Refuting OSAS in jesus name (2)

[nobdysfool]

The unwillingness to simply accept the clear and obvious truth that eternal life, a gift of God, is irrevocable is astounding to observe!!

But....but....but....we have to WORK for it! it wouldn't be right to accept such a great gift and not have to do something in return to deserve it! Right?

 

[seekingsolace]

this is not a spiritual gift correct Eternal life would be infact the gift BUT it doesnt say it is guaranteed in this verse? sorry
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

What does receiving the seal of the Holy Spirit promise?

 

[lori milne]

3:24, 5:15,16,17 identifies justification.

you will loose your inheritance !! your not justified until you repent and stop sinning. and clearly their are sins we unknowingly do and knowingly do. both need to be repented of!

1 Corinthians 6:9 Do ye not know that unrighteous persons shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not err: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor those who make women of themselves, nor who abuse themselves with men,

Romans 3:5 But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man)

AGAIN
James 1:16 Do not err, my beloved brethren


My response to your point>
Romans 24 Put it into context
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
(must have faith to obtain GODs imputed righteousness to not be in the FLESH! but in the spirit)


23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
( every one has sinned whether repented of or not )

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
(Justified AFTER the faith and receiving the imputed righteousness to walk after the spirit and not the flesh)

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
(Remission of sins that are past behind you not currently being committed AGAIN the rules are for every MAN including you brethren)



Lastly for backing up my erring from the faith and what happens if you do
Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Luke 8:13
They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.


speaks clearly if you willingly sin their is no sacrifice for sin! OT NT same rules apply even after Jesus!
Numbers 15:22-24
22 And if ye have erred, and not observed all these commandments, which the Lord hath spoken unto Moses,

23 Even all that the Lord hath commanded you by the hand of Moses, from the day that the Lord commanded Moses, and henceforward among your generations;

24 Then it shall be, if ought be committed by ignorance without the knowledge of the congregation, that all the congregation shall offer one young bullock for a burnt offering, for a sweet savour unto the Lord, with his meat offering, and his drink offering, according to the manner, and one kid of the

29 Ye shall have one law for him that sinneth through ignorance, both for him that is born among the children of Israel, and for the stranger that sojourneth among them.

30 But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the Lord; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.


Man with out Faith who err or loose salvation
Matthew 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

James 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;

Isaiah 63:17 O Yahweh, why do you make us to err from your ways, and harden our heart from your fear? Return for your servants' sake, the tribes of your inheritance.

 

[lori milne]

But....but....but....we have to WORK for it! it wouldn't be right to accept such a great gift and not have to do something in return to deserve it! Right?

peter spoke of various trial not because he sinned but because he was flogged instead of killed
Misquoting scripture doesn't help much

Faith produces righteousness GODS imputed righteousness that produces Good works
AMEN!
im not Jewish and i do believe Jesus was the son of GOD
we need to get Pauls letters
straight and maybe we will also understand what he was meaning in regards to circumcised hearts or circumcised flesh!

 

[lori milne]

promise

What does receiving the seal of the Holy Spirit promise?

Ephesians 1:13-20
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory

 

[seekingsolace]

Ephesians 1:13-20
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory

So if God gives you a guarantee, does He go back on His word?

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said this:
"You've still not supported your view or refuted mine from Scripture."

i didnt know what you were speaking of here?

Really? What else was there? Only your view of loss of salvation which has not been supported from Scripture, nor has OSAS been refuted, regardless of the title of this thread.

 

[lori milne]

Ephesians 1:13-20
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory

Gods Promise is sure but their are conditions brethern
it is conditional!

 

[lori milne]

I said this:
"You've still not supported your view or refuted mine from Scripture."

Really? What else was there? Only your view of loss of salvation which has not been supported from Scripture, nor has OSAS been refuted, regardless of the title of this thread.

still not seeing it specifically! since were actually on THAT topic still?
? IStheir something outside of the topic you meant then???
considering your saying im not responding to something what exactly was it?

 

[seekingsolace]

Gods Promise is sure but their are conditions brethern
it is conditional!

If the Holy Spirit indwelling is a promise of redemption. Can you find scripture to support the Holy Spirit not permanently indwelling believers after Pentecost?

 

[lori milne]

So if God gives you a guarantee, does He go back on His word?

Sorry a Promise is Not a guarantee and still doesn't mean their isn't a condition or that we are EXEMPT from any of the Common rules of the bile like what happens when we sin.. you know that sorta thing

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said this:
"6:23 identifies eternal life as a gift of God."

this is not a spiritual gift correct

No, very incorrect. Here's the verse: "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus ourLord."

Is this why all the resistance? Misunderstanding Rom 6:23? Well, hopefully introducing what the verse plainly says will clear up all your misunderstanding.

So, now it should be quite clear that Paul defined eternal life as a free gift of God.

And, the very next time he mentions "gifts" is in 11:29, where he SAID that God's gifts are irrevocable.

How can anyone deny that Paul had included eternal life as an irrevocable gift of God?

Eternal life would be infact the gift BUT it doesnt say it is guaranteed in this verse?

The verse plainly SAYS that God's gifts, which include eternal life, are IRREVOCABLE. I hope that word is familiar to you.

sorry
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

I don't understand what you're sorry for. Maybe your misunderstanding of Rom 6:23.

This verse SAYS that God's gift is eternal life. And Rom 11:29 SAYS that God's gifts are irrevocable.

It is totally illogical to deny that eternal life is revocable, which is your view.

 

[lori milne]

But....but....but....we have to WORK for it! it wouldn't be right to accept such a great gift and not have to do something in return to deserve it! Right?

you cant not have FAITH/Believe and be a christian


Deuteronomy 32:20
And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.

 

[FreeGrace2]

you will loose your inheritance !!

OK. But losing our inheritance isn't losing salvation. We KNOW that because the gift of eternal life is and always WILL BE irrevocable.

your not justified until you repent and stop sinning.

Have you stopped sinning? And what verse makes such a claim? Here is what Scripture DOES SAY about how one is justified:

Acts 13:39 Through Him everyone who believes is justified from everything you could not be justified from by the law of Moses.

Rom 3:22 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference.

Rom 3:24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;

Rom 3:28, 30
28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 30 since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one.

Rom 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,

Rom 5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

Gal 2:16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

Gal 3:8 The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU."

Gal 3:24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.

1 Corinthians 6:9 Do ye not know that unrighteous persons shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not err: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor those who make women of themselves, nor who abuse themselves with men,

Is this an attempt to negate Rom 6:23 with Rom 11:29? Since we KNOW that eternal life is irrevocable, 1 Cor 6:9 CANNOT be speaking of loss of salvation. Or the Bible is contradicted. Never.

My response to your point>
Romans 24 Put it into context
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
(must have faith to obtain GODs imputed righteousness to not be in the FLESH! but in the spirit)

None of this supports your claims, nor refutes mine.

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
( every one has sinned whether repented of or not )

But, what is the point of this?

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
(Justified AFTER the faith and receiving the imputed righteousness to walk after the spirit and not the flesh)

How does this support your claims or refute mine?

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
(Remission of sins that are past behind you not currently being committed AGAIN the rules are for every MAN including you brethren)

I've already addessed this error, that Christ only died for "past sins". v.25 does NOT say what you've misunderstood it to say. btw, this is the ONLY VERSE that you've provided to support your view. How come there aren't any more? Plus all the verses I showed from Hebrews that tells us that Christ died "once for all sins".

Please consider these verses:
Heb 7:27 - Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself.
This is as plain as day.

Heb 10:2 - If it could, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty fortheir sins.
This verse compared the yearly animal sacrifices with Christ's ONCE FOR ALL sacrifice.

1 Pet 3:18 - For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit
Again, as clear as can be. He died for sins ONCE FOR ALL.
Not, once for "past sins".

And where's the verse that speaks of "future sins" that Christ didn't die for?

Luke 8:13
They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

So? What did Jesus mean by "fall away"? The phrase "believe for a while" is the key. Their faith didn't last. There is nothing about loss of salvation here. Or even implied. They "fell away" from their faith when they stopped believing. It's that simple.

There were a lot of verses quoted in your post, but NONE of them SAID anything about loss of salvation.

But as long as one refuses to accept the clear teaching of Paul on eternal life being a gift of God that is irrevocable, I don't see how that one will ever come to the truth.

 

[FreeGrace2]

peter spoke of various trial not because he sinned but because he was flogged instead of killed
Misquoting scripture doesn't help much

That's correct; misquoting Scripture oesn't help much. And your posts are full of misunderstanding of the Scripture that is posted.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Gods Promise is sure but their are conditions brethern
it is conditional!

Please provide a clear verse on our salvation being conditional on anything but believing in Christ.

 

[FreeGrace2]

still not seeing it specifically! since were actually on THAT topic still?
? IStheir something outside of the topic you meant then???
considering your saying im not responding to something what exactly was it?

Seems like just a big dodge of the issue, and not wanting to face it.

 

[lori milne]

That's correct; misquoting Scripture oesn't help much. And your posts are full of misunderstanding of the Scripture that is posted.

show me one

 

[lori milne]

Seems like just a big dodge of the issue, and not wanting to face it.

Just tell me already LOL

 

[lori milne]

OK. But losing our inheritance isn't losing salvation. We KNOW that because the gift of eternal life is and always WILL BE irrevocable.

gift of eternal life is not irrevocable isn't even in the BIBLE

OK you are MIXING versus together to create something else or you've just said it to many times lol?
Romans 11;29 for the gifts and calling of GOD are with out repentance!
what does repentance mean again? hhmm
God doesn't regret giving anything to us or calling us to him!

This doesn't say guaranteed inheritance being irrevocable?
Gifts from GOD according to the bible would be our talent the holy ghost or just his Love being a gift , even his grace
but not eternal life until you receive it then it is a gift, until then it is a promise or hoped for gift.

James 1:17
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom is no ficklenss, neither shadow of turning.

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said to them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

1 Corinthians 12:1-31
Now concerning spiritual gifts, brothers, I would not have you ignorant.
this is clearly explained in the versus 1-31