Religion Sucks

[Itagaki]

Religion in itself does not "suck". Man made traditions that have been added may "suck". The term religion is pure though, in and of itself.

Uhhhh...... that's an interesting theory.

 

[seekertruth72]

Again, by "fear" is meant "awe."

I don't bend my knee(s) in genuflection at church out of terror, but awe and wonderment. When He comes again and I am resurrected, again, I won't genuflect out of terror or fear or dred, but awe, wonderment, and in acknowledgement of my Lord and God.

If we are motivated by fear, we have not yet grasped the very heart of Christianity. Christianity is not a Machiavellian faith.

Ok, to each their own. Wonderment doesn't cause me to depart from iniquity but fear does, i'll fear Him and receive His mercy and instruction, its served me well so far.

What is the warning about Hell if not fear?


Luk 12:4 And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.
Luk_12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

 

[PaladinValer]

Ok, to each their own. Wonderment doesn't cause me to depart from iniquity but fear does, i'll fear Him and receive His mercy and instruction, its served me well so far.

This is not orthodox Christian theology.

God is Love, not dred, fear, etc. You don't fear love; you are in awe of it and embrace it.

What is the warning about Hell if not fear?

Hell is for those who reject love. To quote the ancient Bishop of Smyra, St. Polycarp the Martyr, "he who has love is far from all sin".

If we fear God, then we haven't truly embraced the love of God. I do not fear truth nor hell.

 

[LaSpino3]

Elgibbor, First I would like to note that you took on the name Elgibbor. In the Hebrew it means, the Mighty-God. Curious, why would you write an article like this, yet take one of God's titles, if you don't believe there is a god at all?

Sound fishy to me; that is, unless you believe your some sort of god? Now that may be possible. Now if god does not exist, your basicity saying your name is based on your fears, hmmmm, OK! your words, not mine.

Now you used words, and comments about the rest of us, such as; humans are the ancestor of primates; thinking had to be developed: awareness of future danger had to be developed; as also, the fear of death. Man invented a soul; then realized he needed a god, and from his imaginations, which never existed, man invented God; is this correct?

So, I would have to say your an atheist; correct? You believe man, as well as everything else has evolved from nothing?

So your believe system is rooted in evolution. That nothing created something, no conscience evolved into conscience; no thoughts evolved into thought; no love, hate, or patience, evolved into love, hate, and patience. Lets not leave out kindness, consideration, sex, marriage etc. Consider light, and color: have these evolved from black and white, which is impossible because black and white are not colors at all.

So let me draw your conclusion for you. You have concluded, there is no "First cause," because nothing existed except an effect without a cause. Meaning an effect was the first cause which is absolutely impossible, right?

It sounds like hog-wash to me!

Then you talk of fighting others, and butchering our neighbors, blaming others instead of blaming ourselves. Even if there were no God as you say, man would blame others for everything that is wrong in their lives.

Many atheist blame others for everything from dirty dishes, to corrupt, and immoral acts. But if there is no God, what would you consider corrupt, and immoral? Corruption and immorality would have to be based on each individuals personal opinion of right and wrong; is that not corect?

Therefore, rape, murder, theft, war, etc. are neither right or wrong if there is no higher standard to compare these things to. And if there is no god, then these things would only depend on who has the most guns, is this not correct? So this years corruption may be next years good deed.

If you like I can discuss the balance of your article. I can't say God bless you because you don't believe in God, but I can say good luck on your random chances for getting through tomorrow.

Phil LaSpino

 

[seekertruth72]

This is not orthodox Christian theology.

God is Love, not dred, fear, etc. You don't fear love; you are in awe of it and embrace it.



Hell is for those who reject love. To quote the ancient Bishop of Smyra, St. Polycarp the Martyr, "he who has love is far from all sin".

If we fear God, then we haven't truly embraced the love of God. I do not fear truth nor hell.

I love God, i love His correction, you seem to misunderstand Godly fear. Its taught throughout the bible. Its a good thing, God shows mercy and love to them that humble themselves and fear Him, not torment. I dont fear love, i fear disobeying God, i fear my own pride and unrighteousness, i fear not following the Lord and doing the things he says. If you don't fear the truth then don't fear Godly fear.

 

[PaladinValer]

I love God, i love His correction, you seem to misunderstand Godly fear.

I understand and comprehend it all too well...that it doesn't exist.

Its taught throughout the bible. Its a good thing, God shows mercy and love to them that humble themselves and fear Him, not torment. I dont fear love, i fear disobeying God, i fear my own pride and unrighteousness, i fear not following the Lord and doing the things he says. If you don't fear the truth then don't fear Godly fear.

I fear nothing, for I have been made free in Holy Baptism and thereby have God the Holy Spirit there with me to help me choose and to sanctify all I do insofar as I cooperate with Him.

There is no fear in orthodoxy. None.

 

[Elgibbor]

The purpose of this forum is for non-Christians to ask Christians questions about Christianity. So do you have a question or did you just come here to insult us and see how many false statements about our religion you could cram into one post?

Ok, does Religion suck? And which statements in the OP do you think are false and why?

 

[Optimax]

Might I suggest etymology and historical research? Because the record is very clear as is the very word "religion" itself that Christianity is a religion.

What record do you think is clear?

 

[Elgibbor]

Elgibbor, First I would like to note that you took on the name Elgibbor. In the Hebrew it means, the Mighty-God. Curious, why would you write an article like this, yet take one of God's titles, if you don't believe there is a god at all?

I took the name from the Polish Christian/Unblack metal band. It's a one man project so i believe. The guy used to be a Satanist before becoming a Christian. See here: Encyclopaedia Metallum: The Metal Archives - Elgibbor
Although i consider myself agnostic( and not atheist,) i do like listening to Christian rock and metal music as the quality of the music is very good in general.
I will address your other points later.(If i haven't been banned lol)

 

[seekertruth72]

I understand and comprehend it all too well...that it doesn't exist.



I fear nothing, for I have been made free in Holy Baptism and thereby have God the Holy Spirit there with me to help me choose and to sanctify all I do insofar as I cooperate with Him.

There is no fear in orthodoxy. None.

Godly fear comes from the HS in my opinion, it tells me not to argue, not to sin, not to be proud and think highly of myself. And if i sense any of those things creep up in me i fear doing those things, and i get on my face and pray. Is this not the holy Spirit? Is it not good, clean Godly fear that leads to repentance and obeying God?

 

[PaladinValer]

Godly fear comes from the HS in my opinion, it tells me not to argue, not to sin, not to be proud and think highly of myself.

We do not require fear to do those things.

We should want to do those things out of love of God, not fear of Him.

The whole idea of fear is based on Patripassianism anyway, not orthodoxy.

And if i sense any of those things creep up in me i fear doing those things, and i get on my face and pray. Is this not the holy Spirit?

No.

Is it not good, clean Godly fear that leads to repentance and obeying God?

No,

We repent and obey correctly only out of love, not and never fear.

 

[seekertruth72]

We do not require fear to do those things.

We should want to do those things out of love of God, not fear of Him.

The whole idea of fear is based on Patripassianism anyway, not orthodoxy.



No.



No,

We repent and obey correctly only out of love, not and never fear.

You don't know what you are talking about. I do want to do those things, but there is that thing called the flesh that wars against the spirit. I'm just being honest, i don't pretend i'm holier than thou. and i dont judge you, so why should you seem to be judging me? Should you not say amen brother?

 

[abysmul]

I agree with you about religion.

However, a relationship with God through Jesus brings true life.

 

[seekertruth72]

I agree with you about religion.

However, a relationship with God through Jesus brings true life.

Amen. Without the Lord i would be miserable and hopeless. I don't know all things, but He leads me, this i'm sure of.

Satan cannot cast out satan. However im being lead, if it leads me to humble myself before God and seek obedience to Him by faith in Christ, then it must be the Lord leading me. Satan would not want me to fear obeying my flesh, surely its good godly fear. And i am happy and joyful when i submit to it, so it cannot be bad. But my faith must be in Christ and not works, only through Christ do we live and obey God.

 

[Optimax]

.

Religion=relationship. That's what Christianity has always taught. Pop theology doesn't change eternal truth.

Religion = knowing about God.

Christianity = Knowing God.

Consider this verse as well as John 17:3

1 Cor 1:9
God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord. KJV

Fellowship is knowing. It is a relationship when you know Jesus, not just some things about Him.

 

[GrayAngel]

People believe in God because of 3 fears that they allow to rule their lives. As we primates developed an ability to think abstractly and not only became self aware but became future aware and knew one day we would die, the fear of death caused us to invent a "soul" to mitigate the horrible thought of no longer existing at some point in time.

So what you're saying is that religion is something we've been biologically adapted to have? As in, it was beneficial to us to have it?

The soul needed a creator and redeemer, thus a god was invented also.
As we became smarter, more analytical, and had significant knowledge to pass down from one generation to another we became very powerful indeed. Rather than simply fighting over territory with the tribe next door, we could plan out their demise and carry it out. But with power, also comes an awesome responsibility of which we feared. Thus, when we did something horrible, like butcher the tribe next door, or if something horrible happened to us like we died of disease because we didn't know about proper sanitation, it was "god's will." Rather than accept responsbility we now have someone we can blame it on. A couple I know recently accidently got pregnant while the girl was on some major meds for an unrelated problem. They're religious so won't consider an abortion even though the meds may have a terrible impact on the fetus. Their response? "God put us in this position" It apparently had little to do with them.

Oh, dear God! This couple actually thought it would be better to not murder their children because of a possible defect!? What monsters!

Are you joking? Christians are more responsible for their actions than anyone else. If we're right, we have God to explain ourselves to. If you're right, we don't.

Abuse of authority exists everywhere. With or without a god to blame, it makes no difference. They'd do exactly the same things anyway.

The last fear is insidious. It is a mental virus. Early in the first milennia AD, there was a big political movement to try to convert as many people as possible to christianity. So Hell was invented as a scare tactic. If you didn't have faith, if you didn't convert, if you didn't pay money to the churches, there would be Hell to pay! The movement hit critical mass and to this day, some of the first concepts children are taught is this horrible place called hell where the "loving god" sends you to be burned for all eternity if you don't blindly follow every doctrine. In short, it is a brainwashing scheme perpetrated on people at the youngest age possible, which is why religious people stay religious.

1. Hell was not invented in the first century. It existed long before that with the Jews, and also the Greeks who had a general "Hades" that no one could escape unless they became a god.

2. Hell is not a place of literal fire and where all people go if they're not Christian. Those are symbolic descriptors, just like those used for Heaven. Hell is a place where people get what they deserve, based on all the bad and good they had done in life. It's different from Heaven because a) they're separated from God and b) the bad in their lives had not been washed over yet.

3. The fear of Hell was not emphasized until the Catholic church came into power, and they screwed up Christian theology so badly that protestants are still trying--with varying levels of success--to pick up the pieces.

So there you have it. The causes of religious fanaticism and adherence:
(1) The fear of death
(2) The fear of responsibility
(3) The fear of Hell

The two highlighted are reasons for irreligious fanaticism. You don't have to be afraid of responsibility if there's no God as a moral guide. There's no fear of Hell if there's no Hell to fear.

 

[seekertruth72]

S

3. The fear of Hell was not emphasized until the Catholic church came into power, and they screwed up Christian theology so badly that protestants are still trying--with varying levels of success--to pick up the pieces.

I thought Jesus emphasized the fear of Hell.

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Luk_12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.


Mat 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Mat 25:35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Mat 25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Mat 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
Mat 25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
Mat 25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

[Daniel25]

People believe in God because of 3 fears that they allow to rule their lives. As we primates developed an ability to think abstractly and not only became self aware but became future aware and knew one day we would die, the fear of death caused us to invent a "soul" to mitigate the horrible thought of no longer existing at some point in time. The soul needed a creator and redeemer, thus a god was invented also.
As we became smarter, more analytical, and had significant knowledge to pass down from one generation to another we became very powerful indeed. Rather than simply fighting over territory with the tribe next door, we could plan out their demise and carry it out. But with power, also comes an awesome responsibility of which we feared. Thus, when we did something horrible, like butcher the tribe next door, or if something horrible happened to us like we died of disease because we didn't know about proper sanitation, it was "god's will." Rather than accept responsbility we now have someone we can blame it on. A couple I know recently accidently got pregnant while the girl was on some major meds for an unrelated problem. They're religious so won't consider an abortion even though the meds may have a terrible impact on the fetus. Their response? "God put us in this position" It apparently had little to do with them.
The last fear is insidious. It is a mental virus. Early in the first milennia AD, there was a big political movement to try to convert as many people as possible to christianity. So Hell was invented as a scare tactic. If you didn't have faith, if you didn't convert, if you didn't pay money to the churches, there would be Hell to pay! The movement hit critical mass and to this day, some of the first concepts children are taught is this horrible place called hell where the "loving god" sends you to be burned for all eternity if you don't blindly follow every doctrine. In short, it is a brainwashing scheme perpetrated on people at the youngest age possible, which is why religious people stay religious.
So there you have it. The causes of religious fanaticism and adherence:
(1) The fear of death
(2) The fear of responsibility
(3) The fear of Hell

copy-paste; the sign of a truly liberated mind. Perhaps someday i too will no longer be a sheeple, able to copy-paste other people's chain emails to forums as well!


THE RESPONSIBLITY IS TOO MUCH!!!!

 

[PaladinValer]

You don't know what you are talking about.

Actually, I rather do know.

I do want to do those things, but there is that thing called the flesh that wars against the spirit.

Manichean dualism...

I'm just being honest, i don't pretend i'm holier than thou. and i dont judge you, so why should you seem to be judging me? Should you not say amen brother?

1. I'm not judging you, but the beliefs. You are not your beliefs.
2. I will not amen what is not true.

Religion = knowing about God.

Christianity = Knowing God.

Consider this verse as well as John 17:3

1 Cor 1:9
God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord. KJV

Fellowship is knowing. It is a relationship when you know Jesus, not just some things about Him.

Religion is Relationship. Only in the 1960's did this suddenly change. I have no interest in 1960's pop theology nor should any Christian.

My orthodoxy breeds orthopraxy. That's how both Catholicism and traditional Protestantism and Lutheranism believe. There's no reason to go against what all three groups believe and practice especially when it is the same as that of the Early Church.

 

[seekertruth72]

Actually, I rather do know.



Manichean dualism...



1. I'm not judging you, but the beliefs. You are not your beliefs.
2. I will not amen what is not true.



Religion is Relationship. Only in the 1960's did this suddenly change. I have no interest in 1960's pop theology nor should any Christian.

My orthodoxy breeds orthopraxy. That's how both Catholicism and traditional Protestantism and Lutheranism believe. There's no reason to go against what all three groups believe and practice especially when it is the same as that of the Early Church.

Knowledge puffeth up, charity edifies. Edify me brother. Do you think im alone in believing we should fear God? I have the apostles and the prophets with me, they teach me with the Holy spirit to fear God and also to recieve His mercy and love, whats orthodoxy compared to that? Orthodoxy isn't always right, history has proven that,.



Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
(even Godly fear works for my good.)

Rom 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

Rom 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
Rom 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.