FreeGrace2
Senior Veteran
- Nov 15, 2012
- 20,401
- 1,703
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Constitution
This entire post is in error. So I'll just summarize. I've provided clear verses that remove any possibility of losing salvation, and they are sidestepped by those on your side.What does any of this have to do with what I posted?? It is clear HOW Saul died and WHY. Yet, Saul was going to join Samuel the next day in Paradise.
Our salvation has everything to do with the New Covenant. Gods only begotten Son, Jesus is our Savior.
Yes, they are. But not to "maintain" one's salvation. That would mean that we basically are saving ourselves by our own act of belief. No. It is God who saves us. And He saves us based on the fact that we have believed. The use of the aorist tense proves that God doesn't require on-going faith in order for us to stay saved.
We are saved by the blood of the cross. Jesus is our Lord and Master. We come to the Father through Him. It is Jesus who redeems us once we repent from the sins of our past life. We are renewed, washed clean to begin a new life and turn away from our sinful ways. We place our faith in Jesus, and walk in His Spirit, and follow His lead. If not...what would be the purpose of choosing to be reborn, but to walk in the faith.
No it's not. Once saved, we are new creatures, forgiven, justified, saved, given eternal life (which means it lasts forever). There are no verses that indicate that God removes any of these.
I don't believe anyone said God removes anything. It is by our own free will, it is our choice, not His, to abandon our faith. God does not force us to do anything. Including living in the faith.
In fact, eternal life, a gift of God (Rom 6:23) is also irrevocable (Rom 11:29).
Eternal life can only be given to us by the Father. However, and again, this other passage is seen in a very different way then that of an OSAS believer which has been stated over and over again. I think we can move past arguing about what scripture means to OSAS believers, and those who are not.
One CANNOT obtain salvation by their own choice. It is God's plan and therefore CHOICE to save those who believe. We didn't make that choice, as in "Because I am believing in Your Son You MUST save me" kind of thing.
This...I'm sorry is just wrong. We come to Jesus by choice. We accept Him as our Savior by choice. We believe in Him by choice. We remain in our faith by choice. That is why He gave us free will.
It is God's plan to save those who believe. And He keeps His promise.
Correct and
So, because we aren't saved by free will, we cannot lose it by free will.
We don't have free will?
It isn't our choice anyway. God chose to save us. We didn't choose that. All we can to is receive the free gift of eternal life that He offers to us. And once received, that gift is IRREVOCABLE. That means we can't lose it, give it back, forfeit it, abandon it, etc.
This is repetitive...just saying...
Yes, there is a lot of apostasy. But nothing in Scripture that says that those who abandon the faith will lose their salvation.
Again, this is a different understanding of scripture and what the Bible teaches between these two beliefs of salvation. It's already been covered repetitively. Apostasy is what it is.
That is grace, btw. But those who think that salvation can be lost, etc, seem not to have a very firm grip on grace: what it is, what it means, etc.
Here I will allow another to define grace in all it's splendor and glory. I hope you will take a few moments and read it with an open heart.
God Bless
The True Meaning of Grace
BY WAYNE JACKSON
The concept of Gods grace is thrilling beyond words. It shines its brightest, however, against the backdrop of another aspect of our Creators nature that of sacred wrath.
The most common Greek word for wrath is orge. The term occurs 36 times in the New Testament (cf. Romans 1:18; 2:5). Another expression denoting wrath is thymos (18 times; cf. Revelation 16:19; 19:15). Most scholars make some distinction between the terms. Some suggest that thymos is boiling anger, whereas orge reflects an abiding and settled state of mind. Perhaps the two terms in concert denote the intense and sustained disposition of God towards evil, and those who abandon themselves to it.
But wrath, as used of God, does not suggest an impulsive, emotional reaction, as the term frequently does with humans. Rather, divine wrath is the reflection of a deliberate and measured reaction of a perfectly holy Being toward sin a response that is entirely consistent with the righteous nature of a loving God. Standing over against the starkness of sacred wrath, is the dazzling concept of grace.
Grace Defined
Grace derives from the Greek, charis. In secular Greek, charis was related to chairo, to rejoice. As far back as Homer it denoted sweetness or attractiveness. It came to signify favor, goodwill, and lovingkindness especially as granted by a superior to an inferior.
In the New Testament, grace (156 times) takes on a special redemptive sense in which God makes available his favor on behalf of sinners, who actually do not deserve it.
There is tremendous emphasis in the New Testament upon the fact that human salvation is the result of Heavens grace. This beautiful truth should never be minimized. At the same time, it must not be perverted. Unfortunately, much too often those with only a superficial concept of grace have hijacked the term and foisted upon it a sense alien to scriptural teaching. Let us consider some of the precious Bible truths associated with the concept of salvation by grace.
Encompassing Grace
Gods grace has been offered to the entire human family. For the grace of God hath appeared, bringing salvation to all men . . . (Titus 2:11). This cannot mean that every soul will be saved. Such a conclusion would contradict numerous other passages.
What this does suggest is that Heavens grace is potentially available to all who care to access it by means of the divine plan of redemption (cf. Romans 5:1; 6:3-4,17). This reality is in direct conflict with the Calvinistic notion that God, before the foundation of the world, chose only specific persons to be recipients of his grace.
The Grace/Knowledge Connection
The access to Gods grace is by means of an objective body of revelation. Paul noted: For the grace of God hath appeared . . . instructing us . . . (Titus 2:11-12). Christianity is a taught religion. Isaiah, speaking of the messianic age, exclaimed: . . . he will teach us of his ways . . . (2:3). Jesus himself declared: It is written in the prophets, And they shall all be taught of God. Every one that hath heard from the Father, and has learned, comes unto me (John 6:45).
Gods grace is not dispensed apart from an instruction that requires both understanding and obedience. In these days when there is a tendency to stampede folks into the church, with minimal comprehension of what they are doing, this is a crucial matter to emphasize.
Conditional Grace
The reception of Gods grace is conditional. Calvinism erroneously asserts that grace is bestowed unconditionally by the sovereign will of God. The Bible negates this concept.
The principle is illustrated by the example of Noah, who found grace in the eyes of the Lord (Genesis 6:8); and yet, as the writer of Hebrews shows, the patriarch and his family were saved by preparing an ark in obedience to Gods instruction (11:7; cf. Genesis 6:22). Jehovah proffered the grace. Noah, by faith, obeyed the Lord, and so was blessed. While God extends grace, human beings must be willing to receive the favor (2 Corinthians 6:1).
Grace Is Not Earned
Grace excludes merit. We must constantly remind ourselves that humanity is not deserving of salvation. No one can earn pardon by works of human merit. If such were the case, we could boast regarding our redemption; however, that is impossible (Ephesians 2:8-9).
Even if one were able to perform everything God commands, he still must regard himself as an unprofitable servant (Luke 17:10). Jesus taught that our sins have put us head-over-heels in debt, and no person has the innate ability to liquidate that obligation (cf. Matthew 18:24-27).
When this concept is truly grasped, service to Almighty God will flow with a freshness and zeal that invigorates the soul. Doubtless a failure to fathom the true significance of grace is the reason many church members are spiritually lethargic.
Accessing Grace
Grace is accessed initially at the point of gospel obedience. It is shocking that so many sincere people are unaware of the fact that grace and obedience are not enemies. Paul affirmed that grace is accessed by faith (Romans 5:1-2; Ephesians 2:8-9). It is not, however, a faith void of loving response to God; it is a faith that acts (James 2:21-26).
Consider this fact. In Ephesians 2:8, the apostle states that one is saved by grace through faith. Later, in the same document, he says that sinners are cleansed by the washing of water with the word (5:26). Saved and cleansed represent the same idea. Further, scholars almost universally acknowledge that the washing is an allusion to baptism. It is clear, therefore, that the reception of grace, by means of the faith system, includes immersion in water.
Again, note that eternal life is the result of grace (cf. grace of life, 1 Peter 3:7, i.e., life resulting from grace). But one experiences that life when he is raised from the water of immersion (Romans 6:4). Heavens grace plan system includes obedience.
To express the matter another way, Christ saves us, through the washing of regeneration [acknowledged to be a reference to baptism], and the renewing of the Holy Spirit (Titus 3:5). Yet this is equivalent to being justified by his grace (v. 7). Obedience and grace do not stand in opposition to one another.
Continuing in Grace
The state of grace must be embraced continuously; otherwise one will fall from divine favor, and his initial reception of Heavens grace will have been in vain (2 Corinthians 6:1; cf. 1 Corinthians 15:10).
It is incredible that many, who identify themselves with Christianity, should contend that it is impossible for the Christian to fall from Gods grace.
If one cannot fall out of grace, why did Paul urge his fellow-believers to continue [present tensesustained perseverance] in the grace of God (Acts 13:43)? The Scriptures warn of certain Christians who attempted to revert to the Mosaic regime for salvation. As a result, they were severed from Christ and fallen away from grace (Galatians 3:26-27; 5:4).
Conclusion
Grace is a soul-thrilling concept; it must be deeply appreciated, but never manipulated or distorted.
Believers who remain faithful and obedient are blessed in time and rewarded in eternity. Believers who don't will be disciplined in time and lose rewards in eternity. It's that simple. And it explains all of the warning passages, NONE OF WHICH say anything close to loss of salvation.
Upvote
0