Role of baptism in salvation

[cloudyday2]

I find it sort of amusing to see an atheist try to explain salvation. How can you sit there and type about what salvation is when you don't even believe in the Almighty Creator?
Psalms 53:1

Same way I can speculate about quantum mechanics when I don't know beans about physics. Hooray for the internet!

Actually, I was asked what I meant by "true follower of Christ". I wanted to explain that the phrase means nothing to me, because I have never seen salvation as a true/false attribute - even when I was a Christian.

EDIT: I guess the phrase means somebody who is really trying to be a Christian. That's all it means to me now. I know it means more to others of course.

 

[Albion]

What has happened here is that the topic--Baptism--has been switched to the subject of Salvation itself, mainly by one poster whose view of Baptism is that it is a ritualized testimonial engaged in by one who has had a conversion experience already.

 

[golgotha61]

Same way I can speculate about quantum mechanics when I don't know beans about physics. Hooray for the internet!

Actually, I was asked what I meant by "true follower of Christ". I wanted to explain that the phrase means nothing to me, because I have never seen salvation as a true/false attribute - even when I was a Christian.

EDIT: I guess the phrase means somebody who is really trying to be a Christian. That's all it means to me now. I know it means more to others of course.

Albion is right; my post was off the OP topic. Would you consider starting a new thread that would be addressed to Soteriology? There are some things that I would like to discuss with you.

 

[Albion]

Albion is right; my post was off the OP topic. Would you consider starting a new thread that would be addressed to Soteriology? There are some things that I would like to discuss with you.

FWIW, you were not the person I had in mind. Anyway, we all wander on these threads, and we all get caught up in the discussion after it's gone off-topic, so criticizing anyone wasn't the real issue. I was just hoping we would get back to the topic (if anyone thinks there's any more to say about it).

 

[cloudyday2]

Albion is right; my post was off the OP topic. Would you consider starting a new thread that would be addressed to Soteriology? There are some things that I would like to discuss with you.

I created a new thread for soteriology as suggested
http://www.christianforums.com/threads/apostacy-and-salvation.7900833/

 

[tturt]

"Of the doctrine of baptisms,..." Heb 6:2

1 - By The Holy Spirit into Yeshua is baptism for salvation
(Mark 1:4, 16:16; Luk 3:3; 1 Cor 12:13: Acts 2:38: Gal 3:27)

2 - water baptized by other believers (Matt 28:19)

3 - Yeshua baptizes believers into The Holy Spirit
(Matt 3:11; Mark 1:8, 3:11; Luke 3:16; Acts 1:8, 11:16);

Yeshua's blood, water, and His Spirit (I John 5:8).

 

[BeStill&Know]

"Of the doctrine of baptisms,..." Heb 6:2

1 - By The Holy Spirit into Yeshua is baptism for salvation
(Mark 1:4, 16:16; Luk 3:3; 1 Cor 12:13: Acts 2:38: Gal 3:27)

2 - water baptized by other believers (Matt 28:19)

3 - Yeshua baptizes believers into The Holy Spirit
(Matt 3:11; Mark 1:8, 3:11; Luke 3:16; Acts 1:8, 11:16);

Yeshua's blood, water, and His Spirit (I John 5:8).

This is a good post for Bellathebluejay OP questioning Baptism.

 

[tturt]

When there seems to be a contradiction in Scripture, think there's a piece of information that's missing. Wondered about the thief on the cross when looking at other Scriptures that seemed to state baptism was necessary. Then ran across that the first baptism is received upon salvation, it becomes line upon line, precept upon precept for me.

 

[BeStill&Know]

When there seems to be a contradiction in Scripture, think there's a piece of information that's missing. Wondered about the thief on the cross when looking at other Scriptures that seemed to state baptism was necessary. Then ran across that the first baptism is received upon salvation, it becomes line upon line, precept upon precept for me.

Good morning, yes what you say is true, but would you help me understand by further explaining "Then ran across that the first baptism is received upon salvation"?

 

[NJA]

When there seems to be a contradiction in Scripture, think there's a piece of information that's missing. Wondered about the thief on the cross when looking at other Scriptures that seemed to state baptism was necessary. Then ran across that the first baptism is received upon salvation, it becomes line upon line, precept upon precept for me.

Where does the bible say the thief received salvation?

Some people take Jesus words "this day you shall be with me in paradise" to mean that, but Jesus was not in heaven that day, he was buried in the tomb in the garden, (when he later appeared to Mary she thougt he was the gardener). Isaiah says he would make his grave with the wicked, and John 3:13 says that no man has ascended to heaven, 1 Corinthians 15 also teaches this.

Also, if the thief was sincere, it would have been a comfort to Jesus that at last someone recognised Hiom and Lord and was going to bring a Kingdom, thereby breaking the prophecy:

"Reproach hath broken my heart; and I am full of heaviness: and I looked for some to take pity, but there was none; and for comforters, but I found none.
They gave me also gall for my meat; and in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink" (Ps 69:20-21)

Also, if the thief really did have that revelation, how come the other 2 accounts say that both thieves were speaking mockingly to jesus at precisely that time (immediately before the darkness of came at noon)!

But even if the thief was sincere and will be saved, it is still a red herring, not something that people today should base their salvation doctrine on.

The simple fact (that many churches and their followers don't appreciate) is that New Testament salvation didn't begin until Pentecost when the Spirit was given.
The thief, like Noah, Abraham etc died before that.

So, water baptism was commanded then, as the answer of a good conscience toward God, identifying with Jesus death, accepting "no confuidencve in the flesh" - so bury it.

 

[tturt]

Response to post #89, BeStill&Know, "explaining "Then ran across that the first baptism is received upon salvation"?

When I realized that the first baptism isn't water baptism then ""He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; ..." (Mark 16:16) makes sense.

The first baptism is when we repent.
-"And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;" Luke 3:3
-The Holy Spirit baptizes us into Yeshua, the body. "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit." I Cor 12:13

There's water baptism (Mark 1:8).

Also, Yeshua baptizes believers with The Holy Spirit "... he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:" Matt 3:11

 

[BeStill&Know]

Response to post #89, BeStill&Know, "explaining "Then ran across that the first baptism is received upon salvation"?

When I realized that the first baptism isn't water baptism then ""He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; ..." (Mark 16:16) makes sense.

The first baptism is when we repent.
-"And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;" Luke 3:3
-The Holy Spirit baptizes us into Yeshua, the body. "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit." I Cor 12:13

There's water baptism (Mark 1:8).

Also, Yeshua baptizes believers with The Holy Spirit "... he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:" Matt 3:11

Beautiful isn't it. Thank you for taking the time to explain. In my research on Bible.org I found that the word can also be used as . Isaiah 21:4 in the literally reads "lawlessness baptizes me," having the sense of "overwhelms me...and in other places too. But it was translated in different ways in various versions, not using the word baptize. So it could also read the Holy Spirit overwhelms me, I guess in the other scriptures.

 

[tturt]

Yes, beautiful.

Beginning to look at being sealed. Seems like our Heavenly Father seals
us but will study. Do you have any insight?

 

[nightflight]

,

 

[BeStill&Know]

Yes, beautiful.

Beginning to look at being sealed. Seems like our Heavenly Father seals
us but will study. Do you have any insight?

No not yet, but anxious to see what you find, right up my alley.

 

[BeStill&Know]

,

what does , mean?

 

[tturt]

When we receive salvation, our Heavenly Father seals us with The Holy Spirit (II Cor 4 1:21-22; Eph 1:13-14,; 4:30; 2 Tim 2:19; Acts 2:38; John 3:33; 14:26). A seal may signify a marked possession by a specific owner, a finished transaction, security and protection, or authorization to act on one's behalf. Of course, it's interwoven, who does the sealing, Yahweh, places His seal, The Holy Spirit, on His firm foundation, Yeshua.

 

[BeStill&Know]

When we receive salvation, our Heavenly Father seals us with The Holy Spirit (II Cor 4 1:21-22; Eph 1:13-14,; 4:30; 2 Tim 2:19; Acts 2:38; John 3:33; 14:26). A seal may signify a marked possession by a specific owner, a finished transaction, security and protection, or authorization to act on one's behalf. Of course, it's interwoven, who does the sealing, Yahweh, places His seal, The Holy Spirit, on His firm foundation, Yeshua.

If there was a "Love Button" I would click on that. I copied this to add to my morning devotional. Thank You.

 

[tturt]

Glad it was meaningful. Also, thankful Yahweh is light.

 

[nightflight]

what does , mean?

It means I chickened out.