALL the truth that is in the Bible? Has complete light been shed as to what every aspect of the scriptures speak of?

If we are to be held to the standard of perfect truth for our worship to be acceptable to God than we might as well all give up!

Awesome post!

The main problem with the teaching is that many Christians (please excuse me for using that description, it was given to followers of Jesus by the Romans I think not sure about that one)
Anyhow many Christians feel that there is somthing they have to do to attain right standing with God....and this is not so.....everything was already done for us at the Cross.

A lot of False doctrine is going around Christendom that robs people of their peace of mind with God..... this false Doctrine has them sucked in and worried about their right standing with God, it has them striving and working and doing to try and attain right standing with God.....which is actualy trusting in their own actions and deeds and not the actions and deeds of him who justified the unGodly on the Cross.

My sole and only purpose is to dispel these Lies of Religion...and reassure people that Faith in Christ alone is all that is required.....because then you are baptised with the Holy Spirit.

You got to get over the idea that there is even one single thing you can do to make yourself right with God, because there is not one single thing that you can do to make yourself right with God.....give up on yourself!

Repent of your own actions and deeds to attain right standing with God.....put your trust in the actions and deeds of Christ on your behalf on the Cross.... this is all the knowledge any Christian needs to know.....

This is the repentance that leads to life!


Grace and Peace to you all.

 

[Loveaboveall]

You got to get over the idea that there is even one single thing you can do to make yourself right with God, because there is not one single thing that you can do to make yourself right with God.....give up on yourself!

Repent of your own actions and deeds to attain right standing with God.....put your trust in the actions and deeds of Christ on your behalf on the Cross.... this is all the knowledge any Christian needs to know.....

This is the repentance that leads to life!


Grace and Peace to you all.

Well, it was not my intent in that post to say what you have said.... But you seem to want to interject your theology into anything anybody says!... I appreciate that you agreed with my post. Maybe you can explain why you agree with it?

By the way... you say, "there is not one single thing that you can do to make yourself right with God.....give up on yourself!"

But then you say, "Repent of your own actions and deeds to attain right standing with God"

Which is it? It can't be both... According to what I have read from you in the past you believe that free will is nonexistent. How can you repent without free will? How can you make any choices without free will? Isn't repenting an "act" that is saving yourself? At least I believe you have said this in the past.\


So, please tell me, which is it? Are we to repent to attain right standing with God, or are we supposed to wait for God to draw us to Him and do what we want?

 

[SpiritDriven]

Well, it was not my intent in that post to say what you have said.... But you seem to want to interject your theology into anything anybody says!... I appreciate that you agreed with my post. Maybe you can explain why you agree with it?

By the way... you say, "there is not one single thing that you can do to make yourself right with God.....give up on yourself!"

But then you say, "Repent of your own actions and deeds to attain right standing with God"

Which is it? It can't be both... According to what I have read from you in the past you believe that free will is nonexistent. How can you repent without free will? How can you make any choices without free will? Isn't repenting an "act" that is saving yourself? At least I believe you have said this in the past.\


So, please tell me, which is it? Are we to repent to attain right standing with God, or are we supposed to wait for God to draw us to Him and do what we want?

You have no Free will about your final destiny with God, you will end up where he wants you....in his presence.

Nobody wants to leave his presence.....

Lots of people go to Church and do this that or the other, thinking they have to do this that or the other to attain...maintain...not lose their right standing with God.

They will never please God doing these things.... when they stop doing these things.....because they have become aware....then they have become aware by the will of God....who is drawing them in closer.
It is not a choice we make.....if it where up to us we would not even know there was a God.

Peace

 

[Loveaboveall]

You have no Free will about your final destiny with God, you will end up where he wants you....in his presence.

Nobody wants to leave his presence.....

Lots of people go to Church and do this that or the other, thinking they have to do this that or the other to attain...maintain...not lose their right standing with God.

They will never please God doing these things.... when they stop doing these things.....because they have become aware....then they have become aware by the will of God....who is drawing them in closer.
It is not a choice we make.....if it where up to us we would not even know there was a God.

Peace

you still didn't answer the question... Does one repent to attain right standing with God, OR is there nothing we can do to attain right standing?

 

[SpiritDriven]

Sorry....I try answering a different way.

The Relisation that there is nothing you can do to make yourself right with God....is repentance of your own actions and deeds to attain right standing with him.
Or in other words you stop doing those things that you where doing before to try and make yourself right with God...because he has given you the relisation that your right standing with him was because of his sons performance...not yours....his sons obedience...not yours.

Peace

 

[FreeinChrist]

Please keep this thread on topic.

And please remmber the rules of this forum

 

[- DRA -]

There are Christians who attend churches other than RM churches. That is why those in the RM are not the "only Christians." It seems quite clear to me.

Eph. 4:4 says there is "one body." Since the body is identified as the church in Eph. 1:22-23, then "one body" = "one church."

Please explain how your "quite clear" reasoning process harmonizes the unity found in Eph. 4:1-6.

 

[- DRA -]

1) "We are not the only Christians" acknowledges that there are Christians that don't attend RM churches as Hey Homie said. I certainly believe that there are Christians that attend Baptist, Methodist, Brethren, Non-denominational etc.. etc... congregations.

If your "I certainly believe" is the type of faith mentioned in Romans 10:17, then there is a scriptural basis for your "belief." Where is this scriptural basis?

... 3) As distasteful as it is to me personally, I recognise that there are a small minority in the RM that refuse to recognise that someone like NewGuy101 could be a Christian because he attends a church other RM and/or also identifies himself by some other label as well as Christian (in this case Calvinist).

Sorry that it is so "distasteful" to face Jesus' concept of the minority i.e. Matt. 7:13-14, 21-23. I imagine that Eph. 4:1-6 is just as distasteful. Am I correct?

Of the thousands of RM people that I've met, I've only known of 2 people held such a view. Others may have, but I was never aware of it. Personally, I consider such views to be the hallmark of cults and find them totally repugnant to the Kingdom. Nonetheless, I'm prepared to acknowledge that there are some in RM congregations who feel that way and I'm not about to suggest they can't have a voice here.

Bless your heart for allowing one of those two "cultish" people to have a voice to speak out. Question: Is is cultish to actually believe Eph. 4:1-6? How about Eph. 2:8-9, which is also a part of that context (the unifying of Jews and Gentiles into one church)?

Does your "I consider" have a scriptural basis, or is it just your opinion?

 

[- DRA -]

What is your definition of a Christian?

The "disciples" were first called Christians in Antioch (of Syria) in Acts 11:26. Therefore, a Christian is synonymous with being a disciple of Christ i.e. one who is Christ-like.

Question:
Who were the disciples in Acts 2:41 ... the 3,000 that obeyed what they were told in Acts 2:38, or the other Jews that didn't obey?

 

[- DRA -]

John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

Is it possible for "other" christians to worship in "spirit" (from the heart) and truth (maybe not the whole truth but worship to the degree that they know)? Does God accept worship from the heart even if the person has not accepted "perfect" biblical doctrine? Apparently there are some on this forum who belive only those who have perfect knowledge of the truth are worthy to worship God, I fear for these people! Are we absolutely certain that we have ALL the truth that is in the Bible? Has complete light been shed as to what every aspect of the scriptures speak of?

If we are to be held to the standard of perfect truth for our worship to be acceptable to God than we might as well all give up!

Cornelius is the closest example I can think of to what you are describing (Acts 10). He seemed to have a good heart and was sincere and devoted to pleasing God. However, was he saved in this condition?

Then, there's also the Ephesians. They had been baptized only with John's baptism, and when Paul came to Ephesus, he realized something was amiss. Then, he had the twelve baptized in the name of the Lord. Why would he do that? The impression is that the Ephesians were sincere, they thought they had obeyed the Lord?

Saul was sincere when he persecuted Christians i.e. Acts 23:1. Was he acceptable to good in this state? I don't think so. In Acts 22:16, he was told what to do to have his sins washed away. That implies he was still in his sins. Therefore, sincerity doesn't take away sins like obedience to the gospel takes away sins.

And, there's Matthew 7:21-23. I am left with the impression this judgment scene is decribing people who are sincere. They are calling on the Lord and doing many things in His name. However, something is wrong. First, there's the matter of doing the Father's will. Then, there's Jesus' response: "I never knew you." That clues us in to the fact that these folks were never saved in the first place. They thought they were, but the Lord says they weren't. Therefore, this matter of doing what the Lord says to be saved from our sins should be of utmost importance to us.

Does it take a "perfect knowledge" of the truth to be saved? Let's see ... in Acts 2 the Holy Spirit influences Peter to use Joel 2, Psalm 16, 2 Samuel 7, and Psalm 110 to declare Jesus as both Lord and Christ (verse 36). Evidently, some Jews understood this to be true and were concerned about God's wrath for their sins (see verse 37). Therefore, they asked what they should do. Peter told them in verse 38 ... and they obeyed (verse 41). They seemed to understand just fine what it took for them to be saved from their sins. Now, why can't folks today look at examples such as this in the book of Acts and determine what is required for us to be saved from our sins? Is it that hard to understand?

 

[- DRA -]

Awesome post [Loveaboveall]!

The main problem with the teaching is that many Christians (please excuse me for using that description, it was given to followers of Jesus by the Romans I think not sure about that one)
Anyhow many Christians feel that there is somthing they have to do to attain right standing with God....and this is not so.....everything was already done for us at the Cross.

Not to diminish from Jesus' cross, but He accomplished exactly what He purposed on the cross - God's grace was extended to everyone (i.e. Titus 2:11). However, there is more to the story. People need to hear the message of the gospel and obey it (i.e. Matt. 28:18-20, Mark 16:15-16). Obedience to God's will should not be overlooked nor downplayed. Peter wrote, "Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth ... (1 Pet. 1:22a)." It is each person's responsibility to obey the Lord. Saul was told what to do to have his sins washed away (Acts 22:16) ... and obeyed. Why not follow his example (1 Cor. 11:1)?

A lot of False doctrine is going around Christendom that robs people of their peace of mind with God..... this false Doctrine has them sucked in and worried about their right standing with God, it has them striving and working and doing to try and attain right standing with God.....which is actualy trusting in their own actions and deeds and not the actions and deeds of him who justified the unGodly on the Cross.

There is indeed a lot of false teaching occurring. However, obeying what God tells us is not one of those teachings. It's how faith is supposed to work (James 2:14-26).

My sole and only purpose is to dispel these Lies of Religion...and reassure people that Faith in Christ alone is all that is required.....because then you are baptised with the Holy Spirit.

You got to get over the idea that there is even one single thing you can do to make yourself right with God, because there is not one single thing that you can do to make yourself right with God.....give up on yourself!

Repent of your own actions and deeds to attain right standing with God.....put your trust in the actions and deeds of Christ on your behalf on the Cross.... this is all the knowledge any Christian needs to know.....

This is the repentance that leads to life!


Grace and Peace to you all.

I'm confused ... .

You seem to be sending conflicting messages. On one hand you say we need "to get over the idea that there is even one single thing you can do to make yourself right with God", but on the other hand you tell us we need to have faith, repent, and trust. According to John 6:29-30 belief/faith in Christ is a work that God wants us to do. Likewise, repenting and putting our trust in the Lord are things that require action on our part. Please clarify.

Bottom line, Acts 2:38 is an example of conversion. Three thousand did as they were told and were saved (see verses 41 and 47). Do you think they did the right thing by obeying God's commands? Was Peter one of the false teachers you alluded to earlier?