Repentance before Baptisim...really?

[W2L]

That is based on the assumption that the person is guided by the Holy Spirit.
Experience shows that this is RARELY the case. Modern trends in Christianity has made it more of a heresy factory than anything else.

Tell me that after RC and EO fix their own discord. A man with a log in his eye cant see clearly enough to work on mine. I'll steer clear of your discord and allow the Lord to lead.

 

[sculleywr]

Thus error upon error is born.

Niet. Thus obedience to God's command is born. Are you saying that people obeying God's appointment of teachers, preachers, and leaders is the cause of error? That means that GOD is the cause of error. And since God is the cause of error, how can you know He doesn't lead you into error? HE obviously led the Church into error by appointing teachers.

Error is born when one decides that he can survive on his own without the Body of Christ, forsaking the PHYSICAL assembling of the brethren, relying on his own personal perception and private interpretation of Scripture. Private interpretation ALWAYS leads to error, because it is ALWAYS the result of pride and arrogance. Private interpretation is saying "I know better than Christ, because I do not need teachers, even though it is Christ Who appoints them."

 

[sculleywr]

Tell me that after RC and EO fix their own discord. A man with a log in his eye cant see clearly enough to work on mine. I'll steer clear of your discord and allow the Lord to lead.

You defend your creation of discord by accusing others who stand strong on the existence of Truth with discord? You are a tool of division, nothing else.

 

[Widlast]

Tell me that after RC and EO fix their own discord. A man with a log in his eye cant see clearly enough to work on mine. I'll steer clear of your discord and allow the Lord to lead.

What discord are you speaking of?

What I see if among evangelicals is a bunch of folks who all claim to be led by God, but can't agree on much of anything. A lot like the new agers, everyone claims they have the "real spirit" speaking to them, but none agree.

If these people have the Holy Spirit, and He has led them to all truths, why are so many of them blithering idiots?

 

[Standing Up]

Your point is well taken. Thank you.

I'm guessing that the reason for baptism changed centuries ago from "body of Christ" thus immediate to "body of Church (RC, EO, P)" thus the delay for that group's thinking.

 

[Standing Up]

Those were not examples of the ordinary man without knowledge of God of any sort. Cornelius, the eunuch, Lydia, and the jailor all had knowledge of the prophecies of Scripture, and heresies had not had much time to take hold and grow as they had by the time of Nicaea, when these multi-year periods are seen.

So my point just posted.

 

[sculleywr]

What discord are you speaking of?

What I see if among evangelicals is a bunch of folks who all claim to be led by God, but can't agree on much of anything. A lot like the new agers, everyone claims they have the "real spirit" speaking to them, but none agree.

If these people have the Holy Spirit, and He has led them to all truths, why are so many of them blithering idiots?

he believes that if you put any doctrine whatsoever over his idea of unity, which is apparently sitting in a circle singing Kum-ba-yah while ignoring any of the important questions of "Who is God" and "how are we to be saved".

 

[sculleywr]

So my point just posted.

I'll take one order of "make sense of this post", please.

 

[W2L]

why are so many of them blithering idiots?

Please, that tone isn't needed.

 

[W2L]

he believes that if you put any doctrine whatsoever over his idea of unity, which is apparently sitting in a circle singing Kum-ba-yah while ignoring any of the important questions of "Who is God" and "how are we to be saved".

You are clueless about my beliefs.

 

[sculleywr]

You are clueless about my beliefs.

I'm not the only one. Aside from your belief that not all of Scripture applies to you in the way the Apostles intended it. The Apostles didn't intend people to "assemble" by means of a glorified postal service. The only kind of assembling they knew was to come together physically. In point of fact, that is the definition of the Greek word episynagoge used in the passage:

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G1997&t=KJV

1. a gathering together in one place

So don't tell me that you believe in true unity when you don't even believe in superficial unity of being together with real people. Your only partner is made up of this:

01001001 00100000 01110010 01100101 01101010 01100101 01100011 01110100 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 00100000 01100111 01100001 01110100 01101000 01100101 01110010 01101001 01101110 01100111 00100000 01101111 01100110 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 00100000 01100010 01110010 01100101 01110100 01101000 01110010 01100101 01101110 00101110

 

[sculleywr]

Please, that tone isn't needed.

Scripture says there are many fools. Fool is pretty much the same as blithering idiot. He didn't call any individual a blithering idiot. He simply said many idiots exist. And that's pretty evident from the fact that we somehow managed to nominate the two most hated presidential candidates ever.

 

[W2L]

Scripture says there are many fools. Fool is pretty much the same as blithering idiot. He didn't call any individual a blithering idiot. He simply said many idiots exist. And that's pretty evident from the fact that we somehow managed to nominate the two most hated presidential candidates ever.

Neither RC or EO is without error, so you both shouldn't be so harsh, but instead more graceful.

 

[smithed64]

Ok so tell me, what is the person repenting from?
How does he know he did something wrong? He has to learn from another sinful human as you said?
How does he know what IS WRONG?
How does he know what IS SIN?

Changing your mind from what? You need to know what you are doing wrong, you need to know what Sin is, inorder to change your mind. - Its not that difficult.

There is two types of repentance used in the bible.

Metanoia a transformative change of heart; especially: a spiritual conversion."[1] The term suggests repudiation, change of mind, repentance, and atonement; but "conversion" and "reformation" may best approximate its connotation.[2] In The King James Version of the Bible, its verbal cognate metanoeo/μετανοέω is translated as repent.[3] As shown in Psalms 51

metamelomai.” This word is used to show a change of mind, such as to produce regret or even remorse on account of sin, but not necessarily a change of heart. This word is used to describe the repentance of Judas (Matthew 27:3).

What someone is repenting of....is sin.

What is sin?

1 John 3:4King James Version (KJV)
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

He is repenting for salvation, from the wrath of God.

Romans 5:9King James Version (KJV)
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

1 Thessalonians 5:9King James Version (KJV)
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

How does He know he did something wrong? You tell Him, using the law.
For the law is perfect in convicting the soul, it is the schoolmaster which brings people to Christ

Psalm 19:7King James Version (KJV)
7 The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.

Galatians 3:24King James Version (KJV)
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

We should do it just the way Jesus did it, with the woman at the well in John 4:7-26

1. Jesus began n the natural realm (v.7)
2. Jesus swung the conversation to the spiritual realm (v.10)
3. Jesus brought conviction using the Law of God (vv. 16-18)
4. Jesus revealed Himself to her (v. 26)

There is a right way to spread the Gospel.

 

[W2L]

I'm not the only one. Aside from your belief that not all of Scripture applies to you in the way the Apostles intended it. The Apostles didn't intend people to "assemble" by means of a glorified postal service. The only kind of assembling they knew was to come together physically. In point of fact, that is the definition of the Greek word episynagoge used in the passage:

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G1997&t=KJV

1. a gathering together in one place

So don't tell me that you believe in true unity when you don't even believe in superficial unity of being together with real people. Your only partner is made up of this:

01001001 00100000 01110010 01100101 01101010 01100101 01100011 01110100 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 00100000 01100111 01100001 01110100 01101000 01100101 01110010 01101001 01101110 01100111 00100000 01101111 01100110 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 00100000 01100010 01110010 01100101 01110100 01101000 01110010 01100101 01101110 00101110

No wonder this website is so contentious and lacking respectability. Posters like yourself don't respect it.

 

[Widlast]

Neither RC or EO is without error, so you both shouldn't be so harsh, but instead more graceful.

I never stated that they are without error, that knowledge is far above my pay grade, and your's also. You are not in the position to know what errors the elder churches may or may not contain, being that your judgment is based on your own very limited knowledge.

You come across as thoroughly arrogant.

 

[Wordkeeper]

Repentance
The term suggests repudiation, change of mind, repentance, and atonement; but "conversion" and "reformation" may best approximate its connotation.[2]In The King James Version of the Bible, its verbal cognate metanoeo/μετανοέω is translated as repent.[3]As shown in Psalms 51

metamelomai.” This word is used to show a change of mind, such as to produce regret or even remorse on account of sin, but not necessarily a change of heart. This word is used to describe the repentance of Judas (Matthew 27:3).

What someone is repenting of....is sin.

God is set up antithetically against the world, not sin:

Matthew 6
24one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and wealth.

What is sin?

Sin is serving the world, for wealth, rather than God, in blessing mankind. In essence, it means you are not loving God with all your being, your fellow human beings as yourself. In fleshing out, it could mean that serving the world manifests itself in attempts to acquire success in wealth, relationships or power. Just as we see the world as antithetical to God, we can see attempts to succeed in acquiring wealth, relationships or power as antithetical to loving others. Competition has victims, losers. Serving others is a win win situation.

He is repenting for salvation, from the wrath of God.

The wrath is against not serving others. John the Forerunner's remedial advice to escape wrath was to serve others.

How does He know he did something wrong?

God gave everyone a conscience. What was the only advantage the Jew had? He was the keeper of prophecy, oracles. Not that he could unlock them, that job was reserved for Messiah.

For the law is perfect in convicting the soul, it is the schoolmaster which brings people to Christ.

Pedagogos was the slave who escorted the family children to school. We should retain that idea, impression, of the role, when trying to understand the message. Today the school bus is the equivalent.

Both pedagogos and bus ensured the safety of the child from home to school. A babysitter ensures the safety of the child until the return of the parents. Instead of schoolmaster, a better description is 'guardian'.

We should do it just the way Jesus did it, with the woman at the well inJohn 4:7-26

1. Jesus began n the natural realm (v.7)
2. Jesus swung the conversation to the spiritual realm (v.10)
3. Jesus brought conviction using the Law of God (vv. 16-18)
4. Jesus revealed Himself to her (v. 26)

Again, the intention was to set up God and the world in antithesis. The world and it's temporary quenching of thirst with physical water, God and His permanent filling up with living waters, flowing over to bring to life dead bones.

There is a right way to spread the Gospel.

Amen. So let's get back on track

 

[W2L]

I never stated that they are without error, that knowledge is far above my pay grade, and your's also. You are not in the position to know what errors the elder churches may or may not contain, being that your judgment is based on your own very limited knowledge.

You come across as thoroughly arrogant.

Speak for yourself please, i'll make my own judgments for myself. You come across as arrogant as well, presuming to be my judge in such matters. You cant even judge yourself, what makes you think you can make such judgments for someone else?

 

[YHWH's Lion]

Everyone who has been following this Post has a decision to make, either they can accept God’s own definition on what GOD says SIN is :

1 John 3:4
Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.


Romans 6:14-15
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for you are not under the law, but under grace.
What then? shall we sin (transgress the law) because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.


Or they can ignore God’s own definition and pretend it doesn’t exist and instead blindly follow the teachings of MEN that contradict GOD himself.

We cant blindly follow MEN but we MUST confirm every teaching against the Word of God, and if that teaching contradicts God’s own teaching than we must REJECT that teacher. God may have appointed some people to be teachers but Satan is out to corrupt and destroy the Truth of God so we should always test everything any teachers teaches against God’s Word. History is full examples of Teachers that are supposed to teach God’s Word but instead they lie to the people. (indulgences are a great example of this)

If you blindly follow tradition you are no different than the Pharisees, as Jesus said:

“Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.8 For laying aside the commandment of God.”

The Holy Spirit will NEVER convict you to think that it is OK to go against God’s own teachings. If it does.. it is not the Holy Spirit.. If you love God with all your heart you will want to do what he says and if God says XYZ is SIN than you should NOT do those things, doesn’t matter what you think or what anyone else says.

One day when you stall stand before the throne of God and he asks you why you didn’t listen to HIS own definition of what SIN is but instead chose to purposely live a life of SIN, your explanation :

- I chose to follow the teachings of MEN instead of you God because I thought that they knew better than you God of what You considered SIN.-

Than Jesus will turn to you and say “Depart from me you workers of LAWESSNESS, I never new you”
“For you SINNED willfully after you received the knowledge of truth and there remains no more for you a sacrifice for SIN.“

This is very serious Brothers and I urge you to repent and turn from what GOD defines as SIN.

 

[sculleywr]

Neither RC or EO is without error, so you both shouldn't be so harsh, but instead more graceful.

If there isn't a place where God preserved the whole Truth, then God didn't preserve the Truth and doesn't exist because the Scripture lies and says that God will deliver the Truth only once. If He didn't preserve it in the Church, then He didn't preserve it. You're not claiming He preserved it. You're claiming to be the recipient of a brand new delivering. Sorry, but Jude 3 says that your new delivering is the delivery of a lie. The Faith was delivered once, for all Saints. The Faith that was True when Ignatius was dying for the Faith is the same Faith that is True today. Either that Faith was preserved as Scripture says it was preserved, or Scripture is a lie and Christ is just a man with no salvation for us. In other words, if what you are saying about all churches being in error is true, then Christianity itself is error. Not just Catholics or Protestants. Christ Himself is a liar, for His prophecy failed, and therefore He deserved His death.

So, did Christ preserve the Church, or is Christ a liar?