Remain Barren and Do Not Travail With Child

[1whirlwind]

Isaiah 54:1 "Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife," saith the LORD.

We are the married wife...He is our husband so what is meant by that verse? Are we not to have children? Jesus too said.....
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Luke 23:27-29 And there followed Him a great company of people, and of women, which also bewailed and lamented Him. But Jesus turning unto them said, "Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for Me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children. For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, 'Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.'
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This is spiritual in meaning. Those having children in those verses are those (men and women) that fall into idolatry/adultery with Satan, the desolate one. Those that are blessed are those that remain true, (barren), and wait for His return.
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54:4-5 Fear not; for thou shalt not be ashamed: neither be thou confounded; for thou shalt not be put to shame: for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more. For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is His name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall He be called.

We will not take part in the great apostasy by being confounded, confused, by his false religion of deception when he will pretend to be our husband...the true Savior.
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54:6-8 For the LORD hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused," saith thy God. "For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee. In a little wrath I hid My face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee," saith the LORD thy Redeemer.

There is a short span of time, five months, when the world will be tested. That "small moment" when His face is hidden from us. That time of wrath is the wrath of Satan...his great tribulation, his hour of temptation. God's elect will stand during that time and wait for Him.
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54:9 "For this is as the waters of Noah unto Me: for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee.

The five month period of Satan's great tribulation is "as the waters of Noah," for the waters of Noah lasted a five month period.....

Genesis 7:24 And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.
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Those waters are from the mouth of Satan...a flood of lies, an overflowing scourge.

Isaiah 28:15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

Revelation 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
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54:13-14 And all thy children shall be taught of the LORD; and great shall be the peace of thy children. In righteousness shalt thou be established: thou shalt be far from oppression; for thou shalt not fear: and from terror; for it shall not come near thee.

54:15-16 Behold, they shall surely gather together, but not by Me: Whosoever shall gather together against thee shall fall for thy sake. Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.

The waster was created to destroy those that don't remain barren, those that commit adultery/idolatry with Satan. They gather against us in the great spiritual battle....Armageddon.
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[Hammster]

Or, Jesus is saying that since Jerusalem is going to fall, and it will be bad, it is better for those who don't have children. Not everything has to be spiritualized. Some things are just as they are.

 

[1whirlwind]

Or, Jesus is saying that since Jerusalem is going to fall, and it will be bad, it is better for those who don't have children. Not everything has to be spiritualized. Some things are just as they are.

11 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

John 4:23-24 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship Him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth.

 

[Hammster]

11 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.



John 4:23-24 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship Him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth.

Thank you. You've just proved my point.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Or, Jesus is saying that since Jerusalem is going to fall, and it will be bad, it is better for those who don't have children. Not everything has to be spiritualized. Some things are just as they are.

Tis true

Matt 24:19 "Woe yet to those in belly having and to those suckling/qhlazousaiV <2337> (5723) in those the days!
20 Be ye praying yet that no may be becoming the flight of ye of winter neither a Sabbath."

 

[1whirlwind]

Thank you. You've just proved my point.

The verses I quoted don't tell us to see the letter of the word...as you suggest we should.

To use the example given by Little Lamb....

Matthew 24:19-20 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
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That too is in reference to falling into apostasy...becoming pregnant with Satan's lies or giving suck...helping his vile religion.


If we were to take this literally, the letter of the word, and "remain barren" there wouldn't be many of us here right now. It is spiritual.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

*snip*54:13-14 And all thy children shall be taught of the LORD; and great shall be the peace of thy children. In righteousness shalt thou be established: thou shalt be far from oppression; for thou shalt not fear: and from terror; for it shall not come near thee.

54:15-16 Behold, they shall surely gather together, but not by Me: Whosoever shall gather together against thee shall fall for thy sake. Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.

The waster was created to destroy those that don't remain barren, those that commit adultery/idolatry with Satan. They gather against us in the great spiritual battle....Armageddon.
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It seems that satan your refering to is law?

Galations 4:27b
“ Rejoice, O barren,
You who do not bear!
Break forth and shout,
You who are not in labor!
For the desolate has many more children
Than she who has a husband.”
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise.
29 But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now.
30 Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.”
31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.

 

[1whirlwind]

It seems that satan your refering to is law?

Galations 4:27b
“ Rejoice, O barren,
You who do not bear!
Break forth and shout,
You who are not in labor!
For the desolate has many more children
Than she who has a husband.”
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise.
29 But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now.
30 Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.”
31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.

The children of the bondwoman are those that fall for deception...commit adultery/idolatry with the desolator. Is part of that seeing only the letter of the Word? Yes, it is for "the letter killeth." The children of the free woman remain true by seeing the Spirit for the spirit giveth life. To repeat a verse from your quote....

Galatians 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh perscuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
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[Citizen of the Kingdom]

The children of the bondwoman are those that fall for deception...commit adultery/idolatry with the desolator. Is part of that seeing only the letter of the Word? Yes, it is for "the letter killeth." The children of the free woman remain true by seeing the Spirit for the spirit giveth life. To repeat a verse from your quote....

Galatians 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh perscuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
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The children of the bondwoman are those of the earthly Jerusalem.

Gal 4:24These things may be taken figuratively, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. 25Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother

The spirit is in the revelation, the letter isn't.

Heb 4:12For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. 13Nothing in all creation is hidden from God's sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

 

[Hammster]

11 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.



John 4:23-24 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship Him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth.

Do you understand these passages literally, or do you spiritualize them?

 

[1whirlwind]

The children of the bondwoman are those of the earthly Jerusalem.

The spirit is in the revelation, the letter isn't.[/quote]


I agree.

 

[1whirlwind]

11 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.



John 4:23-24 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship Him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth.


Do you understand these passages literally, or do you spiritualize them?

I see them spiritually for the "letter" would not kill you physically.

 

[Hammster]

I see them spiritually for the "letter" would not kill you physically.

If you see them spiritually, then what meaning do they hold outside the plain reading that we see?

iow, if they aren't saying what seems to be fairly straightforward, then what are they saying?

 

[1whirlwind]

If you see them spiritually, then what meaning do they hold outside the plain reading that we see?

iow, if they aren't saying what seems to be fairly straightforward, then what are they saying?

11 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

To me, it tells us we are to allow the Spirit to reveal the meaning of His Word and that meaning is not the literal interpretation, the carnal meaning. The spirit makes the Word come alive. The above verse is the plain reading of the spiritual teaching.
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[Hammster]

11 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.



To me, it tells us we are to allow the Spirit to reveal the meaning of His Word and that meaning is not the literal interpretation, the carnal meaning. The spirit makes the Word come alive. The above verse is the plain reading of the spiritual teaching.

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So there is no spiritual reading of that verse? It is plain in its meaning?

 

[1whirlwind]

So there is no spiritual reading of that verse? It is plain in its meaning?

I don't know how one that teaches one should not attribute a spiritual meaning would see it. I can only tell you the meaning I see therein.

Are other scriptures that plain in their meaning? Are the verses quoted in the OP plain in their meaning or are they to be seen as instructed in the Corinthians verse...spiritually?

To me, there is no doubt we are to see...truly see and hear what is written and one can only do that if the Spirit gives life to the words. Other than that they are "the letter"...not life.

 

[Hammster]

I don't know how one that teaches one should not attribute a spiritual meaning would see it. I can only tell you the meaning I see therein.



Are other scriptures that plain in their meaning? Are the verses quoted in the OP plain in their meaning or are they to be seen as instructed in the Corinthians verse...spiritually?



To me, there is no doubt we are to see...truly see and hear what is written and one can only do that if the Spirit gives life to the words. Other than that they are "the letter"...not life.

When the Spirit gives life to His words, He is causing a believer to believe them. Or allowing, depending on how you want to look at it. That is the distinction mandatory in 1 Corinthians 2:14. A non-believer will read scripture and will think it's silly. It isn't that they can't understand. They just don't believe. However, believers look at scripture, and they believe it to be truth.

What doesn't happen, though, is scripture somehow having a hidden, deeper meaning that one has to pray to understand. Some may be difficult to understand, granted. But that means we have to work harder to understand it. But we can't just make those thing that are difficult into parables or analogies just because they are difficult, or in some cases, because they go against what we've been taught.

 

[1whirlwind]

When the Spirit gives life to His words, He is causing a believer to believe them. Or allowing, depending on how you want to look at it. That is the distinction mandatory in 1 Corinthians 2:14. A non-believer will read scripture and will think it's silly. It isn't that they can't understand. They just don't believe. However, believers look at scripture, and they believe it to be truth.

What doesn't happen, though, is scripture somehow having a hidden, deeper meaning that one has to pray to understand. Some may be difficult to understand, granted. But that means we have to work harder to understand it. But we can't just make those thing that are difficult into parables or analogies just because they are difficult, or in some cases, because they go against what we've been taught.

It is more than believing or not believing what is written. There are layers to Scripture and the Holy Spirit teaches us what is there. We can all read what the letter says but the Spirit shows the deeper meaning and gives life.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
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Whatever He said unto us is written. The Holy Spirit doesn't teach us to read those words but rather to understand those words. Not the milk of the word but the meat. The milk, as the former rain, brings us to Him making us begin to grow but it is the meat, the latter rain, that gives us strength and causes us to produce fruit.

Joel 2:23 Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and He will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first (month).
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[Hammster]

It is more than believing or not believing what is written. There are layers to Scripture and the Holy Spirit teaches us what is there. We can all read what the letter says but the Spirit shows the deeper meaning and gives life.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

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Whatever He said unto us is written. The Holy Spirit doesn't teach us to read those words but rather to understand those words. Not the milk of the word but the meat. The milk, as the former rain, brings us to Him making us begin to grow but it is the meat, the latter rain, that gives us strength and causes us to produce fruit.

Joel 2:23 Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and He will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first (month).

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The problem with your apparent way if going about it is that you can make any passage say what you think it means, even if it goes against a plain reading, and say "the Spirit revealed this to me". That is dangerous.

 

[1whirlwind]

The problem with your apparent way if going about it is that you can make any passage say what you think it means, even if it goes against a plain reading, and say "the Spirit revealed this to me". That is dangerous.

And in what way do you see what is written in the OP as "dangerous" to understand?