REWORDED: Can SALVATION be gained without repentance?

[Elijah2]

Repentance is not about sin. A man can stop “sinful” behavior and yet have no relationship with God. He can trade his dead worldly life for an equally dead religious one.

So, to say one must stop sinning to receive salvation is not exactly correct. As T said, Repentance is about turning from our own way and submitting to God’s way.

Jesus warned that in the judgment many would extol all that they had done in the name of Jesus, and Jesus will say to them “Depart from me, I never knew you”

It is in the “knowing” where we find life and the power to overcome.


John O.

Hi John O,

I think you have yourself mixed up mate, because repentance has a lot to do with sin: "Repent therefore and be converted so that your sins may be blotted out” (Acts 3:19)

I don't think anyone was saying that we must stop sinning to receive salvation, because Salvation is a Gift of God, and if you don't "repent" then you won't be "converted", which in my books means "to be saved". So once you are "saved" and then you start sinning again, you are still "saved", but as HE says that if you keep sinning, then you won't "inherit His Kingdom"!

No repentance has nothing to do with your way and submitting to God's way, it all come down to submission to His Word and our Lord Jesus Christ, then the enemy will flee, which means you will stop sinning if you obey His Word and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Yep, HE sure will say that: "Depart from ME, I never knew you!" That means you will not inherit His Kingdom! No eternal - everlasting life!

To overcome anything that is of Satan and his forces, can only be done by obeying His Word and HIM, and be disciplined in our life with our Lord Jesus Christ. Only His POWER and AUTHORITY will help us to overcome and conquer anything that is wrong and not good for us.

 

[Elijah2]

I'm sorry. I don't mean to, but I guess I am wondering if when Jesus asked for forgiveness for his murderers, did that make them saved, or did they still have to confess Him as Lord?

Those who put our Lord Jesus Christ had no real understanding what they were doing and who they were killing. Actually, I believe that our Lord Jesus Christ was interceding for their executioners. And it has nothing to do with conversion (salvation). I guess after HIS death, some may have become a believer.

 

[Elijah2]

Where I am on this is that there is a sin that can and does nullify a person's salvation, the unpardonable sin, the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 12:31-32, And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

I don't believe christians living a life of sin will nullify their salvation unless that life style of sin so hardens their hearts that they then reject the Holy Spirit. We can't sin our way out of salvation, but the life of sin can so harden us that we reject God and the gift He gave us. I believe that is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, the rejection of him.

I believe that if you are saved, then you receive His Gift of Salvation, and if you backslide out of the church you are still "saved", you don't lose your "salvation". But, you can end up in hell if you reject HIM, or commit sins that causes the lose of inheritance of His Kingdom, lose of eternal life.

 

[nephilimiyr]

I believe that if you are saved, then you receive His Gift of Salvation, and if you backslide out of the church you are still "saved", you don't lose your "salvation". But, you can end up in hell if you reject HIM, or commit sins that causes the lose of inheritance of His Kingdom, lose of eternal life.

I agree with you for the most part but please clarify on these sins you are talking about that will cause you to lose your eternal life. You apear to be saying these sins are not apart of backsliding?

 

[Elijah2]

I agree with you for the most part but please clarify on these sins you are talking about that will cause you to lose your eternal life. You apear to be saying these sins are not apart of backsliding?

Nope said nothing about backsliding, but talking about those sins and "an the like" sins, as listed in these Scriptures:

“No, you yourselves do wrong and cheat, and you do these things to your brethren! Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.” (1 Cor. 6:8-10)

“ [ Our Final Victory ] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.” (1 Cor. 15:50)

“Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.” (Gal. 5:19-21)

“But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.” (Eph. 5:3-6)

 

[Cassidy]

You do realise that our bodies are riddled with sin don't you? That's why it's dead. Have you looked in the mirror lately? See those wrinkles? That's sin! You're body is dead in sin. But it has been quickened by the Holy Ghost and one day our bodies will be glorified...so all that sin....NO it will not enter heaven because our sinful selves will be changed...just like Christ's sinful body was changed.

You underestimate the power of the Holy Ghost if you think that sin is going to cause us to miss out on eternal life.

 

[Elijah2]

You do realise that our bodies are riddled with sin don't you? That's why it's dead. Have you looked in the mirror lately? See those wrinkles? That's sin! You're body is dead in sin. But it has been quickened by the Holy Ghost and one day our bodies will be glorified...so all that sin....NO it will not enter heaven because our sinful selves will be changed...just like Christ's sinful body was changed.

You underestimate the power of the Holy Ghost if you think that sin is going to cause us to miss out on eternal life.

Those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God, which in my understanding means "NO ETERNAL LIFE"!

 

[Cassidy]

Then Christ died for nothing? Because you see...all those things are sins and those sins died along with Chris...he paid the ultermate price so that we do not have to.

Shall we sin so that grace may abound....are you serious? We are dead in sin how is it even possible that we continue in it!

Again...Elijah you underestemate the power of the Holy Ghost. You don't seem to understand what it means to be born again if you truly believe that those who are born again would continue to commit such things with no repercussions in their everyday life and no discipline from their Father in heaven, and not guidance...AND you don't seem to understand the importance of God's ability to keep his own, if you think that any sin is going to keep them from eternal life.

 

[Optimax]

Hi again!

I realize that I did not make my question in my other thread very clear. I was not speaking of people, once they are saved, who have not repented of certain sins and whether or not they would receive ongoing forgiveness. Nor was I speaking of whether or not we should forgive people who have not repented. I was speaking of people who had not yet confessed Jesus as Lord and received Him as Savior. Specifically, the people in Luke 23:34 whom Jesus asks the Father to forgive. Were those people, who killed Jesus, and had not yet confessed Jesus as Lord, saved, based on Jesus, in His mercy, crying out for forgiveness for them? And if so, then how does this coincide with our need for a personal confessing of Jesus as Lord and Savior in order to receive remission of our sins? If Jesus could wash away their sins and save them, even though they had not been born again through accepting Him as Savior and being born again, then how is that possible?

Hope that helps!

Pam

There is a huge difference in having a sin forgiven and having sins remitted.

The only time remission of sins occur is when a person is born again.

Having a sin forgiven by God does not save ("fix") the problem that is in man without Jesus.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Nope said nothing about backsliding,

Why do I even try?

You said this "and if you backslide out of the church you are still "saved", you don't lose your "salvation".

Then I ask for clarification and say this "You appear to be saying these sins are not apart of backsliding? Than you say "Nope said nothing about backsliding".

Foiled with you again!

 

[nephilimiyr]

Those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God, which in my understanding means "NO ETERNAL LIFE"!

When our body and soul commits sin, does our born again spirit sin along with them?

 

[Cassidy]

Nope!!!

Christ's body was riddled with sin...and yet he still inherited the kingdom right?

 

[nephilimiyr]

Nope!!!

Christ's body was riddled with sin...and yet he still inherited the kingdom right?

Yep, thank you for answering the question correctly Cassidy.

 

[Cassidy]

I think what some people dont' seem to understand is that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God anyway. So the fleshy part of us that sins...and we all do....isn't going to inherit the kingdom anyway. Hello!

Christ's body was glorified...it had the sins of the world on him...his body died because of this sin (the wages of sin) and we too share in his death and ressurection...our body is dead in sin too....and our body will be glorified just like his...so the fleshy/sinful part of us will be done away with, well, it's already done away with really

 

[nephilimiyr]

I think what some people dont' seem to understand is that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God anyway. So the fleshy part of us that sins...and we all do....isn't going to inherit the kingdom anyway. Hello!

Exactly, it doesn't matter whether you practise sin, are in a sin habit, or simply just sin every once in a while, whatever that means. The born again spirit in us is what makes us righteous and holy so that we can go to heaven, no matter how many sins you see on your record.

In order to recieve this born again spirit we needed to have a heart of repentence and repent, but once that is done it takes alot more than just losing a heart of repentence for you to reject the spirit that God has created in you.

Christ's body was glorified...it had the sins of the world on him...his body died because of this sin (the wages of sin) and we too share in his death and ressurection...our body is dead in sin too....and our body will be glorified just like his...so the fleshy/sinful part of us will be done away with, well, it's already done away with really

That's exactly right, we were baptised into his death so that we may also partake in his resurrection, Romans 6:3-7.

 

[Floatingaxe]

2 Corinthians 7:10 CEV
When God makes you feel sorry enough to turn to him and be saved, you don't have anything to feel bad about. But when this world makes you feel sorry, it can cause your death.

Without godly sorrow, there is no repentance and without repentance there is no forgiveness.

 

[Peaceful Dove]

My answer is, NOPE.

 

[Cassidy]

In order to recieve this born again spirit we needed to have a heart of repentence and repent, but once that is done it takes alot more than just losing a heart of repentence for you to reject the spirit that God has created in you.

Can you even lose a heart of repentence? That'd be like losing the Holy Spirit.

 

[Elijah2]

When our body and soul commits sin, does our born again spirit sin along with them?

Good question, but a spirit doesn't sin that is why we pray "forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one." And that is why we "seek first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness".

That is why HE said to forgive those who trespass against us."

"Then we remove the plank from our eye, and then we will see clearly from our own eye."

"Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your Name, cast out demons in Your Name, and done many wonders in Your Name. And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness'"

"An you will be hated by all for MY Name's sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved."

"Do not fear those who kill the body, but cannot kill the soul. But, rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

"For My yoke is easy, and MY burden is light."

The Holy Spirit who is dwelling in our spirit reminds us of these Scriptures when we sin, causing our heart of our "soul" to be convicted.

 

[Elijah2]

Exactly, it doesn't matter whether you practise sin, are in a sin habit, or simply just sin every once in a while, whatever that means. The born again spirit in us is what makes us righteous and holy so that we can go to heaven, no matter how many sins you see on your record.

In order to recieve this born again spirit we needed to have a heart of repentence and repent, but once that is done it takes alot more than just losing a heart of repentence for you to reject the spirit that God has created in you.


That's exactly right, we were baptised into his death so that we may also partake in his resurrection, Romans 6:3-7.

Come on mate, if you sin you are unrighteous, and when you confess and repent your sin, then you become forgiven, but it doesn't mean you are righteous. You are righteous by your walk in HIM, then how can you claim to be righteous because the Holy Spirit is dwelling in your spirit.

"Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body (body and soul)...don't present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin...whether of sin leading to death or of obedience leading to righteousness."

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness."

"And when we confess our sins, HE is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we haven't sinned, we make HIM a liar, and His Word is not in us."

"All unrighteousness is sin."