Rapture happens AFTER Mark of the Beast

Alfred Persson

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Why is it that whenever a passage in Revelation is cited as "the rapture" we never see the raptured church anywhere in the verses??? Where are they?

Although I believe your argument completely refuted by those posting responses to it...its unclear if you mean the absence of the precise wording indicates something...that would be [FONT=&quot]a false dilemma as the more likely reason why "the raptured church" doesn't appear in Revelation[/FONT][FONT=&quot]...is its unscriptural phraseology, not how the apostles talk...its not found in the rest of the New Testament either.
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Prof Walvoord stated the argument differently than you (The Rapture Question, Zondervan, c. 2), he does a word study on the "Meaning of Ecclesia" (church) and correctly notes it has new reference in the NT not found in the OT...to believers in Jesus.

But that is a "no brainer" as Christ wasn't an object of faith in the OT as He is in the New.

So he proved the obvious, and then cites that as proof its absence means the NT church is missing during a time in Revelation...

That's a false dilemma, there are more likely reasons for John not using the word "church", for example, his calling the church "saints (hagios)", which like "church" is found in both the LXX and NT, and like "church" it gained new reference in the NT also to those who believed in Jesus...

It is found in those chapters of the book of Revelation which the absence of "church" is thought to indicate pretribulational rapture...including verses referring to saints going through the tribulation:

LXE Daniel 7:27 And the kingdom and the power and the greatness of the kings that are under the whole heaven were given to the saints(hagios) of the Most High; and his kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all powers shall serve and obey him. (Dan 7:27 LXE)


NKJ Revelation 13:7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints(hagios) and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation.
(Rev 13:7 NKJ)

NKJ Revelation 13:10 He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints(hagios). (Rev 13:10 NKJ)

So its a false dilemma the absence of "church" in a few chapters of revelation, is to be explained by a pretribulational rapture.

To illustrate how false the dilemma is, the word "Israel" disappears after verse 7:4, and doesn't reappear till 21:12...if the dilemma were sound, this means Israel was raptured during that time...but it clearly was not.
 
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LovedofHim

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Oh they are back in chapter 7 around the throne of God.:thumbsup:

AMEN!

They are also in Revelation 12, dwelling in heaven and praising God that the salvation and the Kingdom of God have come at the time when the devil has just been cast down.

They are also in Revelation 19, praising God in heaven, prior to the marriage supper.
 
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