Rape: A Crime Some Women Deserve?

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KCDAD

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fatpie42 said:
How is someone's position on abortion an element of faith. Abortion isn't mentioned in the Bible, never mind posed as an 'element of faith'.

It is all based on how one defines "life". Whether it is genetic, anatomical, brainwaves, breath or heartbeat... all these have different impacts on how one views abortion.
 
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Prophetable said:
All being said, I'm glad that people can acknowledge that immodest/provocative dress can be a contributing factor in Rape. I've maintained this point throughout without acknowledgement until now.

Perhaps the issue of dress modesty should be discussed in a different thread.

Women are never at fault for being beautiful.
Certainly women don't deserved to be "raped" as just punishment for wearing sexually alluring attire. However such provocative dress in public is moral fault in itself.
Therefore we should all be responsible in how we dress. :wave:
Kind of a fallible theory

It doesnt explain the rape of old ladies, I dont see any over 60 year olds wearing alluring and immodest clothing but they still get raped



a theory that interestingly enough is always put foward by males yay for the joys of living in a patriarcal society
 
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KCDAD

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fatpie42 said:
Not all rapists have the kind of mentality you are describing. If someone is using date-rape drugs, there is a possibility that it is because they are attracted to the girl but don't think she will go the whole way.

I think we might need to concede that there are SOME rapists who rape because of sexual attraction.....

No. You are wrong. Unfortunately or not, rape is not predicated by attraction to the person but to self.

Sexual attraction is an excuse, not a motivation.
 
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fatpie42

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KCDAD said:
No. You are wrong. Unfortunately or not, rape is not predicated by attraction to the person but to self.

Sexual attraction is an excuse, not a motivation.

Um... let me try and translate this, because it seems to me that there is a very obvious clue to suggest that in the 'date rape drug' case they actually were attracted to the victim: the fact that they were on a date!

The motivating factor for being on a date is that they are attracted to the girl, but the motivating factor for raping them is power? This doesn't seem to add up properly. Surely the small proportion of rapes that are 'date rapes' are an exception to this 'power-trip' idea?
 
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tgg

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christalee4 said:
http://www.christianforums.com/t2853915-rape-probe-grounds-dukes-lacrosse-team.html#post23062979

http://www.newsobserver.com/102/story/422462.html

I know everyone has seen the story about this crime, but few want to talk about it. What galls me is why all 40-something members of this sports team have chosen to be silent about the crime now. In fact, it makes me sick, in light of the racial abuse hurled at not only the victim, but also at another black young woman passing by the frat house.

Do people think that the victim, because of her job as a stripper, deserves violent rape and abuse?

I am beginning to think that people do think that. And that is horrible. Each and every member of that lacrosse team needs to be questioned about their compliance in what happened.

I hadn't heard about this up until now, mainly because I don't live in America.

But if you want my opinion on this, I am angry and disgusted with all the members of the lacrosse team. I hope they get sent to the electric chair.

Regardless of their professions as a senator, a secretary or a stripper, NO woman should have to endure any form of rape or harassment. I'm furious that even in these enlightened times of the 21st century such barbaric behaviour is still being aided and abetted by misogynists.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
 
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tgg

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Lilly of the Valley said:
If you walk around in very inappropriate clothing and entice men and then one rapes you after wards...you have some responsibility and you made yourself susceptible as well. Why do you think God encourages modesty...for fun?
Lily of the Valley,

You sound like you've got a lot of growing up to do, and damned fast before you could be the victim of rape and might think differently to the garbage you have posted on here.
 
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tgg said:
But if you want my opinion on this, I am angry and disgusted with all the members of the lacrosse team. I hope they get sent to the electric chair.....I'm furious that even in these enlightened times of the 21st century such barbaric behaviour is still being aided and abetted by misogynists.
Really, everyone is so quick to judge on this case.

Remember that this is all just alleged. The alleged rapists haven't been proven guilty. The alleged rape has not been proven to have happened.

What's really barbaric is to hope people who have not been found guilty get sent to an electric chair because we may not like them or the way they behave.
 
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Prophetable said:
To say provocative dress never contributes towards rape you would have to be God. You would have to know everything. I don't see how the conclusion could be stated otherwise(Except of course through political correct brainwashing).

I'd also like to add that the Rugby tackle, Kicking the Homeless guy examples, etc, should be rated R - for Ridiculous. Such satire doesn't do any damage to common sense.

Everybody knows that people dress up to attract the opposite sex. Hence, sexual desire is increased. To say such Sexual desire being increased in say a Serial Rapist won't increase the chance of the criminal raping someone is therefore silly.

I asked if someone could please explain in their own reasonable words why provocative dress would not contribute towards increased chance of rape.

I'd rather think about things rather than just accept politically correct dogma.

The reason manner of dress does not contribute is because rape is all about power, and sex is just the accidental tool that is the most invasive and available.



Also, there's nothing more hypocritical than christian believers who will applaude Secular Experts as being infallible in one area, whilst believing they are wrong in others that contend with their faith.

When has ANYONE here said ANY human is infallible?

Mmm....how do we know what authors/people are or are not Christian? Or, are they being labeled as "Secular" because they present differing views?

Sounds like the OReilly approach: if they do not agree with me then they are not Christian.
 
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Prophetable said:
Are you saying that the Rapists aren't sexually attracted to any of these victims? How do you know this?

There has been much info provided on this thread and it is worth doing research beyond what we merely believe.

They may be sexually attracted, but not in the traditional manner. For rapists, their "sexual attraction" is to be in complete control over another person.
 
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Prophetable

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There are diverse ways one individual can exercise power and control over others without raping them. Rape involves sexual activity. Rapists need to be sexually aroused in order to engage in this.

I believe the "experts "are biased by:

A) Fear that Rapists won't be sufficiently punished.

B) A belief that there is nothing wrong with provocative dress.
 
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SallyNow

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KCDAD said:
By rape statistics and research. You have to understand the thought procecss behind rape... there is no romance or love or fondness or liking of the OBJECT. There is only self pleasing (The pleasure in not in the sex act or [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] but in the exercise of power.) It is about taking by force that which is not willingly given. Sex is only the tool or weapon.

People don't rape or destroy that which they find attractive or beautiful... there is nothing but hatred and disgust felt for the OBJECT.
Don't confuse rape with playing sexual games with a partner in which one "fantasizes" a rape-like scenario.

Ah, but see, here we are expecting people to read and listen and accept things like facts, evidence, studies, research, statistics, supported theories, etc.

For some, it may just be easier to blame the victim - it makes society less scary, it allows control over those who are potential victims, it allows for freedoms to be taken away from victims in an effort to make society "safer", rather than actually dealing with the tough issues of how to prevent rapists from becoming rapists.

Some more evidence that rape is about power, that it is never the victim's fault, and that anyone can be a victim of rape:
http://www.sacsheriff.com/crime_prevention/documents/sexual_assault_01.cfm
http://kidshealth.org/teen/your_mind/problems/rape_what_to_do.html
http://www.warchild.ca/rocked_slavery.asp

Prophetable said:
There are diverse ways one individual can exercise power and control over others without raping them. Rape involves sexual activity. Rapists need to be sexually aroused in order to engage in this.

I believe the "experts "are biased by:

A) Fear that Rapists won't be sufficiently punished.

B) A belief that there is nothing wrong with provocative dress.

And yet every shred of evidence points to the exact opposite: That researchers, sociologists, police, lawyers, doctors, psychiatrists, and psychologists are after the truth about rape. There is no evidence that says the experts are in any way biased by the things you mentioned.

May I ask that instead of posteres making nasty accusations against those knowledgable in the subject at hand, instead posters show some evidence to back up claims that rape is not the perps fault, as is accepted by the social sciences and the law, but instead, that rape is the victim's fault, a claim that has shown to have nothing but opinion to back it up?
 
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Prophetable said:
There are diverse ways one individual can exercise power and control over others without raping them. Rape involves sexual activity. Rapists need to be sexually aroused in order to engage in this.

I believe the "experts "are biased by:

A) Fear that Rapists won't be sufficiently punished.

B) A belief that there is nothing wrong with provocative dress.

Yes, their sexual organs need to be functioning but that does not mean THEIR sexual arousal is what we would call normal or healthy. THEIR sexual arousal is NOT based in sex, but POWER.

You know what, a LOT of us have provided info from several sources and it keeps getting ignored.

Why waste the time if this is not going to be taken seriously?
 
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Prophetable said:
There are diverse ways one individual can exercise power and control over others without raping them. Rape involves sexual activity. Rapists need to be sexually aroused in order to engage in this.

How can you say with such certainty that it's the victim they're aroused by (or their manner of dress) and not the power, the control, the violence, or the prospect of raping them? Do you have any sources to support this claim?

I believe the "experts "are biased by:

A) Fear that Rapists won't be sufficiently punished.

B) A belief that there is nothing wrong with provocative dress.

Alright, fair enough. You're entitled to your opinion. However, unless said opinion can be supported with evidence, it will continue to be viewed as just that.. your opinion. (Which, incidentally, doesn't seem to be particularly supported by the reality of things.)
 
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Prophetable

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SallyNow said:
Ah, but see, here we are expecting people to read and listen and accept things like facts, evidence, studies, research, statistics, supported theories, etc.

Studies are useful but not infallible.
We're partially conducting one now. :)
We don't have all the facts of every rape commited with all of the details including the rapists thoughts and motives. For this reason statistics are also far from conclusive. But hey, no problems! The experts can fill in the gaps with their own bias and opinion. Then even better, they can team up and call it "supported theories". :D


SallyNow said:
For some, it may just be easier to blame the victim -

For rapists certainly, but to assert that all people arguing contrary to your view are in this category is over the top. Personally, I'm trying to be objective about this topic.
 
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Prophetable

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Neverstop said:
Yes, their sexual organs need to be functioning but that does not mean THEIR sexual arousal is what we would call normal or healthy. THEIR sexual arousal is NOT based in sex, but POWER.

You know what, a LOT of us have provided info from several sources and it keeps getting ignored.

Why waste the time if this is not going to be taken seriously?


Okay, show me one piece of evidence that demonstrates that Provocative Dress can never contribute towards rape. Just one please. With all of you various sources you should be able to do this quickly and easily.
 
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Prophetable

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fillerbunny said:
How can you say with such certainty that it's the victim they're aroused by (or their manner of dress) and not the power, the control, the violence, or the prospect of raping them? Do you have any sources to support this claim?

I've never stated that power, control, violence, etc, aren't factors. The burden of proof is upon you however to proove that Sexual desire isn't as well.


fillerbunny said:
Alright, fair enough. You're entitled to your opinion. However, unless said opinion can be supported with evidence, it will continue to be viewed as just that.. your opinion. (Which, incidentally, doesn't seem to be particularly supported by the reality of things.)

Which reality of things? That Sex isn't a part of rape???
 
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Prophetable said:
Okay, show me one piece of evidence that demonstrates that Provocative Dress can never contribute towards rape. Just one please. With all of you various sources you should be able to do this quickly and easily.

The point is being missed for umpteenth time...manner of dress does not factor into rape because it is about power.


This relentless pursuit of finding some sliver to blame the victim literally has me nauseated and I have to take a break from this thread.
 
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SallyNow

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Prophetable said:
Studies are useful but not infallible.
We're partially conducting one now. :)
We don't have all the facts of every rape commited with all of the details including the rapists thoughts and motives. For this reason statistics are also far from conclusive. But hey, no problems! The experts can fill in the gaps with their own bias and opinion. Then even better, they can team up and call it "supported theories". :D

We are in no way conducting a study. We are conducting an internet debate. A scientific study is this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method

Statstics that are gathered by statiticians and researchers are not man-on-the-street are not studies nor do they produce scientific statistical results.

And, every study presented as shown that blame of rape is not to be blamed on the victim, but instead, on the perp, and often on the society that supports the perp.

Sociologists, doctors, psychiatrists, police, etc, perform studies, research, and fact gathering, and they admit their biases in their findings. And because biases are so diverse, the studies, facts, and other findings presented have shown and supported the fact the rape is the perp's fault.

Internet discussion is far from scientific research. I can understand, however, that if someone thinks internet discussions are akin to reliable research they will think that research may be tainted and unreliable.

For rapists certainly, but to assert that all people arguing contrary to your view are in this category is over the top. Personally, I'm trying to be objective about this topic.

And so is everyone else, which is why there is so much evidence being presented by the side that says "rape is the fault of the perp".

To, on the one hand, claim social scientists, police, and other professionals who are knowledgable in the subject are baised to the point of their information being irrelavent, while on the other hand claiming to be objective, is sort of, well, strange.

Let me try this analogy:

Carl, 26, is walking down a busy city street, dressed well in a business suit, has a briefcase, and is off to his first day as a junior accountant. However, as he is turning the corner, two men jump him, tackle him to the ground, and beat him up.

When the two suspects are arrested, they are asking why they attacked Carl. They reply, "because he was an African American in a suit. He must have stole it, and we were just so angry seeing a black man taking something that belongs to a white guy that we had to beat him up!".

Now, in truth, as we already know, Carl was just a normal guy walking to his job. He has stolen nothing. But he was beaten. Was it his fault that the men were angry? No. Was it his fault he was beaten? No.

So why then, if it is not Carl's fault that he was beaten, it is Anne's fault when she is raped?

Of course, the answer is that neither Carl nor Anne are responsible for being attacked. They were simply going about their lives. It is the suspects that are to blame for the attacks.
 
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Prophetable

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Neverstop said:
The point is being missed for umpteenth time...manner of dress does not factor into rape because it is about power.


This relentless pursuit of finding some sliver to blame the victim literally has me nauseated and I have to take a break from this thread.

As I thought. With all of the various links and resources you can't provide one piece of evidence to denounce my argument.
 
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