Romans 7 and the LAW of God - Holy Just and Good - Spiritual.. vs Sinful nature

[BobRyan]

Romans 7
Or do you not know, brethren (for I am speaking to those who know the law), that the law has jurisdiction over a person as long as he lives? 2 For the married woman is bound by law to her husband while he is living; but if her husband dies, she is released from the law concerning the husband. 3 So then, if while her husband is living she is joined to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is not an adulteress though she is joined to another man.

all bound by the LAW - all obligated to keep it - all guilty as sinners - "transgression of the LAW" -- sinners.

Having just established in Chapter 6 "The wages of SIN is DEATH" - we see that for the saints - that death takes place - in Christ our substitute and in the New Birth new life begins,

Romans 7
4 Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.

That "We" that are now "joined to ANOTHER" is the same "WE" that were formerly bound by the LAW as sinners as transgressors - as those who needed salvation.

Romans 7
5 For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. 6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

What about making an evil-thing out of the LAW of God - blaming God and His LAW for our sin? Does Paul allow that?

Romans 7
7 What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead.

As Paul notes in Romans 4 - "where there is no LAW there is no SIN".
"Sin IS TRANSGRESSION of the LAW" 1 John 3:4

The wicked there is apparent "life" outside of being aware of the full requirement of the LAW of God -- and being oblivious to the Romans 3:19-21 fact that they are bound by the LAW as sinners.

Romans 7
9 I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died; 10 and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me; 11 for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me. 12 So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.

13 Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful.

The Conflict of Two Natures
14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin.

Paul describes the sinful nature and its war against the LAW of God

Romans 7
15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. 16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good.

Very few here will dare to quote that text at the same time as declaring they are at WAR with the LAW of God. The two positions are opposed to each other.

Romans 7
17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. 19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. 20 But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

Instead of Paul declaring himself to be at WAR with God's LAW -- he says he fully affirms it - admits that it is good, holy, just and Spiritual - but that HE has a sinful nature that seeks to be at WAR with the LAW of God.

Romans 7
21 I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. 22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, 23 but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.

 

[BobRyan]

In Romans 8 Paul does admit to a certain group of the lost who do not submit to the Law of God "neither indeed can they".

Rom 8
He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

But everyone sins,

Romans 3 "ALL HAVE SINNED"


But the Bible makes it clear that there is only ONE group that is in this condition described as follows ---

Romans 8

6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

Romans 7 - Paul constrasts TWO LAWs -
1. The LAW of GOD - holy just and good, spiritual that condemns all mankind as sinners.
2. The LAW of sin - the LAW of sin and death that is at WAR against the LAW of God.

I choose NOT to be at WAR against the LAW of God

 

[BobRyan]

Like I said no one obeys the Sabbath. .

In Romans 8 Paul does admit to a certain group of the lost who do not submit to the Law of God "neither indeed can they".

Rom 8
He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

You missed the chapter before that.
Romans chapter 7
4 So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For when we were in the realm of the flesh,[a] the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

You missed Chapter 7 and the chapter before that

Romans 6
6 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?

What IS SIN?
"SIN IS Transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4 - even in the NT

Romans 6
6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7 for he who has died is freed from sin.

10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, 13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! 16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, 18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.

20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death. 22 But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[I Witness]

Let's take this one step further.

The spirit at work in the sinner is the devil.

The reason the Son of God appeared was to free those who all their lives were held in slavery to their fear of death. Hebrews 2

 

[I Witness]

Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

 

[BobRyan]

I love this thread - it shows that Paul affirms the very LAW -- that many would have hoped to condemn

 

[BobRyan]

Hello Bob.

Romans 7:6
But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

Let go of the old creation

Hi David -

Hint most of those quotes I gave are from post-cross statements of NT writers -- is it your view that they are all wrong??? Your effort to argue they are wrong to affirm the Bible - is bending Romans 7:6 against the Bible and Against Romans 7! Because in Romans 7 Paul says he affirms the very Law you condemn.

 

[klutedavid]

Hi David -

Hint most of those quotes I gave are from post-cross statements of NT writers -- is it your view that they are all wrong??? Your effort to argue they are wrong to affirm the Bible - is bending Romans 7:6 against the Bible and Against Romans 7! Because in Romans 7 Paul says he affirms the very Law you condemn.

Hello Bob.

Not saying that your quotations are incorrect, rather they are
taken out of context. I am certainly not bending the scripture.

Under the law, then not under Grace.

Romans 6
14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

Romans 6
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!

 

[BobRyan]

In short, to believe 'his commands' refer to Torah as commanded the children of Yisrael would be skewing the context of the very letter you quote.

Until you read the words of Christ --

John 14
10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.

John 12
7 If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day. 49 For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak. 50 I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me.”

Eph 6:2 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise), -- the 5th commandment in that still-valid "unit of ten" is the "FIRST commandment with a promise.

Matt 19
16 And someone came to Him and said, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?” 17 And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?”

And Jesus said,
“You shall not commit murder;
You shall not commit adultery;
You shall not steal;
You shall not bear false witness;
19 Honor your father and mother; and
You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

You are misreading his witness

Merely qouting the text gives rise to your objection to it?

Nowhere here does it state or imply that the words Yeshua spoke as given by the Father was a regiving of the Torah given Moses.

Does he need to "regive" the command not to take God's name in vain?

Really?

Mark 7 Christ Himself argues that it is God's Commandments that he is promoting.

Notice what Jesus said about the obligation of others - when it comes to the "Commandment of God" -- the "Word of God" and "Moses said" -- in Mark 7:6-13


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Certainly from their point of view they would never have accused themselves of diminishing the Ten Commandments in the least.

But what does Christ accuse them of doing?

1. Using their own traditions to nullify one of the Ten Commandments.
2. He calls the Ten Commandments "Moses says" -- and "the Word of God" and "the Commandment of God"
3. He argues that even though they do not claim to be setting aside one of the Commandments of God - they in fact are by observing the example he gives in the case of the 5th Commandment.
4. He argues that this is just one example of the many things they do with their traditions - in this way - nullifying the Word of God. Contradicting the Commandment of God - one of the TEN.
5. He states that it nullifies their worship.
6. Jesus is not defending their additions -- he is defending God's Commandments


And notice how Eph 6:2 uses that same Commandment - predicating it's affirmative on the basis of a still valid unit of TEN in which the command to honor Parents is the "FIRST commandment with a promise"!!

Hello Bob.

Romans 7:6
But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

Let go of the old creation

Hi David -

Hint most of these quotes are from post-cross statements of NT writers -- is it your view that they are all wrong??? Your effort to argue they are wrong to affirm the Bible - is bending Romans 7:6 against the Bible and Against Romans 7! Because in Romans 7 Paul says he affirms the very Law you condemn.

Hello Bob.
Not saying that your quotations are incorrect, rather they are
taken out of context.

David it is easy to see that you are making a false accusation because you offer nothing at all by way of evidence for any single Bible quote to back up such an accusation.

Anyone can engage in hand waiving and just say "you got it all wrong my friend" -- the compelling bit is in the actual evidence - not the ability to type.

Does that not bother you -- not even just a little??

in Christ,

Bob

 

[klutedavid]

Hi David -

Hint most of these quotes are from post-cross statements of NT writers -- is it your view that they are all wrong??? Your effort to argue they are wrong to affirm the Bible - is bending Romans 7:6 against the Bible and Against Romans 7! Because in Romans 7 Paul says he affirms the very Law you condemn.



David it is easy to see that you are making a false accusation because you offer nothing at all by way of evidence for any single Bible quote to back up such an accusation.

Anyone can engage in hand waiving and just say "you got it all wrong my friend" -- the compelling bit is in the actual evidence - not the ability to type.

Does that not bother you -- not even just a little??

in Christ,

Bob

Hello Bob.

The verses I quoted speak for themselves.

Romans 6
14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

Romans 6
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!

Romans 7
4 Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that
we might bear fruit for God.

 

[bloodygrace]

I love this thread - it shows that Paul affirms the very LAW -- that many would have hoped to condemn

Paul also affirms that the law of God is broken up into the letter and the Spirit over and over and over in his writings. The letter of the law is found in the Torah or the first five books of Moses and is summed up by the decalogue or the ten commandments. This law is always presented in negative terms because it condemns us as sinners. The Spirit of the law which is written in the heart is best summed up by the love of God. The love of God was the sole focus of every single NT author and is this spiritual component that reigns within and has jurisdiction over our thoughts, motives and desires. The Spirit of the law is always presented in positive terms compared to the negative aspect of the letter.

But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Rom. 7:6

 

[BobRyan]

Paul also affirms that the law of God is broken up into the letter and the Spirit over and over and over in his writings. The letter of the law is found in the Torah or the first five books of Moses and is summed up by the decalogue or the ten commandments. This law is always presented in negative terms

The wild speculation that God's Commandments - God's Ten Commandments are always quoted from Ex 20 in negative terms in the NT - is totally false -- and we both know it.


==========================

Are God's Ten Commandments still valid ??

That is the primary question to be answered on this section of the board.

And the irrefutable response from scripture is ... "yes".

========================

Here we have the NT text providing examples from the TEN Commandments -- affirming them as "still" valid.

And of course scripture is -- true.

=========================

Matt 19
And someone came to Him and said;Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life 17 And He said to him, Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments; 18 Then he *said to Him, Which ones? And Jesus said,
You shall not commit murder;
You shall not commit adultery;
You shall not steal;
You shall not bear false witness;
19 Honor your father and mother;
and
You shall love your neighbor as yourself


"what matters is Keeping the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19


Matt 5
17 Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


"do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31

What law? The Law that condemns all mankind as sinners -

Rom 3
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

That same law - same chapter

"do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31

Note Paul says in Romans 3 that this is the Law that defines sin and condemns the entire world as sinners... that would not be "the Law about Passover". That does not condemn gentiles at all.
.
...

The context in Romans 3 is not Psalms but rather the LAW that condemns all mankind under sin.

Which I think even you will admit is not simply the Psalms - but the TEN Commandments written on stone the "LAW of death" as Paul calls it in 2Cor 3.

2 Cor 3
7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away ==============================

(So then the moral law of God is being affirmed by all of scripture "the Law and the Prophets" a term that specifies all of OT "scripture")

Matt 22 "On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.

Luke 16:16 "The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it."

Any part of scripture read could fall under that title.

Acts 13:15 And after the reading of the Law and the Prophets, the rulers of the synagogue sent to them, saying, Men and brethren, if you have any word of exhortation for the people, say on.

=================================

Rom 7
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.


Rom 13
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this,
Thou shalt not commit adultery,
Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal,
Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Thou shalt not covet;

and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.


James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, ou shall love your neighbor as yourself, (Lev 19:18) you are doing well.
9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said,
Do not commit adultery
also said,
Do not commit murder.
Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty

1 John 5
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

 

[BobRyan]

Hello Bob.
The verses I quoted speak for themselves.

Romans 6
14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

Romans 6
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!

Romans 7
4 Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that
we might bear fruit for God.

The tiny snips you quote??

The verses I quote from Romans 6 - speak for themselves pointing out all the details others 'need to avoid' when quoting Romans 6. as we already saw -- on page ONE.


Romans 6
6 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?

What IS SIN?
"SIN IS Transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4 - even in the NT

Romans 6
6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7 for he who has died is freed from sin.

10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, 13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! 16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, 18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.

20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death. 22 But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[bloodygrace]

The wild speculation that God's Commandments - God's Ten Commandments are always quoted from Ex 20 in negative terms in the NT - is totally false -- and we both know it.

A commandment keeper is someone who keeps the new commandment of love, Bob! You're a law breaker not a law keeper. If the scribes and pharisees ever started a church it would look just your church. Exalt the law and diminish Christ and his gospel.

 

[BobRyan]

A commandment keeper is someone who keeps the new commandment of love, Bob!

The New commandment of "love your neighbor are yourself" Lev 19:18, Romans 13, Matt 19?

The "new" Commandment of "love God with all our heart" Deut 6:5?

Just now "NEW" is this supposed to be in that wild speculation?

You're a law breaker not a law keeper.

Revelation 12 - Satan is the accuser of the brethren -- I think we all already know that.

Exalt the law and diminish Christ and his gospel.

Amazing example of "you quoting you" to make up doctrine

"Do we then make VOID the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLiSH the LAW" Rom 3:31

I am going with the actual Bible on this one.

That includes the Romans 6 details posted - that you are ignoring.

 

[bloodygrace]

Establishing the law is 'faith expressed in love' Gal. 5:6 No Sabbath keeping required!

 

[BobRyan]

Establishing the law is 'faith expressed in love' Gal. 5:6 No Sabbath keeping required!

For all eternity after the cross "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" - Is 66:23

 

[klutedavid]

The tiny snips you quote??

The verses I quote from Romans 6 - speak for themselves pointing out all the details others 'need to avoid' when quoting Romans 6. as we already saw -- on page ONE.


Romans 6
6 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?

What IS SIN?
"SIN IS Transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4 - even in the NT

Romans 6
6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7 for he who has died is freed from sin.

10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, 13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! 16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, 18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.

20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death. 22 But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Hello Bob.

Read chapter six of Romans over and over again. In time, you
will see exactly what Paul is saying.

 

[bloodygrace]

For all eternity after the cross "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" - Is 66:23

Sabbath keeping for the SDA is the ultimate expression of will worship. I'm going to keep the Sabbath even if it kills me. Jesus, the cross and his resurrection are inconsequential to such as you. May the Lord have mercy on your soul.

 

[BobRyan]

Hello Bob.

Read chapter six of Romans over and over again.

we seldom get that sort of friendly invitation about Romans 6 --

gladly --



Romans 6
6 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?

What IS SIN?
"SIN IS Transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4 - even in the NT

Romans 6
6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7 for he who has died is freed from sin.

10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, 13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! 16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, 18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.

20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death. 22 But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.