Requirements? Can one lose salvation?

[Neogaia777]

Is one requirement after being saved, in order to maintain and not lose that salvation is to be "trying" or working, or in the process of "Perfecting" ones self... Since God's standard is perfection (Matthew 5:48)

Some would say that the final destiny of man is to become "Like Christ" or to be "Perfected" or become "perfect"... This part of the context is necessary and urgent, because the Bible explains, there will be a Judgement day, and, in the words of Jesus, the standard which will be required of every person is to "Be perfect" (Matthew 5:48).

But, we can't all become the same, each of us is different, and that will never change therefore, "Perfection" or being "perfected" or "perfect" must be different for each person, one person that has been perfected and become perfect in themselves in the eyes of God, will be different from another one who has become "Perfected" or perfect, right? This process of being in the process of being perfected we call sanctification...

Is doing or trying to do your best in the process of sanctification, required to keep or maintain salvation? Or does it just determine your place and position in Heaven, and not your getting in?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

God's word says that only "some" will be saved out the world, not "all", so their must be some kind of basis, and therefore "requirements" by which God judges one from the other...

And, don't tell me that "It is all the ones calling upon and believing in Jesus name, that will be saved (chosen to go to heaven by God) Because Jesus himself says, "Not all those saying to me "Lord, Lord" will get into the kingdom of God (Heaven), but the ones "doing" the will of my Father will."

So, there's two requirements right there, "The ones believing and calling upon my (Jesus) name" and "those "doing" the will of the/my Father in Heaven will" be saved (spared)...

And what is "the will of the Father"? Well I garauntee you "part" of it, (the parts that I know anyways) is what I've already stated that one be at least "trying" at/in the process of sanctification, one doing their their best (and God knows who's trying and who's not) in the process of perfecting themselves in Love...

Doing good to and by and loving others, and I think it is in Gods will for us to strive for "world peace" and harmony and that everyone learns to go by the golden rule that Jesus taught us, I think God's will for the world is world peace, but I also think he is going to have do away with the wickedness in the world and shake things up a bit (tribulation) before this can be achieved/attained/fulfilled...

I think his will for individuals is to be born again, changing our former ways and adopting, new Holy, acceptable ones, that we fully face and "put to death" our former, wicked, sinful self and be "born again" with a new self, and a new spirit, the Holy Spirit indwelling us teaching and training us up in the way which is right and good and Holy and acceptable to God and is in line with God's will at some point in our individual lives. This is what I am working on (with Jesus help, of course)

These are just pieces of what I think God's will to be, if I went into them all there would be a whole book on the subject...

God Bless!

 

[fozzy]

After being saved our job from that point on is to continue to believe. Work is a deceptive term and is the enemy of faith. Only Christ's work is accepted by the Father and we receive this perfect work by faith.

In a typical Christian's life their faith is what goes up and down not their works or amount of works. The oldest lie in the book is those with more works are better that those with less works. The truth is that those with stronger faith are more mature than those with weaker faith or no faith at all.

 

[BryanW92]

Is one requirement after being saved, in order to maintain and not lose that salvation is to be "trying" or working, or in the process of "Perfecting" ones self... Since God's standard is perfection (Matthew 5:48)

Some would say that the final destiny of man is to become "Like Christ" or to be "Perfected" or become "perfect"... This part of the context is necessary and urgent, because the Bible explains, there will be a Judgement day, and, in the words of Jesus, the standard which will be required of every person is to "Be perfect" (Matthew 5:48).

But, we can't all become the same, each of us is different, and that will never change therefore, "Perfection" or being "perfected" or "perfect" must be different for each person, one person that has been perfected and become perfect in themselves in the eyes of God, will be different from another one who has become "Perfected" or perfect, right? This process of being in the process of being perfected we call sanctification...

Is doing or trying to do your best in the process of sanctification, required to keep or maintain salvation? Or does it just determine your place and position in Heaven, and not your getting in?

God Bless!

This is an question that will remain unanswered until we get to Heaven. If you have Arminian theology, the answer is that you are working for sanctification and can lose salvation. If you are Calvinist, you will receive sanctification and can never lose salvation--if you ever had it.

Before you throw out the "but we're non-denominational here" comment, keep in mind that non-denoms usually fall into one of the two major theology camps, just as the denominations do. Both theologies have ample bible verses to back up their claims, which is why I say that it is one of the great mysteries that we will never figure out on earth.

 

[Rubiks]

Salvation cannot be lost. Once we trust in Christ as our savior, HE will direct our paths. Don't feel bad if you feel you aren't trying the hardest you can to live a godly life. No one is like that, we still live in sinful bodies.

 

[jbearnolimits]

This is an question that will remain unanswered until we get to Heaven.

This is a thought I have seen many times. I think God has already answered all of our questions. We just have to search for it in the Bible. There really is no need or excuse for Christians to have different and contradictory views. We only have them because of a lack of understanding, or a desire to have it our way.

For more info on that thought please see: How To Know What Is Truth - False Doctrine

And for the opening post I would like to give you a link to a study I did on this as well: Can You Lose Salvation - Continue In Faith and this one may also help Grace Or The Law - What Are We Under

 

[Gunny]

Salvation cannot be lost. Once we trust in Christ as our savior, HE will direct our paths.

"My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no can snatch them out of my Father's hand".

John 10:27-29
NIV

 

[BryanW92]

This is a thought I have seen many times. I think God has already answered all of our questions. We just have to search for it in the Bible. There really is no need or excuse for Christians to have different and contradictory views. We only have them because of a lack of understanding, or a desire to have it our way.

For more info on that thought please see: How To Know What Is Truth - False Doctrine

And for the opening post I would like to give you a link to a study I did on this as well: Can You Lose Salvation - Continue In Faith and this one may also help Grace Or The Law - What Are We Under

That's my point. Someone else can produce proofs that say the exact opposite using scripture. In this area, we can not know and we really don't have to know. We place our trust in Jesus and he isn't lying or that he isn't going snatch the salvation football away at the last second. In the case of the two big soteriologies, they have been debated and studied for hundreds of years by countless people and we aren't one inch closer to coming to an agreement.

But, scripture does not give a clear step-by-step procedure and that's not a matter of not understanding. It is a matter of God not telling us. A Christian should be content with that. Yes, all that is in scripture is good for teaaching, etc. But, the opposite is not true that all we want to teach is found in scripture. Some things are meant to be a mystery.

 

[peterandrewj]

Do all who receive the word sown in their heart, bear fruit?

Do all who receive Christ inherit the kingdom?

Do all who come to the faith endure to the end?

Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

 

[fozzy]

This is an question that will remain unanswered until we get to Heaven. If you have Arminian theology, the answer is that you are working for sanctification and can lose salvation. If you are Calvinist, you will receive sanctification and can never lose salvation--if you ever had it.

Before you throw out the "but we're non-denominational here" comment, keep in mind that non-denoms usually fall into one of the two major theology camps, just as the denominations do. Both theologies have ample bible verses to back up their claims, which is why I say that it is one of the great mysteries that we will never figure out on earth.

Both of these schools of thought are extremes of position. Calvin tried to remove man from the equation and Arminius tried to remove God from the equation. The truth lies somewhere in between. Our part in the gospel equation is infinitely smaller than God's part for Christ has done everything but we do have a part to play. Faith is a requirement in the new testament. 'Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved'.

 

[fozzy]

Salvation cannot be lost. Once we trust in Christ as our savior, HE will direct our paths. Don't feel bad if you feel you aren't trying the hardest you can to live a godly life. No one is like that, we still live in sinful bodies.

Salvation can be lost. Whether those who lose it ever truly had it is debatable. They were on the fence and fell off on the wrong side. There are a thousand ways to make shipwreck of our faith in Christ.

 

[thesunisout]

Is one requirement after being saved, in order to maintain and not lose that salvation is to be "trying" or working, or in the process of "Perfecting" ones self... Since God's standard is perfection (Matthew 5:48)

Some would say that the final destiny of man is to become "Like Christ" or to be "Perfected" or become "perfect"... This part of the context is necessary and urgent, because the Bible explains, there will be a Judgement day, and, in the words of Jesus, the standard which will be required of every person is to "Be perfect" (Matthew 5:48).

But, we can't all become the same, each of us is different, and that will never change therefore, "Perfection" or being "perfected" or "perfect" must be different for each person, one person that has been perfected and become perfect in themselves in the eyes of God, will be different from another one who has become "Perfected" or perfect, right? This process of being in the process of being perfected we call sanctification...

Is doing or trying to do your best in the process of sanctification, required to keep or maintain salvation? Or does it just determine your place and position in Heaven, and not your getting in?

God Bless!

John 6:28 Then they said to Him, What shall we do that we might work the works of God?
John 6:29 Jesus answered and said to them, This is the work of God, that you believe on Him whom He has sent.

The foremost will of the Father for us is that we believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. This is the work God has given us to do. It is only through that work that any other works are possible:

John 15:5 I am the Vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, the same brings forth much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.

We cannot do any other works without Christ, so it follows that to do any works for God we must be abiding in Christ. It is only an abiding faith which is a true faith:

Hebrews 10:32-39 But call to memory the former days, in which (after you were illuminated) you endured a great fight of afflictions, indeed being exposed both by reproaches and afflictions, and while you became companions of those who lived so.

For you both sympathized with my bonds and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that you have in Heaven a better and an enduring substance.

Therefore do not cast away your confidence, which has great recompense of reward. For you have need of patience, so that after you have done the will of God you might receive the promise.

For "yet a little while, and He who shall come will come and will not delay."
Now, "the Just shall live by faith. But if he draws back, My soul shall have no pleasure in him."

But we are not of those withdrawing to destruction, but of those who believe to the preserving of the soul.

We must believe until the end. Jesus said those who endure to the end will be saved. That means we must abide in Him until the end. If we will not abide in Him we will be cast out:

John 15:6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered. And they gather and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

So, it is not a matter of doing a certain number of works to be saved, it is a matter of believing on Him whom the Father sent. If we believe on Him, we will do all manner of good works because faith without works is dead. It is the faith that leads to works, and a faith that produces good works is a saving faith. We can lose our salvation if we turn away from Christ and will not abide in Him:

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
Hebrews 6:5 and have tasted the good Word of God and the powers of the world to come,
Hebrews 6:6 and who have fallen away; it is impossible, I say, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify the Son of God afresh to themselves and put Him to an open shame.

Those branches, as the scripture said, as gathered into the fire and burned.

 

[BryanW92]

Both of these schools of thought are extremes of position. Calvin tried to remove man from the equation and Arminius tried to remove God from the equation. The truth lies somewhere in between. Our part in the gospel equation is infinitely smaller than God's part for Christ has done everything but we do have a part to play. Faith is a requirement in the new testament. 'Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved'.

The caricatures of each school are extreme. In reality, neither removes anything from the equation. All they do is bias the equation on side or the other. If you study both by reading the works of people who supported each school and not by reading the works of critics, you find that they aren't that far apart.

But, in the question posed by the OP (loss of salvation), they do differ quite a bit and that's why I mentioned them.

 

[fozzy]

The caricatures of each school are extreme. In reality, neither removes anything from the equation. All they do is bias the equation on side or the other. If you study both by reading the works of people who supported each school and not by reading the works of critics, you find that they aren't that far apart.

But, in the question posed by the OP (loss of salvation), they do differ quite a bit and that's why I mentioned them.

So in your opinion how would one lose his or her Salvation? We know that Christ has done all and is in all but ultimately many will fall short and lose out on eternal life. Calvin but the blame on God saying that he chose some certain persons before time to inherit eternal life while Arminius puts the blame on man who did not work hard enough and ends up with a legalistic position. Is there a third option because I do not like either of those?

 

[1watchman]

Thank God He gave true "born again" believers 1 Jn. 1:9-10 to restore us who fail daily.

Fozzy, there is a "third option" and it is believing the Word. Both Calvin and Arminius were wrong --like many ultra conservatives and ultra liberals in society today --extremists. If one is a real "child of God" they are sealed by the indwelling Holy Spirit forever; however, one can suffer loss of rewards in Heaven at the "Judgment Seat Of Christ" for dwelling in sin now (carnality).

 

[Neogaia777]

After being saved our job from that point on is to continue to believe. Work is a deceptive term and is the enemy of faith. Only Christ's work is accepted by the Father and we receive this perfect work by faith.

In a typical Christian's life their faith is what goes up and down not their works or amount of works. The oldest lie in the book is those with more works are better that those with less works. The truth is that those with stronger faith are more mature than those with weaker faith or no faith at all.

Salvation cannot be lost. Once we trust in Christ as our savior, HE will direct our paths. Don't feel bad if you feel you aren't trying the hardest you can to live a godly life. No one is like that, we still live in sinful bodies.

don't tell me that "It is all the ones calling upon and believing in Jesus name, that will be saved (chosen to go to heaven by God) Because Jesus himself says, "Not all those saying to me "Lord, Lord" will get into the kingdom of God (Heaven), but the ones "doing" the will of my Father will."

So, there's two requirements right there, "The ones believing and calling upon my (Jesus) name" and "those "doing" the will of the/my Father in Heaven will" be saved (spared)...

And what is "the will of the Father"? Well I garauntee you "part" of it, (the parts that I know anyways) is what I've already stated that one be at least "trying" at/in the process of sanctification, one doing their their best (and God knows who's trying and who's not, and if they are not he knows the circumstances of/as to the reasons) in the process of perfecting themselves in Love...

If once after you have been saved "Love" alone does not move you to try your best and do good works, out of and because and in the sake of Love alone, then I would question your supposed salvation... If your not moved to do fine works, to seek out and "do" what will of the Father is out of Love, then I would question whether or not you really do have the Love of God in you, if it does not move you to good works...

God Bless!

 

[BryanW92]

So in your opinion how would one lose his or her Salvation? We know that Christ has done all and is in all but ultimately many will fall short and lose out on eternal life. Calvin but the blame on God saying that he chose some certain persons before time to inherit eternal life while Arminius puts the blame on man who did not work hard enough and ends up with a legalistic position. Is there a third option because I do not like either of those?

That's the problem. It doesn't matter what we like. We like to think that we are God's partner in our salvation. The very idea that we can "fall short and lose out on eternal life" is fully Arminian. When the creator God of the universe, through Jesus Christ, has redeemed you, how can an insignificant human break that great work?

 

[peterandrewj]

The question, can you lose your salvation, either puts God on trial or gives everyone whom he has called an escape from running and finishing the race. To me it offers nothing but strife.

Salvation is a gift, by grace through faith. So the question should be, can you lose your faith?

Forget the differences between wheat and tares, between faith without works and faith with works, between the carnal and the spiritual, between they that sleep and they that keep watch.

Will unbelief cause you to lose salvation? The answer seems obvious.

I like what AW Pink said about it 75 years ago. The following is an excerpt from one of his sermons:

“They omit the divine call to repentance, saying nothing about the necessity of forsaking our sins. They lay no stress upon regeneration in being made new creatures in Christ. Instead, they declare that the sinner has simply to accept Christ as his personal Savior – though his heart may still be proud, without contrition, and thoroughly in love with the world – and that eternal life is his today.”

“The result of this preaching is well calculated to bolster up the deluded. Instead of insisting that saving faith is evidenced by its spiritual fruits, instead of teaching that the Christian life is a warfare against the world, the flesh, and the devil, and that none but the overcomer will reach heaven, they assure them that no matter how carnal their walk, that “once saved always saved”, and thus they are soothed in their sins, and comforted with a false peace until they awake in hell.”

“Shun all such preaching, my reader, as you would a deadly plague. “
Proverbs 19:27 Cease, my son, to hear the instruction that causeth to err from the words of knowledge

A.W. Pink (1886 – 1952) *Taken from an article titled “Licentious Preaching”

 

[Neogaia777]

They omit the divine call to repentance, saying nothing about the necessity of forsaking our sins. They lay no stress upon regeneration in being made new creatures in Christ. Instead, they declare that the sinner has simply to accept Christ as his personal Savior – though his heart may still be proud, without contrition, and thoroughly in love with the world – and that eternal life is his today.”

Your talking here about "doing" the second part of what Jesus said was required, the only "work" required and that is to be seeking out and "doing" God's will in your life...

God Bless!

 

[jbearnolimits]

That's my point. Someone else can produce proofs that say the exact opposite using scripture. In this area, we can not know and we really don't have to know.

I agree that God has held some mysteries back (such as the case of the 7 thunders in Revelation). But in matters like this where the Bible has a lot to say I think we can know the truth. I also think we HAVE to know the truth. Because without it we will never be sure of our salvation (which is the whole reason Jesus died for us)!

I would like to encourage people to read this again How To Know What Is Truth - False Doctrine.

Here is the test for pure doctrine:

1. Do the scriptures teach it?
2. Do the scriptures say anything contrary to it?
3. Is there a bridge between the two?

If we find someone bring scripture that is believed to be contrary to another scripture then one of us (if not both) has a wrong idea of what the scriptures are saying.

We have to test the opposing doctrine as well at that point.

For example, I may tell someone that God is full of wrath and will smite every wicked person. I will even bring scripture into this that shows it to be true.

But you may say, God is a merciful God and will not smite anyone because of His love. You can then show all of the verses about His mercy.

As you can see the two views are contradictory at face value. So then we both must acknowledge that one or both of us may be wrong. How do we find out which one?

We have two different sets of scriptures saying what seems to be opposite. But there is a third set that we have not talked about. This third set says God will have mercy on those who call on Jesus and turn from their wicked ways, and those who do not do so will have His wrath.

Thus we see that we were both wrong about our extreme views. But when we bridge them with the scriptures we see the truth meet in the middle.

Now having said that I would like to use a word of warning. When we have a bad foundation we can not stand in the truth. If we believe the scripture is the final authority and we stand on that then we are safe because Gods word will not contradict itself (there will always be a bridge).

But if we do not trust in the scriptures we are subject to every wind and wave of doctrine. Take the doctrine of faith for example. Why do you think people often don't have what they ask for in faith? Maybe it is because they are not using real faith, but a passing doctrine that says faith is simply believing something. (in case anyone wants to read about that What Is Faith - How To Use It)

So we can know the truth...or else we would never have a firm foundation about anything. Thus our faith would easily crumble. Because we have no set and solid standard.