Rape: A Crime Some Women Deserve?

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non-religious

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[marblehead]What's this with fighting against the possibility that sexual attraction plays a part in some rapes?
Is it really that hard to face that a rapist's attraction to the victim may play a part?
I agree.... Come to any city center in England on a Friday or Saturday night and you will be amazed at the drunken stupidity you see both inside and falling out of clubs. It's likened to a meat market where both men and women go out get drunk and sleep around. Slipping pills into the glasses of women whilst they pop to the loo is unfortunately becoming a very common thing. These men are chatting these women up and if they have these pills about their person prior to going in the club they are obviously intent on raping/violating a woman should their advances be rejected. These guys are probably not going into the club and looking for any old bird (excuse the terminology) they would approach someone with whom they are obviously sexually attracted to, kinda goes without question.

The man who lies wait in the alley or who rapes on the spur of the moment is more likely to have a completely different reasoning behind his action. The bottom line being, it's all about power that fact cannot be denied.
 
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D McCloud

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marblehead said:
What's this with fighting against the possibility that sexual attraction plays a part in some rapes?

Is it really that hard to face that a rapist's attraction to the victim may play a part?

It's gateway to blaming the victime even if sexual attraction is a possibility for rape.

I guess it also depends on what aspect of the victim you're referring to when talking about their "sexual attraction". Certainly I don't think you can blame the victim for having attractive physical attributes or for the clothes they wear. Therefore, what's the point of even bringing it up if not to ultimately blame the victim?

The way I see it, people bring up "sexual attraction" when talking about rape so they can have it both ways:
1. Point out and condem the percieved defects within the victim
2 Condemn the rapist
3. And at the same time ignore the real problem which lies in societies perception of women. Not the qualities of the women raped.

If you think about it, it's really a brilliant ideology specifically designed to change society's victim and not society. However, this is what makes this form of blaming the victim hard to detect, and so much different than old-fashioned conservative ideologies.
 
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non-religious

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[D McCloud]It's gateway to blaming the victime even if sexual attraction is a possibility for rape.
Physical attraction of course is not always the case, but there are many instances where it has been a (as in one of) contributing factor. I have previously stated that women in Islamic communities who are completely covered are still victims of rape. In those very instances appearance plays no part. Men get raped in prison by hetrosexual attackers, it has absolutely nothing to do appearance and everything to do with power, fear, submission etc... Men accused of rape will invariably use any and every tactic in the book to try and undermine the credibility and character of the victim, there's nothing new in that. So this gateway exists already, unfortunately.
 
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fatpie42

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wanderingone said:
The site doesn't contradict itself, it tells you it's not a primary factor and it's not about how women look to the rapist, in terms of women being responsible for their own assault (going all the way back to the topic title of women deserving rape) because they dress in a way that "turns men on" sexually or act in such a way that men "can't help" but act on their sexual urges is repeatedly documented as an invalid theory on why rape occurs.

Rapist may be "sexually attracted" to women for a million reasons.. it's not (as you said) the cause of the rape. That rapists have sexual attractions is probably fairly obvious, they're human, that sexual attraction is the cause of a rape and therefore women who are somehow sexually appealing are responsible for their own rapes is where the misunderstanding comes in. People think somehow that rape wouldn't occur if somehow rapists weren't sexually attracted to the women they rape, and then immediately dissect what a woman was wearing, saying, doing, at the time the assault occurred.

I agree with you entirely. You've put it very clearly (my clarity is probably a bit on the rubbish side because: firstly I'm a bit disturbed by the topic, and secondly I'm not an expert on the subject).

I never said the site contradicted itself. I made it very clear that this site DIDN'T contradict itself and therefore sexual attraction IS a minor influence. The major influence, however, is the power trip thing and as a result no one can say "well all the girls I know are good girls who don't dress provocatively, so they are safe".
 
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fatpie42

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non-religious said:
Physical attraction of course is not always the case, but there are many instances where it has been a (as in one of) contributing factor. I have previously stated that women in Islamic communities who are completely covered are still victims of rape. In those very instances appearance plays no part. Men get raped in prison by hetrosexual attackers, it has absolutely nothing to do appearance and everything to do with power, fear, submission etc... Men accused of rape will invariably use any and every tactic in the book to try and undermine the credibility and character of the victim, there's nothing new in that. So this gateway exists already, unfortunately.

I think they are going to ask you for evidence now. Thankfully you sound intelligent, reasonable and knowledgeable enough to provide it. Do you know of any links on the internet to back you up, or anything you can cite as evidence? I know it's petty but the precedent for making unreasonable claims was started by prophetable so now no one is trusting anyone unless they have a viable source for their info. (I wonder whether your real life examples of people drugging girls counts as evidence?)
 
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Prophetable

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fatpie42 said:
I know it's petty but the precedent for making unreasonable claims was started by prophetable so now no one is trusting anyone unless they have a viable source for their info. (I wonder whether your real life examples of people drugging girls counts as evidence?)

Commonsense is not unreasonable. Requiring "statistics" to understand something that requires only common sense is.

Sexual Desire is involved in rape. It must be in order to produce Sexual arousal.

Different people are attracted by different things. Nevertheless if people can't concede that Provocative Dress can contribute to higher chances of being raped then they are demonstrating ignorance.

Even the site quoted said that sexual attraction may be a factor. How quaint that they only used the word may.
 
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KCDAD

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Prophetable said:
Hrmmm, weird.

So anyway, you then admit that clothing can be a contributing factor :D

:doh: ugh... yes clothing can be a contributing factor to sexual desire... but not to the act of rape. Rape is NOT about sex. Rape can be committed with anything (including a penis) and anywhere, not just a vagina. Is that plain - speak enough for you?
 
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Prophetable

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KCDAD said:
:doh: ugh... yes clothing can be a contributing factor to sexual desire... but not to the act of rape. Rape is NOT about sex. Rape can be committed with anything (including a penis) and anywhere, not just a vagina. Is that plain - speak enough for you?

Okay, let's make it easy so that even a 2-year old can understand, ok?


Clothing can be a contributing factor to sexual desire. You admitted this.

Sexual Desire certainly is a part of rape.

So go figure Einstein.
 
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fillerbunny

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Prophetable said:
Okay, let's make it easy so that even a 2-year old can understand, ok?


Clothing can be a contributing factor to sexual desire. You admitted this.


Fine. Fair enough.

Sexual Desire certainly is a part of rape.

No. You state this like it's fact (once again, without providing a single shred of evidence supporting your claim), but it's clearly not.

Do you honestly believe sexual desire is a factor in prison rape? How about men who rape little old ladies.. or those who rape infants?

Sexual desire is most certainly not certainly a part of rape.

So go figure Einstein.

Reputable sources serve to further arguments. Petty insults do not.
 
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KCDAD

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Prophetable said:
Sexual Desire certainly is a part of rape.
/quote]

One of my favorite albums is Thick as a Brick... I think by Pink Floyd.

OK, I concede... sexual desire is a part of rape... and so is a minimum of two people... however finding causality in the "two people" theory is as likely as in the "sexual desire" theory.
 
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fillerbunny said:
Do you honestly believe sexual desire is a factor in prison rape? How about men who rape little old ladies.. or those who rape infants?

Sexual desire is most certainly not certainly a part of rape.
True, sometimes it's purely just to hurt and hold power over someone.

I think the problem is with those that are saying it doesn't play a part at all.

Sexual desire can be sadistic, not just your average sex.
Some rapist's don't do it because they think the person is good looking and others it might play a big part in the choice of victim.
 
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non-religious

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[marblehead]True, sometimes it's purely just to hurt and hold power over someone.

I think the problem is with those that are saying it doesn't play a part at all.

Sexual desire can be sadistic, not just your average sex.
Some rapist's don't do it because they think the person is good looking and others it might play a big part in the choice of victim.
Again I agree.... No-body can categorically claim that some percentage of all the rapes ever committed hasn't involved physical attraction, to suggest so is both woefully ignorant and just plainly burying ones head in the sand becos it's obvious that it does. Not in all cases as I have previously stated (islamic/prison etc..) but there are some instances where it does and has. That is not the blame of the victim obviously....
 
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KCDAD

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non-religious said:
Again I agree.... No-body can categorically claim that some percentage of all the rapes ever committed hasn't involved physical attraction,[/quote]

Rape also involves breathing and perspiration but they are not factors in considering the CAUSE or motivation of rape!!!!!!
 
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k

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Prophetable said:
Okay, let's make it easy so that even a 2-year old can understand, ok?


Clothing can be a contributing factor to sexual desire. You admitted this.

Sexual Desire certainly is a part of rape.

So go figure Einstein.

Link after link has been presented demonstrating why sexual desire is NOT a component of rape. Therefore, both premises are completely inapplicable.
 
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