Rapture ...where is it in the bible?

[Justme]

Without considering the pre, post, mid, or pan of the timing of a rapture, just what in the bible do you use to verify there IS a rapture period?

Personally I do not read a rapture in the bible at all, but many people do so I.m curious what verses lead people in that direction and WHAT really IS this rapture. When I first heard of 'rapture' it was a car emptying instant event taking flesh and blood to ...somewhere, that appears to have changed. ?????????????????

Justme

 

[timewerx]

Apostle Paul's account seem to take place after the tribulation. But only describes "meeting in the air" like welcoming someone, not being whisped elsewhere.

Accounts of Matthew 24 describes the rapture of bad people, not the good ones, and good people left on Earth. It is very clear in the context.

Besides, it would be unfair for good Christians to be raptured, only to have the stuff they left behind enjoyed by bad people.....

But if the bad people are raptured, we get to enjoy their Rolls Royce's, their private jets, their helicopters, their mansions, stealth jets , etc, etc..

 

[Justme]

Apostle Paul's account seem to take place after the tribulation. But only describes "meeting in the air" like welcoming someone, not being whisped elsewhere.

Accounts of Matthew 24 describes the rapture of bad people, not the good ones, and good people left on Earth. It is very clear in the context.

Besides, it would be unfair for good Christians to be raptured, only to have the stuff they left behind enjoyed by bad people.....

But if the bad people are raptured, we get to enjoy their Rolls Royce's, their private jets, their helicopters, their mansions, stealth jets , etc, etc..

Okay, thank you.
I have never seen that 'leaving; our things behind' for the bad guys, before, interesting!!!

 

[cgaviria]

Without considering the pre, post, mid, or pan of the timing of a rapture, just what in the bible do you use to verify there IS a rapture period?

Personally I do not read a rapture in the bible at all, but many people do so I.m curious what verses lead people in that direction and WHAT really IS this rapture. When I first heard of 'rapture' it was a car emptying instant event taking flesh and blood to ...somewhere, that appears to have changed. ?????????????????

Justme

The popular teaching of the "rapture" is a misunderstanding of what will happen at the second coming of Jesus Christ. At HIS coming, happens two things. The first thing is the raising of the dead IN HIM that will be TAKEN UP to meet him in the air. The second thing is, those that are alive, will ALSO BE TAKEN. Taken where? To ALSO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. So the dead IN HIM AND THOSE THAT ARE ALIVE IN HIM WILL BOTH BE TAKEN TO MEET HIM IN THE AIR AT HIS SECOND COMING. It is ONE EVENT. Not a secret rapture years prior and then a second coming.

 

[bigsurfer63]

sorry 2 say…..no where in the bible , its a typical man made protestant theology made up by Cotton Maher / John Darby…..

 

[Wgw]

Without considering the pre, post, mid, or pan of the timing of a rapture, just what in the bible do you use to verify there IS a rapture period?

Personally I do not read a rapture in the bible at all, but many people do so I.m curious what verses lead people in that direction and WHAT really IS this rapture. When I first heard of 'rapture' it was a car emptying instant event taking flesh and blood to ...somewhere, that appears to have changed. ?????????????????

Justme

My understanding is that this doctrine developed from a private revelation that occurred to John Nelson Darby in the 19th century; the Plymouth Brethren adopted this view and it sort of spread from there.

 

[timewerx]

My understanding is that this doctrine developed from a private revelation that occurred to John Nelson Darby in the 19th century; the Plymouth Brethren adopted this view and it sort of spread from there.

Ideas which promote convenience even if there's a chance it is out of context, usually spreads out like wildfire. It's human nature....

But are we suppose to use human nature to guide us in things of the Spirit?

 

[PapaZoom]

I've never been a huge fan of the rapture. And I'm not counting on it. There are so many things we don't fully understand and end-times is one of them. But it's interesting to discuss them and try to sort them out. More important is to focus on what it means to be a follower of Jesus.

 

[Mark51]

1 Corinthians 15:51, 52 is the scripture most often cited. However, I do not agree with its customary interpretation.

The Scriptures plainly teach that some of Christ’s followers have been called to be joint heirs with him in heaven. (Romans 8:16, 17; 2 Timothy 4:18) Now, if Jesus was “made alive in the spirit,” is it not reasonable that his chosen followers destined for heavenly life would also be resurrected as spirits, with spirit bodies suitable for their new environment? (1 Peter 3:18) If that be true, then their fleshly corpses would not be resurrected.

This is exactly what the apostle Paul explained in discussing their resurrection, answering the question: “How are the dead to be raised up? Yes, with what sort of body are they coming?” (1 Corinthians 15:35) Obviously, if their selfsame fleshly bodies were going to be resurrected, there would be no point to that question. Paul explained, in reply, ‘God gives a body just as it pleases him.’ That principle applies to the resurrection of the dead also. Whereas a person lived and died with a “physical body,” what is raised is a “spiritual body.” So those resurrected to heavenly life will not have their fleshly bodies raised any more than did Jesus, who was resurrected “a lifegiving spirit.” In heaven they will have a spirit body, bearing “the image of the heavenly one.” (1 Corinthians 15:36-49) Paul clinches the point with his next statement: “Flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s kingdom, neither does corruption inherit incorruption.” -1 Corinthians 15:50.

So the Biblical evidence shows that the early Christians understood that their resurrection was not dependent on their body’s being preserved. Rather, it was the enemies of Christianity who erroneously believed that. Regarding second-century opposers who executed Christians, ancient historian Eusebius wrote: “The bodies of the martyrs…were at length burned and reduced to ashes by the wretches, and finally cast into the Rhone [River] …. These things they did as if they were able to overcome God, and destroy their resurrection.” These enemies said: “Now we shall see whether they will rise again.”

God’s actions in connection with Jesus and his joint heirs clearly show that Jehovah is not dependent on a preserved human body in order to resurrect a person. So, in regard to the future earthly resurrection in the New Order, Jehovah will be able to “give to each a body just as it pleases Him.”-1 Corinthians 15:38.

 

[Justme]

1 Corinthians 15:51, 52 is the scripture most often cited. However, I do not agree with its customary interpretation.

The Scriptures plainly teach that some of Christ’s followers have been called to be joint heirs with him in heaven. (Romans 8:16, 17; 2 Timothy 4:18) Now, if Jesus was “made alive in the spirit,” is it not reasonable that his chosen followers destined for heavenly life would also be resurrected as spirits, with spirit bodies suitable for their new environment? (1 Peter 3:18) If that be true, then their fleshly corpses would not be resurrected.

This is exactly what the apostle Paul explained in discussing their resurrection, answering the question: “How are the dead to be raised up? Yes, with what sort of body are they coming?” (1 Corinthians 15:35) Obviously, if their selfsame fleshly bodies were going to be resurrected, there would be no point to that question. Paul explained, in reply, ‘God gives a body just as it pleases him.’ That principle applies to the resurrection of the dead also. Whereas a person lived and died with a “physical body,” what is raised is a “spiritual body.” So those resurrected to heavenly life will not have their fleshly bodies raised any more than did Jesus, who was resurrected “a lifegiving spirit.” In heaven they will have a spirit body, bearing “the image of the heavenly one.” (1 Corinthians 15:36-49) Paul clinches the point with his next statement: “Flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s kingdom, neither does corruption inherit incorruption.” -1 Corinthians 15:50.

So the Biblical evidence shows that the early Christians understood that their resurrection was not dependent on their body’s being preserved. Rather, it was the enemies of Christianity who erroneously believed that. Regarding second-century opposers who executed Christians, ancient historian Eusebius wrote: “The bodies of the martyrs…were at length burned and reduced to ashes by the wretches, and finally cast into the Rhone [River] …. These things they did as if they were able to overcome God, and destroy their resurrection.” These enemies said: “Now we shall see whether they will rise again.”

God’s actions in connection with Jesus and his joint heirs clearly show that Jehovah is not dependent on a preserved human body in order to resurrect a person. So, in regard to the future earthly resurrection in the New Order, Jehovah will be able to “give to each a body just as it pleases Him.”-1 Corinthians 15:38.

That would be how I see 1 COR 15:51 and 52 as well. Thanks for your reply.

 

[Justme]

The popular teaching of the "rapture" is a misunderstanding of what will happen at the second coming of Jesus Christ. At HIS coming, happens two things. The first thing is the raising of the dead IN HIM that will be TAKEN UP to meet him in the air. The second thing is, those that are alive, will ALSO BE TAKEN. Taken where? To ALSO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. So the dead IN HIM AND THOSE THAT ARE ALIVE IN HIM WILL BOTH BE TAKEN TO MEET HIM IN THE AIR AT HIS SECOND COMING. It is ONE EVENT. Not a secret rapture years prior and then a second coming.

I missed this...sorry.
I agree with you that the dead in Christ rise first as per 1 Thess 4:16, however, I can't go with 'ALIVE' people going anywhere. They have to die first, dying is a prerequisite to being resurrected. This rapture would require living people to lift off and flesh and blood can not do that , 1 COR 15:50.
I also agree that all these people of the dead in Christ group are said to be taken to be in the cloud in the air. They remain there forever WITH the Lord so that tells me the IN THE AIR is really heaven. That is where the 'caught up' (believers) go as well, to heaven for eternity.
I see this all as one event as far as the end times or the LAST DAY is concerned, but the FIRST resurrection is at the second coming, 1 Thess 4:16 and the REST of the dead or...sleepers .. are raised 1000 years after that, Reve 20:5, which may be a thousands of a second but for sure not 1000 years.. All resurrecting is the LAST day.
As I said I see no need of 'rapture ' period. The people who die BEFORE the coming or the LAST TRUMP are judged and raised at one of two resurrections of the dead and after the last trump people are raised as they are judged righteous at the judgement seat, 2 COR 5:10. That gets all believers to eternal life, what is this 'rapture' for, who could possibly be in it?

Justme
.

 

[havevisions]

I may have interpreted this wrong. I believe the Christians raptured from the earth have bodies with them, but they are new. Scripture seems to be saying to me that the tribulation martyrs are the ones in Rev. 7:9 because they have been resurrected from the earth and can therefore hold the palm branches in their hands, but those in Rev 6 are spirits since they have yet to be resurrected. Although it seems to be a little confusing that there are different "persons" in the heavenly realms in addition to the angels, archangels, elders around the throne, etc.
Yet in Rev 6:11 a white robe was given to them, so do they have bodies?
I may be a little confused.

 

[cgaviria]

I missed this...sorry.
I agree with you that the dead in Christ rise first as per 1 Thess 4:16, however, I can't go with 'ALIVE' people going anywhere. They have to die first, dying is a prerequisite to being resurrected. This rapture would require living people to lift off and flesh and blood can not do that , 1 COR 15:50.
I also agree that all these people of the dead in Christ group are said to be taken to be in the cloud in the air. They remain there forever WITH the Lord so that tells me the IN THE AIR is really heaven. That is where the 'caught up' (believers) go as well, to heaven for eternity.
I see this all as one event as far as the end times or the LAST DAY is concerned, but the FIRST resurrection is at the second coming, 1 Thess 4:16 and the REST of the dead or...sleepers .. are raised 1000 years after that, Reve 20:5, which may be a thousands of a second but for sure not 1000 years.. All resurrecting is the LAST day.
As I said I see no need of 'rapture ' period. The people who die BEFORE the coming or the LAST TRUMP are judged and raised at one of two resurrections of the dead and after the last trump people are raised as they are judged righteous at the judgement seat, 2 COR 5:10. That gets all believers to eternal life, what is this 'rapture' for, who could possibly be in it?

Justme
.

Actually no, in the air does not mean we go to heaven, it is where we will be gathered by angels to meet the Lord in the air. Why are we gathered there? In preparation of the great war against the beastly nations and taking control of the earth. He comes down to setup his earthly kingdom, and we will rule with him here on the earth as immortal beings for 1,000 years.

 

[bigsurfer63]

Actually no, in the air does not mean we go to heaven, it is where we will be gathered by angels to meet the Lord in the air. Why are we gathered there? In preparation of the great war against the beastly nations and taking control of the earth. He comes down to setup his earthly kingdom, and we will rule with him here on the earth as immortal beings for 1,000 years.

again cgavviria………sorry 2 say…..no where in the bible , its a typical man made protestant theology made up by Cotton Maher / John Darby…..

 

[Justme]

Actually no, in the air does not mean we go to heaven, it is where we will be gathered by angels to meet the Lord in the air. Why are we gathered there? In preparation of the great war against the beastly nations and taking control of the earth. He comes down to setup his earthly kingdom, and we will rule with him here on the earth as immortal beings for 1,000 years.

Basically there are only two places believers can be, earth or heaven. If they are raised in 1 Thess 4:16 that pretty much means heaven. Eternity is the location after our temporal life on earth. Heaven pretty well has to be the end destination of the 'caught up' as well because there is nowhere else to go.
Here in Matthew 24 we learn that the gathering of those spirits of the elect who come with Jesus are gathered BEFORE Jesus comes....
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
1 Thess 4:14 further confirms that Jesus brings the dead in Christ with Him.
There is no earthly kingdom unfortunately. The only place this 1000 year thing is mentioned is Rev 20:4 and 6 and it is neither a kingdom nor is it on earth. The participants of the first resurrection are the men of the 1000 year reign and they are not resurrected to earth. That eliminates any earthly reign and for sure there is no kingdom.
The 1000 year reign, heaven or earth is an interesting discussion.
The beastly 'nations' of the great tribulation are the Jews of various nations who rejected the son of God. They are the ones the wrath of God is directed towards. The ones who killed the prophets in the past were represented by the generation of the day. They paid the penalty for all who killed the prophets previously, Matthew 23. No Christian was killed in the great tribulation.

Justme

 

[cgaviria]

Basically there are only two places believers can be, earth or heaven. If they are raised in 1 Thess 4:16 that pretty much means heaven. Eternity is the location after our temporal life on earth. Heaven pretty well has to be the end destination of the 'caught up' as well because there is nowhere else to go.
Here in Matthew 24 we learn that the gathering of those spirits of the elect who come with Jesus are gathered BEFORE Jesus comes....
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
1 Thess 4:14 further confirms that Jesus brings the dead in Christ with Him.
There is no earthly kingdom unfortunately. The only place this 1000 year thing is mentioned is Rev 20:4 and 6 and it is neither a kingdom nor is it on earth. The participants of the first resurrection are the men of the 1000 year reign and they are not resurrected to earth. That eliminates any earthly reign and for sure there is no kingdom.
The 1000 year reign, heaven or earth is an interesting discussion.
The beastly 'nations' of the great tribulation are the Jews of various nations who rejected the son of God. They are the ones the wrath of God is directed towards. The ones who killed the prophets in the past were represented by the generation of the day. They paid the penalty for all who killed the prophets previously, Matthew 23. No Christian was killed in the great tribulation.

Justme

You're mistaken, it has not been appointed for us to go to heaven, but to remain on the earth, and take control of it. The earth is the true promised land, as it has even been said by Jesus, "the meek shall inherit the earth". Why do you suppose Jesus Christ comes back to the earth? Is it just to greet us as we ascend into the air, then we all ride back up to heaven? No, its to take dominion of the earth. He comes to war and destroy nations. He comes to establish his physical kingdom on the earth, and we will rule along with him, in our new immortal bodies. You're misinterpreting scripture, even concerning the beastly nations. There are things that are figurative concerning the scriptures, but then there are things that are literal and will happen. The second coming will happen. The rulership on the earth is also literal. Its not only portrayed in Revelation, these are old prophecies as well.

 

[Justme]

You're mistaken, it has not been appointed for us to go to heaven, but to remain on the earth, and take control of it. The earth is the true promised land, as it has even been said by Jesus, "the meek shall inherit the earth". Why do you suppose Jesus Christ comes back to the earth? Is it just to greet us as we ascend into the air, then we all ride back up to heaven? No, its to take dominion of the earth. He comes to war and destroy nations. He comes to establish his physical kingdom on the earth, and we will rule along with him, in our new immortal bodies. You're misinterpreting scripture, even concerning the beastly nations. There are things that are figurative concerning the scriptures, but then there are things that are literal and will happen. The second coming will happen. The rulership on the earth is also literal. Its not only portrayed in Revelation, these are old prophecies as well.

The meek shall inherit the earth , OR......
10 “Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

11 “Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

I have never seen anything in the bible where it tells me Jesus returns to earth. I see where Jesus returns for each of us believers to take us back to one of the rooms He has prepared in Heaven, but I do not see a return to earth.
Jesus already has all authority over heaven and earth and has had since Matthew wrote this:

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.

I think you will find that God conscripts the Roman army to hand out His wrath to the vile generation. Matthew 23. God orchestrates the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple and has that army do the dirty work, the killing of the vipers in Jerusalem. I'm guessing that is how God doles out His wrath on the unruly of the people who killed the prophets and of course His son.

The PAROUSIA or coming of the Lord immediately after the great trib has happened. The coming for each of us at the moment of our personal death is obviously still future.... a long way future I hope!
Here are the nations of the great tribulations form Acts 2
5 Now there were Jews living in Jerusalem, devout men from every nation under heaven
Here are the articipants of the great tribulation:
Matt 23
34 “Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city, 35 so that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

Lament over Jerusalem
37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. 38 Behold, your house is being left to you desolate! 39 For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’”
The generation is identified here:
Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to His disciples, 2 saying: .................
You mention the kingdom on EARTH thing again... The first resurrection was 2000 years ago at the PAROUSIA and they are the participants of the 1000 year reign WITH Jesus. Jesus has been in heaven so that is where the 1000 year reign is too.

Justme

 

[timewerx]

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Our galaxy has four major arms which looks like a wisp of wind since galaxies look like giant hurricanes in space. The elect will be gathered from all quadrants of the galaxy like we from the alpha quadrant, the Klingons from the beta quadrant..... Just kidding. But seriously, we're talking of the whole galaxy

In fact, you take a picture of a hurricane from space, invert the colors and it will look exactly like a galaxy.

The final resting place will be another planet but that's for another time.

The tribulation is a time of testing. You will be tested if you are worthy of being saved, so no easy shortcuts here.

 

[Justme]

Our galaxy has four major arms which looks like a wisp of wind since galaxies look like giant hurricanes in space. The elect will be gathered from all quadrants of the galaxy like we from the alpha quadrant, the Klingons from the beta quadrant..... Just kidding. But seriously, we're talking of the whole galaxy

In fact, you take a picture of a hurricane from space, invert the colors and it will look exactly like a galaxy.

The final resting place will be another planet but that's for another time.

The tribulation is a time of testing. You will be tested if you are worthy of being saved, so no easy shortcuts here.

Now there is some information from where no man has given it before!

 

[thecolorsblend]

My understanding is that this doctrine developed from a private revelation that occurred to John Nelson Darby in the 19th century; the Plymouth Brethren adopted this view and it sort of spread from there.

Pretty much. It's only when I read the Left Behind series that I realized how silly these Millennialist ideas are.